Nothing about ergonomic (mechanical) keyboard ?

[Jim66]

If you are used to touch typing, the "B" is going to give you trouble, it is traditionally on the left hand.



I know that there are loads of keys where there are not supposed to be in that picture, but I thought you would have kept the left-right hand touch typing split?

Any updates on this?

[Findecanor]

If you are used to touch typing, the "B" is going to give you trouble, it is traditionally on the left hand.

I am not a touch typist, and I have been typing B with either hand in different circumstances. The 6 key is pressed by either hand according to different schools of touch typing. Therefore, these keys are going on both halves for now.

Any updates on this?

I made another mockup from cut-up MY switches and key caps of only two heights, and I have been evaluating that.

I had been thinking of making the key layout with vertical staggering and with columns symmetric to the left and right of the middle (finger) column so that I could use the same PCB layout for both left and right hands to save costs, but I have scrapped that idea. The hand tends to rotate so that the columns get worse than on a staggered keyboard. The pinky column really needs to be a bit more offset from the ring finger column, even if there is a height difference. Also, I should not stagger the index finger columns.

I am a bit at a conundrum, though. Because I am not a touch-typist, maybe I should not force myself into a layout that is too strict. Also, I think that I may be conditioned to a certain tactile response from the key caps that is lost if I rotate them into straight columns. I am thinking of going back to staggering the rows a bit, but keeping what I have learned about curves, key placement and key-press vectors. I also need to adjust switch placement if the switches are in a plane but the keys themselves are curved.

[Findecanor]

The very tall keys would be a concern of mine. I can see that being a possible issue.

I bought a Kinesis Advantage (from Jim66. Thanks again!) which has Cherry MX brown, and I noticed that the tallest key is ~14 mm high. That is ~8 mm higher than the very shortest Cherry MX-compatible keys (Tipro w/o lid), and just about the height difference that I have in my design. Wobble is not that much of problem with the tall key, but friction on off-center key presses is.

[webwit]

Pre-order delivery will follow as our primary goal is to bring our line of products to market as soon as possible. We are currently estimating delivery during late August 2011.

We're getting close to the newest excuse! Wagering will start now, some possible choices are:

We have experienced further manufacturing hurdles which were out of our hands.

During testing we experienced some difficulties, we want the perfect keyboard for you, so we are currently addressing these problems.

Venus passed behind the Sun and was visible in the night sky, which caused an uproar among squirrels, and the consequential raid of our production line.

Feel free to add other excuses.

[Minskleip]

PMS haha

[Jim66]

Lol, I'm gonna say it's almost certainly going to be the second one.

[sordna]

It's interesting that one of their photos shows black and red cherry MX switches, even though they officially only offer browns and blues

[sordna]

TrulyErgonomic updated their website, it says they'll take preorders till August 31st. After that the price goes up by $50. They *estimate* they will be accepting regular orders in October. It's unclear when the preorders will ship though, last time they promised late August, now the blog says they are "about to manufacture" ...

I noticed a new photo that's actually nice:



For sure the international "109" key model is better regardless of anyone's location, it has 88 keys. The "104" and "105" models only have 84 keys. The number of keys are not mentioned in the website, you have to count them looking at the pictures

[Input Nirvana]

Hey, $200 til Aug 31 and $250 after Aug 31? Isn't that like $50 more expensive than they were before?

I have an issue with their "healthy - healthier - healthiest" graphic on their website. Their board seems to be mechanically LESS, but they claim it is BETTER. I want some form of explanation. Not even proof, just some attempt at justification. I'll concern myself with proof later. I thought it was a board to consider when it was $150 and on-time over 6-8 months ago. Now I'm a bit cranky and not so warm and cuddly.

[fossala]

I love this image.

It makes it look like they have shipped all over the world when in fact it couldn't be further than the truth.

[Input Nirvana]

Tacky

I can hear them now: "We WILL be shipping to these locations...AND EVEN MORE WE'RE NOT EVEN SHOWING YET!

My friends 13 year old does similar projects for fun. But he uses better graphics.

[kbdfr]

I love this image.

It makes it look like they have shipped all over the world when in fact it couldn't be further than the truth.

Even the picture makes it look further than the truth.
I doubt they would ship eastwards to at least Australia and Japan, westwards being much shorter:

[cactux]

[Account and posts deleted on request]

[sordna]

Same holds for almost keyboard, different rows have different profiles, the TE is no different.
Besides, once you learn a layout, you don't really need the lettering, I type Dvorak on a QWERTY lettered keyboard.

[hoggy]

Hey, $200 til Aug 31 and $250 after Aug 31? Isn't that like $50 more expensive than they were before?

I have an issue with their "healthy - healthier - healthiest" graphic on their website. Their board seems to be mechanically LESS, but they claim it is BETTER. I want some form of explanation. Not even proof, just some attempt at justification. I'll concern myself with proof later. I thought it was a board to consider when it was $150 and on-time over 6-8 months ago. Now I'm a bit cranky and not so warm and cuddly.

The sellers of the safetype keyboard had the guts to publish a study that is vaguely complementary - in fact it points out a major flaw. (probably few of their customers read it before buying one) Let's face it - TE haven't done anything like it. Calling it healthier than a datahand is ... tosh.

[webwit]

The DataHand research is even better. You can find the percentage there of test subjects who didn't like it for example.
http://www.datahand.com/studies/briefsum.htm

[Input Nirvana]

Information from people not satisfied with product testing is where much of the refining and dialing in of products come from. From the pickiest and least flexible sources comes the real 'crush test'.

Pretty ballsy to publish...shows they are data/research people, not marketeers. Maybe that's a contributing reason for their current state

[webwit]

So DataHand developed and proved their product by using large test groups and analyzing their experiences and opinions. Where's Truly Ergonomic's research? In that light, it's pretty hilarious he claims its better than keyboards such as the DataHand or Kinesis.

It was easy for them to release research... the results were pretty good. There are some more elaborate PDFs around too, but I couldn't locate them quickly. Maybe they are on the CD, I'll have to check later. Pretty interesting stuff. I don't think honest research hurt their marketing, in fact it's pretty good marketing. I think they tried everything, but they inherently had no chance just like all the other ergo keyboards in the nineties RSI craze. Same still applies to the Truly Ergonomic. Even if he makes it to market, it has almost no chance on the long run. His only chance is a continuing demand from the class of users who want something marketed as an ergonomic solution, but not a keyboard that scares them, i.e. they don't want a real ergonomic solution, or they want it but want to be lazy at the same time.

[Input Nirvana]

I am backing down from my statement that Datahand may be in trouble because they are researchers not marketers. I was trying to highlight that as a company they really hit the scene from the scientific aspect as opposed to selling a glitzy box. In the same context, publishing research that shows good and bad verses TE that claims all good and no bad. Of course at this point in time it happens to be all lies.

So far TE has shown every sign of an internet scam, or a desperate company on the verge of their 2 person collapse. I should do so well to have as much buzz as they do...

[hoggy]

I love this image.

It makes it look like they have shipped all over the world when in fact it couldn't be further than the truth.

Erm... I've (actually) shipped keyboards to some of those locations - and with better coverage of Europe too...

[webwit]

They deliver at night! In fact looks like Doomsday, the entire planet is covered in darkness. Truly Ergonomic truly has a pessimist future world view. Luckily this is fiction, and about the far future.

[hoggy]

Agreed, must be fiction, there's no way they've shipped 8 keyboards.

[Input Nirvana]

You guys are brutal!

I love it

[ripster]

This customer loyalty to the product category shows why so few ergonomic keyboards are brought to market.

[itlnstln]

People are remarkably adverse to change. I think this is why a lot of "ergonomic" keyboards fail regardless to how hard they try to keep a familiar layout. While I'm sure price is the number one factor, the Datahand is a wild departure from traditional keyboarding which I'm sure turns a lot of people off. To me, though, this would be the number one reason to get a DH.

I thrive on change. It makes the world interesting.

[sordna]

Yeah, as much as I complain sometimes that the Kinesis Advantage should be split in two halves, or angled more so the hands are closer to vertical, stuff like that would make even fewer folks buy it even though it would make it ergonomically better.
Folks don't know what's good for them, yet they happily spend $400 for stuff like keyboards with aluminum cases thinking they are oh so cool, and they don't care or realize how ridiculous the staggered positioning of the keys are. Every aspect of the 1860's typewriter has changed except the stupid staggering which continues to lives on, even in touchscreen tablets.
YUCK!

[webwit]

It lives on, while Apple bought much of its touchscreen software technology by acquiring Fingerworks, which made multi-gesture touchpad/keyboards like this:

[sordna]

Ah, the TouchStream, matrix layout too (not staggered). Too bad it's discontinued. Now we must put our hopes on TrulyErgonomic to see the next straight column keyboard in the market.
It doesn't look very promising though:

[webwit]

The TouchStream was ahead of its time. It has a matrix of sensors underneath, and you can pretty much program your own touches and combos with that. One of the most interesting and smart things was the "drifting" feature. If you place your finger on the homerow and start typing, and your hand drifts from the original position without you noticing, the software was smart enough to cope with it, and look how the movements relate to the current position of the hand. You could have your pinky on A first, drift a bit to the left, move up your pinky to hit Q, don't hit it, and still get Q. And it works.

[sordna]

TrulyErgonomic stopped taking preorders, you can only sign up to be notified when the keyboard becomes available. Interestingly, they have added a "special order" model with red MX switches: