F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

OK so the F62 will be available in two options: one regular one identical to the original F62 layout and another option with 1.75 + 1u arrangement with the 1u fn key on the right barrel of the right shift key, like the HHKB style. The PCBs may be more money (lower volume - maybe I can get them to treat it like the regular F62 since no components are in different places except one pair of pads). I will keep everyone posted. It is just a matter of adjusting their tooling for the top inner assembly and make a slightly different PCB.

[Muirium]

Cool, appreciated!

That cap does have the same stem position. BUT, Unicomp will only sell that key with the JIS full set. It is not available any other way. Believe me, I tried.

As much as I like the people there, once again I must say: screw Unicomp.

Their caps suck compared to IBM originals. Putting anything but blank Unicomps on a board as costly as this would be like opting for reconditioned offbrand tyres for a new Ferrari. A nice bunch of JIS Model Ms would be most useful when this project nears completion!

[andrewjoy]

So they can make them , but they wont sell it on its own ? Wankers !

[rsbseb]

Yes I plan on offering the keyboard without key caps and maybe without barrels/flippers if rsbseb produces those up to standard and for a low enough price.

For the record I wont be be producing the barrels and flippers for this project. Ellipse has done a lot of research and received recommendations from multiple qualified sources regarding material selection. Unfortunately the product best suited for use in the flippers is just outside the operating capacities of my equipment at this time.

Everyone should know that Ellipse is dead set on the highest degree of quality in the materials for this project, I don't believe these will be anything close to cheap knock offs of the F. If he continues to demand the highest quality materials with consistent tolerances, these will be the F's to have. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a second one if you can as I have a feeling there will be those who will be kicking themselves for missing out on these.

[Ellipse]

Thanks rsbseb.

As rsbseb mentioned, the equipment required for the flippers is more demanding than what's required for general injection molding due to the type of resin required (per one of the senior staff at Unicomp), and this is making the plastic parts more expensive than anticipated. I am still trying to get the price down to $350.

There is a debate going on over on GH as well over 1.75 + 1u vs. 1.5 + 1.25u - I'll need some more feedback from those who want to buy the HHKB variation which one they prefer, besides the few who have replied so far.

[chzel]

In my opinion 1.75+1 would be best as it is "standard" among other boards, but I don't think 1.5+1.25 would be much of a problem in use.

Also, I just saw the renders, and while it might be late, I have a suggestion. Instead of using the tab system to close the sandwich, maybe you could use a few screws (M3?) along the long sides (4 each side should be enough). It would make working on them really easier.

[andrewjoy]

Thanks rsbseb.

As rsbseb mentioned, the equipment required for the flippers is more demanding than what's required for general injection molding due to the type of resin required (per one of the senior staff at Unicomp), and this is making the plastic parts more expensive than anticipated. I am still trying to get the price down to $350.

There is a debate going on over on GH as well over 1.75 + 1u vs. 1.5 + 1.25u - I'll need some more feedback from those who want to buy the HHKB variation which one they prefer, besides the few who have replied so far.

taling on layouts

will you offer unix layout ?

[Ratfink]

Also, I just saw the renders, and while it might be late, I have a suggestion. Instead of using the tab system to close the sandwich, maybe you could use a few screws (M3?) along the long sides (4 each side should be enough). It would make working on them really easier.

Have you ever worked on a beam spring board? They bolt together, and getting the tension just right can be quite a pain. Of course, a bolt-together model F might not have the same problem or with as large a magnitude, but I'd rather go with the tabs to be safe.

[chzel]

No, never worked on a beamspring, but since the top plate already defines the maximum compression available with the bent lip, I guess it would be easy to just screw the plates together until they touch.

[0100010]

Thanks rsbseb.

As rsbseb mentioned, the equipment required for the flippers is more demanding than what's required for general injection molding due to the type of resin required (per one of the senior staff at Unicomp), and this is making the plastic parts more expensive than anticipated. I am still trying to get the price down to $350.

There is a debate going on over on GH as well over 1.75 + 1u vs. 1.5 + 1.25u - I'll need some more feedback from those who want to buy the HHKB variation which one they prefer, besides the few who have replied so far.

taling on layouts

will you offer unix layout ?

Wouldn't the standard F62 layout with appropriate keys be unix? Kinda like this, ignoring the right shift :

[andrewjoy]

yes but if i get it pre built i dont want to have to open it to change springs

[Muirium]

No, never worked on a beamspring, but since the top plate already defines the maximum compression available with the bent lip, I guess it would be easy to just screw the plates together until they touch.

I've worked on both. The beamspring is indeed trickier to get "just right". But I don't think bolts are the reason why. Beamspring and Model F have quite different "sandwich" / "inner assembly" construction that introduces a lot more variables besides the mere presence of bolts.

The tabs on my Kishsaver work pretty well, but they do feel like a point of failure if it's opened and closed too many times. Bolts do not.

Anyway, 1.75+1u on the split right Shift for me of course. I want to do a complete HHKB layout with this board. The Kishsaver falls short on just that single key!

[andrewjoy]

Thats the layout i want

if its no good for you as it does not have 1.75+1 i can take it off your hands no problem

I would also go with bolts with a few tabs to locate it only , my AT knows why i have also broken a XT plate like that but i had a spare !

[Muirium]

I would need to talk with your accountant.

[andrewjoy]

trade you for a 107 + 122

[0100010]

Some potential options - carry over from the older custom F62 thread :

[Muirium]

Progress = less options!

I'm happy with the Kishsaver's bottom row. If I had to cram in more, I'd rather use JIS keys than the elusive Code, over and over and over. They're made for it!

[0100010]

Progress = less options!

I'm happy with the Kishsaver's bottom row. If I had to cram in more, I'd rather use JIS keys than the elusive Code, over and over and over. They're made for it!

True. Standard bottom row works. Is there consensus on right shift?

[Muirium]

Well, I agree with myself. And I believe Mu does too.

[Ellipse]

You should be able to buy extra top inner assembly plates, foam, and different PCBs if you want the ability to change F62 layouts.

Does Unicomp make 2.75u code keys?

[0100010]

You should be able to buy extra top inner assembly plates, foam, and different PCBs if you want the ability to change F62 layouts.

Does Unicomp make 2.75u code keys?

Negative. Only place to source Code keys is from old IBM Wheelwriters. They come in pearl or white and they have the word "Code" dye sublimated on them in green.

[Khers]

Standard F62 bottom row is fine with me and given the choice I'd much prefer 1.75 + 1u to 1.5 + 1.25u, but prefer both to a 2.75u (oversized) shift.

[Muirium]

Exactly my preferences too.

[fohat]

Progress = less options!

That is what bothers me.

I really lust after a straight F-77, which I would be happy to build with the 1 and a half XTs I have laying around for parts, and I worry that this whole affair will leave me in the dust.

[romevi]

Signed up for sure, but marking for interest as well.

[Muirium]

@Fohat. The straight 77 is a sure thing.

All I'm talking about is doing the best possible 62 key. I bet we can only ultimately produce one design of 77 and one 62.

[Ellipse]

Mu there will likely be a regular F62 and one with the 1.75 + 1 or 1.5 + 1.25 right shift. The cost will be a little higher for the low volume PCB however. The F77 barrels are not changing.

[Muirium]

Tada!

Now to kill the misguided 1.5+1.25 ugly split and settle on the 1.75+1u HHKB split that's the whole purpose of an altered 62.

[andrewjoy]

when you say standard 62 key , you mean ANSI mod right or the original layout ?

[0100010]

when you say standard 62 key , you mean ANSI mod right or the original layout ?

No difference in barrel positions between the Kishsaver F62 and an ANSI 62 (or ISO 62 either).