As many of you, I am also interested in trying different layouts. But my reasons may be a little different from yours.
I am not going to talk about the advantages and disadvantages that a different layout may have over typing speed and comfort as these were discussed previously.
I would like to expand the topic into the medical advantages and disadvantages of different layouts and keyboard shapes.
I hope you would not mind!
The reason for this is that I have constant pain in my right wrist as I sprained it 3 times (bicycle and snowboard crashes). I am also prone to develop Synovial Cysts (ganglion cysts) in bots of my hands, which cause the pain to become unbearable if I keep my hands in one position for longer periods of time (sleeping, typing, etc).
I have slowly come to realize, as many of you already have, that the QWERTY layout is slightly inefficient. But I also think that, for me at least, most keyboards are inherently inefficient because of their shape, with the key rows being parallel right in front of me, forcing my hands into an unnatural positions for extended periods of time. I know that there are keyboards that cater to this (e.g. the Ergodox) but I love more the way a normal keyboard looks, that's why I haven't moved to a split design
Because of the above, I wonder if a layout with modifiers in 2 columns in the center of the keyboard and the alpha-numeric on each side of the modifiers would be more useful and more comfortable to use.
What do you think it would be a good layout for avoiding medical issues (like Carpal Tunnel)?
P.S. I haven't read thoroughly all you posts until now (work first) and If I'm rambling, please tell me and I'll crawl back into my hole
P.P.S.: if any of you have wrist pains and/or ganglion cysts, there is the Apireven cream which has helped me alot and even helped me stay away from surgery (in pharmacies here costs 5 euro)
Debunking a legend about languages and keyboard layouts
- scottc
- ☃
- Location: Remote locations in Europe
- Main keyboard: GH60-HASRO 62g Nixies, HHKB Pro1 HS, Novatouch
- Main mouse: Steelseries Rival 300
- Favorite switch: Nixdorf 'Soft Touch' MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
derzemel - that's a huge coincidence. I just developed my first ganglion cyst in my left wrist a couple of weeks ago, and had it diagnosed just yesterday. I also have a condition called Still's Disease which includes rheumatoid arthritis that emerged when I was 17.
What I do right now is just swap between form factors. I find that swapping between my 60% HHKB and a larger board (eg. my Cherry G80-1800 or a TKL-sized board like my IBM SSK) alleviates some of the hand cramping.
I also recently tried out Colemak for the first time. It was amazing! I was still really very slow with it, but it feels so much more comfortable and less straining on my hands. I'd definitely recommend checking it out. It seems to avoid lots of the problems I have with alternative layouts like Dvorak since it keeps zxcv, and a in the same position as a QWERTY keyboard for keyboard shortcuts. I don't know how it will be for Vim, which is my only worry... I know that alinh uses Colemak and Vim though so it can't be too bad.
Thanks a lot for the medicine for the ganglion cysts, by the way. It's been causing me a large amount of discomfort in the past few weeks and it would be great to find a way to ease it.
What I do right now is just swap between form factors. I find that swapping between my 60% HHKB and a larger board (eg. my Cherry G80-1800 or a TKL-sized board like my IBM SSK) alleviates some of the hand cramping.
I also recently tried out Colemak for the first time. It was amazing! I was still really very slow with it, but it feels so much more comfortable and less straining on my hands. I'd definitely recommend checking it out. It seems to avoid lots of the problems I have with alternative layouts like Dvorak since it keeps zxcv, and a in the same position as a QWERTY keyboard for keyboard shortcuts. I don't know how it will be for Vim, which is my only worry... I know that alinh uses Colemak and Vim though so it can't be too bad.
Thanks a lot for the medicine for the ganglion cysts, by the way. It's been causing me a large amount of discomfort in the past few weeks and it would be great to find a way to ease it.
- derzemel
- Location: Bucharest, Romania
- Main keyboard: FC660C, SSK, TX-1800 Nixie
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 7000
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCL/SKCM tactile
For the cyst on my left hand I used the "remedy" that was presented on the wikipedia article: I smacked it hard with a big book (A Song of Ice and Fire: A dance with Dragons, hardback, in case you are wondering).scottc wrote: ↑Thanks a lot for the medicine for the ganglion cysts, by the way. It's been causing me a large amount of discomfort in the past few weeks and it would be great to find a way to ease it.
I know this sounds horrible, but, hey, it worked. The cyst broke inside my wrist and I had a strange sensation for about half an hour, until the synovial liquid present in the cyst was absorbed in the other tissues.
On the right hand the book smacking method was inefficient. Luckily I told my grandma about the "issue at hand" and she told me to try Apireven which proved to be highly efficient. After 4 days of use the cyst was almost gone and I had no pain anymore (and my girlfriend could finally use my arm again as a pillow...)
P.S. please note that Aprireven is made with bee venom, in case you are allergic. In total, I used it twice a day for 5-6 days and now I use it randomly when I feel small discomfort/pain.
P.P.S: here it is cheaper on ebay with free shipping to Ireland: http://www.ebay.com/itm/APIREVEN-CREAM- ... 1561256289
P.P.P.S: If you get it and the medical leaflet is in Romanian, give me a shout and I'll translate it for you
- scottc
- ☃
- Location: Remote locations in Europe
- Main keyboard: GH60-HASRO 62g Nixies, HHKB Pro1 HS, Novatouch
- Main mouse: Steelseries Rival 300
- Favorite switch: Nixdorf 'Soft Touch' MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
Hah yeah, the doctor mentioned the book approach. I'm not religious so no bibles around, maybe Operating System Concepts or Absolute OpenBSD would be big enough? I think mine's small enough that I'll avoid bashing it for a while...
I'll check out Apireven, thanks for the links and the offer.
I'll check out Apireven, thanks for the links and the offer.
- chzel
- Location: Athens, Greece
- Main keyboard: Phantom
- Main mouse: Mionix Avior 7000
- Favorite switch: Beamspring, BS, Vintage Blacks.
- DT Pro Member: 0086
If not, there is always The Art of Electronics, now in it's 3rd edition!scottc wrote: ↑Hah yeah, the doctor mentioned the book approach. I'm not religious so no bibles around, maybe Operating System Concepts or Absolute OpenBSD would be big enough?
- kbdfr
- The Tiproman
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Main keyboard: Tipro MID-QM-128A + two Tipro matrix modules
- Main mouse: Contour Rollermouse Pro
- Favorite switch: Cherry black
- DT Pro Member: 0010
Why not simply take a keyboard?scottc wrote: ↑Hah yeah, the doctor mentioned the book approach. I'm not religious so no bibles around, maybe Operating System Concepts or Absolute OpenBSD would be big enough? […]
- scottc
- ☃
- Location: Remote locations in Europe
- Main keyboard: GH60-HASRO 62g Nixies, HHKB Pro1 HS, Novatouch
- Main mouse: Steelseries Rival 300
- Favorite switch: Nixdorf 'Soft Touch' MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
- derzemel
- Location: Bucharest, Romania
- Main keyboard: FC660C, SSK, TX-1800 Nixie
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 7000
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCL/SKCM tactile
Be careful not to crush your hand
- pietergen
- Location: Groningen, Netherlands, EU
- Main keyboard: none yet
- Main mouse: none - keyboard shortcuts
- DT Pro Member: -
A while ago I made some sketches and posted them on geekhack:derzemel wrote: ↑Because of the above, I wonder if a layout with modifiers in 2 columns in the center of the keyboard and the alpha-numeric on each side of the modifiers would be more useful and more comfortable to use.
Or even something silly such as.......
One of the constraints was to keep a "normal" key layout for the alphas, so no staight grids, no symmetrical staggers etc. Although it would of course be better to have something symmetrical/ergonomic. Such as the uTron...
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- Main keyboard: Macbook Pro built-in :P
- Main mouse: Kensington Orbit trackball
- Favorite switch: Buckling spring
- DT Pro Member: -
Since the pointing device in the middle has been brought up... is there a "hackable" equivalent to the IBM trackpoint? Something you could get from Mouser or Digikey or whatever, and build into your custom homebrew keyboard?
I do feel it would make a lot of sense to have something like that...
I do feel it would make a lot of sense to have something like that...