Why are Cherry brand keyboards so beloved on DT?

[Muirium]

So far I've tested MX browns, reds, blacks, and blues, and they felt all boring to me, except the blues, which have a good clicky sound but no respectable weight. I'll try MX greens next, or the white ones... but I'm starting to lose my hopes on Cherry switches :'(

My first Cherry switch keyboard was my Shiny stainless steel custom 60% with MX greens. I'd tried every member of the modern MX family as loose switches before then, but that was my first full board. Not too impressed! I mean, I'd gotten used to my IBM Model F XT already, and though the SA caps I put on my 60% were cool, the switches weren't up to much.

Pretty much been the same story with every MX based keyboard I've come by. From modern MX red Ducky to vintage G80-3422. I'd already found better switch feel elsewhere. And there's no way to mod IBM-style gorgeous click into the MX family. You're just fiddling around with details, not the fundamentals.

Zslane ought to try a NovaTouch sometime. I know his excuse not to (fullsize fundamentalist). But the truth is he'd get his beloved SA caps on a much better switch than anything in the MX line. Fancy caps on mediocre (at best!) switches don't cut it, for me. Those same caps sing a different song when you put them somewhere nice.

But we wander off-topic, as always. This thread's really about the Cherry keyboard experience. Not the modern users of their switches. I'm not caught up in the old Cherry magic, but I'm more open to the idea there's something to it than the nonsense of never-ending mods on their modern, shitty switches.


@Photekq: Aye, I'm up for it. The danger, though, is there's always a chance I'm not impressed with it. If there's any Cherry board I could go head over heels for it's their one and only TKL. But when dealing with an IBM and Topre snob, don't count on it!

[Halvar]

Cherry was there in the 70s before the PC revolution happened. And in the late 80s and early 90s, Cherry keyboards were everywhere, while IBM was unaffordable except for public sector, universities and enterprises. The G8x-3000 was what most people at least here in Germany would consider the quintessential quality keyboard of that period. Then the time came where PC makers wouldn't buy any quality keyboards any more and nothing but price would be important, and that was basically the end of Cherry as a keyboard company. Modern Cherry keyboards aren't valued high by anybody I think. They're trying to catch up in the gamer market now, but it seems like the MX 6.0 board is too expensive and has some flaws.

As for the switches Cherry make, other than IBM and Topre, they designed them to be modules from the start on. You don't even need a plate to make a Cherry MX keyboard, just a sturdy PCB, some switches, a controller and a case. Alps switches are modules, too, but most of them are of questionable quality, age badly, and you need a plate in any case. I just yesterday tested an old board with white Alps switches that was rather dirty, and 6 of 102 switches just didn't work any more, and I would probably have to dissassemble and clean them to make them work again. Alps are hyped at the moment in the community because they are perceived as more "special" than MX and fill some gaps in key feel that the MX range leaves, but unless you find the blue elephant you are probably better off using MX or MX clones for any custom build.

So, with keyboards, a cheap vintage Cherry board from ebay or even a new G80-3000 or G80-1800 is probably the cheapest good way to say goodbye to rubber domes. A Model M is better of course, but you don't get them for under 50 € any more here...

[bocahgundul]

The keycaps is the best one I've tried thick abs and dyesub goodness.
There are so many possibilities for cherry type board like custom case custom pcb and much more

But the feel of the board is not as good as any other board I've tried so that led me into making cherry mx my least favorite switches. But that doesn't mean i don't like cherry, I need to try custom first to make a verdict of cherry board
hehe

[snuci]

Cherry was there in the 70s before the PC revolution happened. And in the late 80s and early 90s, Cherry keyboards were everywhere...

I was going to make a post about this but I'm not finding many examples of 70s or even really early 80s Cherry boards. Was it always the Gx8 series with Mx switches or were there other types? There are mentions of different key switch types in the Cherry catalogs in the wiki but no examples. Was there that many Cherriy's around pre-PC?

I ask because I do have a pre-PC example that I''ll be posting tomorrow when I have time to take some pics and clean it up but I can't seem to find any similar ones and it does not have MX switches. Just curious.

[Muirium]

Alps are hyped at the moment in the community because they are perceived as more "special" than MX and fill some gaps in key feel that the MX range leaves

That would be spot on if you'd said Gateron instead.

MX clones are definitely "in" at the moment, and do operate within key feel framework that MX defined. But Alps is something else entirely, a broader family in its own right than the whole MX household. I don't think Alps is hyped momentarily, but is instead just as worthy an opponent to MX as is IBM and Topre.

Alps has its flaws, of course. Even setting aside switch lifetime and spotty availability, Alps sits lower down in my personal ranking than Space Invaders. But let's treat them as a credible rival, and not some sort of copycat. Modular keyswitches are bigger than Cherry alone.

[photekq]

The G80-3000 case style isn't quite what I'm looking for. I want this:



...but full ANSI 104, not winkeyless, and with MX reds stock (I don't mod boards).

Ah, in that case you're out of luck.

If you're looking for MX reds and you don't mod boards then you're going to have a bad time.. MX reds feel like absolute shit when they haven't been lubricated.

[Chyros]

Yeah I really wouldn't say Alps is hyped atm. Regardless, Alps comprises such a wide variety of switches some of them differ more within the family than outside it. They have their weaknesses; no switch that I know of is as vulnerable to dust, the mount snaps off easily, and many boards with them in could come with a wide variety of switches so it's often a guessing game. I think many Alps' keyfeel is excellent though, perfectly balanced and with high-up actuation. Plus, they sound amazing, nothing's rivalled the sound of Alps for me. Alps mount is also very common and of course you can open them easily and without desoldering!

Cherry also has strengths and weaknesses of course, but in exact opposite fields than Alps, which might explain why few people like both. I've found their main problem to be the keyfeel; linear switches are too scratchy and badly weighted, and the tactility in their tactile and clicky switches is very unclean. The sound is also pretty annoying, very plasticky and hollow. You also need to desolder to tinker with them, and many Cherry boards feel extremely flimsy and badly made to me. However, you can mod the hell out of them with custom springs and caps and all sorts of stuff, all of which is much easier to find than stuff for other switches (does anyone even make custom Alps springs??) and of course they're much more contemporary; you can still buy them new and with features such as backlighting which isn't available on vintage boards. Besides, Cherry, being German, is very thoroughly documented and you know everything from their boards just by looking at the model number, so there's no surprises.

I'd say it all comes down to personal preference which set of pros and cons (and all other switches have a similar list of pros and cons, of course) you like more.

[seebart]

Alps are hyped at the moment in the community because they are perceived as more "special" than MX and fill some gaps in key feel that the MX range leaves, but unless you find the blue elephant you are probably better off using MX or MX clones for any custom build.

Good to see we can agree to disagree Halvar, strongly! The only two weaknesses Alps SKCL/SKCM have are their proneness to dirt and age, and the fact that they are not produced anymore. The switch range, keyboard range and keyfeel are vastly superior to Cherry MX, I'm certainly not alone in that opinion here. I cannot take your "Alps are hyped at the moment in the community" comment seriously. Ridiculous. That's one looong extensive hype moment then, going on for years here and at GH. Cherry MX can never replace Alps SKCL/SKCM, just like it could never replace IBM buckling spring.

[guk]

Eh, Alps are hyped. The interest in Alps switches has skyrocketed over the last couple of months, driving prices accordingly. This is not an evaluation but an observation.

[seebart]

Eh, Alps are hyped. The interest in Alps switches has skyrocketed over the last couple of months, driving prices accordingly. This is not an evaluation but an observation.

Right, many keyboards are "hyped". You think that hype will pass in the future? That's what Halvars comment reads like to me. I don't think so. Yes the "hype" may have inrceased. Look how many new users we have here. The fact that Alps are not available like MX might add to that hype and the demand.

If all the keyboard enthusiasts liked Cherry MX just as much as Alps why then even bother with Alps? Why the hype?

[guk]

I reckon that the demand will lessen eventually, after the "new and interdasting" and "fomo" period. That's just my opinion though.

[seebart]

I reckon that the demand will lessen eventually, after the "new and interdasting" and "fomo" period. That's just my opinion though.

Possibly. Actually I very much hope so. More potential boards for me to find. My personal liking of Alps will never cease.

[scottc]

I've always been a big fan of Alps switches, it's just Cherry MX are a lot more available to me. My first mechanical keyboard was a Dell AT102W with black simplified complicated Alps. Still, try getting an Alps board in a usable or even somewhat standard layout (that means no big-ass enter). Even if you go full-size ANSI or ISO, you've got a small handful of options and many are difficult to get, even more difficult to get in good condition since the switches are so prone to wear as Chryos has said. If you're like me and want TKL or smaller in a fairly normal layout, you're going to have a very hard time unless you build custom keyboards.

[seebart]

Very true scott, that's why Chzel's GB is so cool. Can't wait for mine.

[scottc]

Absolutely! They are refreshingly sane, unlike my somewhat disappointing Monterey "Minitouch"-style board. Some of Apple's keyboards are quite nice too. I just got an M0118 with orange Alps in ISO-DE layout yesterday which is very nice. Again, the layout is just a little bit off. It can be solved for the most part with a smart converter, but there's only so much that can do.

[Chyros]

Dell AT102W with black simplified Alps

Wait what? Oo

[scottc]

Whoops, I mean complicated! I always get the acronyms mixed up in my head...

[Halvar]

Eh, Alps are hyped. The interest in Alps switches has skyrocketed over the last couple of months, driving prices accordingly. This is not an evaluation but an observation.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Three years ago, while I used a Silicon Graphics cream Alps board at work, nobody really cared for any Alps boards in ebay auctions, you could get them really cheap because no one here would care... Today we have people paying >120 each for a bunch of very yellowed used blue Alps K102 in bad shape, and all Alps boards on ebay have become harder to get. There really are distinct hype cycles in this community, and I think this will be over when enough people have gone through the variety of what's available for long enough.

The switch range, keyboard range and keyfeel are vastly superior to Cherry MX, I'm certainly not alone in that opinion here.

That's also exactly what I mean. No, I don't agree at all. IMO there are three or four good variants (including clones), and the rest is not even worth talking about. Also, let's not forget that preferences are very personal. But I know there are three or four people in this forum with strong opinions for whom the Alps vortex is the big discovery of 2014. Let's see what they prescribe next year.

[seebart]

Eh, Alps are hyped. The interest in Alps switches has skyrocketed over the last couple of months, driving prices accordingly. This is not an evaluation but an observation.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Three years ago, while I used a Silicon Graphics cream Alps board at work, nobody really cared for any Alps boards in ebay auctions, you could get them really cheap because no one here would care... Today we have people paying >120 each for a bunch of very yellowed used blue Alps K102 in bad shape, and all Alps boards on ebay have become harder to get. There really are distinct hype cycles in this community, and I think this will be over when enough people have gone through the variety of what's available for long enough.

The switch range, keyboard range and keyfeel are vastly superior to Cherry MX, I'm certainly not alone in that opinion here.

That's also exactly what I mean. No, I don't agree at all. IMO there are three or four good variants (including clones), and the rest is not even worth talking about. Also, let's not forget that preferences are very personal. But I know there are three or four people in this forum with strong opinions for whom the Alps vortex is the big discovery of 2014. Let's see what they prescribe next year.

Sure there's a hype. I'd say the whole mechanical keyboard "scene" is hyped. More and more people taking an interest. Some of those people have $$$ to spend. I think there are slightly more than three to four people who like Alps switches but that's secondary. So you've tried all Alps variants and clones to know "and the rest is not even worth talking about"? Impressive. I don't remember that "Alps vortex is the big discovery of 2014". I do remember enjoying my Apple AEK2 keyboard in the early 1990's without thinking about the switch. I don't see anyone "prescribing" anything here.

And yes,

Also, let's not forget that preferences are very personal

100% agreed on that.


Look, here's the hype in numbers:

Unbenannt.JPG (11.94 KiB) Viewed 4889 times

[Chyros]

Whoops, I mean complicated! I always get the acronyms mixed up in my head...

Fair enough, normally I would've thought it was a typo but someone mentioned to Dan B that they had a simplified Alps AT101W so I thought I'd ask .

[zslane]

Zslane ought to try a NovaTouch sometime.

I plan to, when CM comes out with one in ANSI 104 format and silences the switches in a way that meets with your approval. However, even if they did make a new model like that, it wouldn't become my daily driver at work unless it came in white (to carry the Space Cadet caps).

[stratokaster]

I personally don't like Cherry boards and switches, but I respect the company. Basically, they were the only one who persisted during the "dark times" and continued making high-quality mechanical keyboards.

[Muirium]

Besides Topre. They've been making Realforce-like keyboards since the early 1980s. And unlike Cherry, they still make them just as well today.

(I say Realforce-like because they only started using that name around 2000 or so. It's their consumer brand. But the hardware itself goes right back. You can tell by the vintage quality their new caps still possess. And we have vintage finds to prove it, of course.)

[Muirium]

Zslane ought to try a NovaTouch sometime.

I plan to, when CM comes out with one in ANSI 104 format and silences the switches in a way that meets with your approval. However, even if they did make a new model like that, it wouldn't become my daily driver at work unless it came in white (to carry the Space Cadet caps).

You chopped off the rest of my quote, where I called you a fullsize fundamentalist! Just get a bloody NovaTouch already. You're in America. They're not even expensive! Hyper's rings are cheaper where you live too. You can always sell it once you've confirmed that from that moment MX is dead to you.

[zslane]

Call me anything you like. I'm not about to sacrifice seventeen beautiful Space Cadet keycaps just for NovaTouch switches. And I will not put Space Cadet on a black board. And I am way too lazy to take the whole thing apart just to put silencing rings in. If CM can't make the keyboard I want, then I'm not going to waste my money on them, it's that simple.

[Intuition]

I am still months away from understanding all of this.

But my 5A order / Layout should be wow worthy.