F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[andrewjoy]

Is there any news on rounding off the bar above the keys a little to make it match the original ?

[nh10798]

Is there any news on rounding off the bar above the keys a little to make it match the original ?

+

[sero]

I am also interested in the smaller case.

[Ellipse]

Thanks andrew - noted - everyone if you see anything and have a suggestion please do post. I will post better photos soon.

This week I am making notes on what needs to be updated in the CAD files for the production round, as I test the prototypes and start taking more professional-looking photos. As I posted, the prototypes required some adjustment with hand tools.

Some adjustments were as little as 0.1 mm but I noticed it and made the change.

Once I have made the hand adjustments and do final testing of the prototypes, the orders will open assuming all is well.

[The_Beast]

As someone who just found this page, the GB hasn't opened yet right?

[toidbb]

As someone who just found this page, the GB hasn't opened yet right?

No, you are in luck the expectation is orders will open by the end of he month, after validation of the production samples.

[Ellipse]

I am validating some interesting and lesser-known Model F secrets. For example, every buckling spring's top end (touching the key) must terminate exactly at the 12 o'clock position or buckling is not as crisp.

On other sites they mentioned some things about the other end of the spring (the end touching the flipper) needing to be in a certain place, but I have found that to be less a priority than the side touching the key stem. Usually this did not make a difference as IBM was very good to make both of most of their spring ends terminate at exactly the same position on opposite sides. Looking at some XT flippers with their springs, I can't even see one error on IBM's part.

[Elrick]

As someone who just found this page, the GB hasn't opened yet right?

No, you are in luck the expectation is orders will open by the end of he month, after validation of the production samples.

There is still a way to go before they are finally available to purchase because Ellipse is working on fine tweaking them to DT's high standards.

[gnarlsagan]

I'd like to know if anyone else is interested in bhtooefr's layout:



If so, it would be helpful if we had more people to contribute to required tooling costs, which will probably be around $500 according to Ellipse. I don't mind paying extra myself, but it would be nice to gauge interest to see if anyone else would like to contribute.

Once the initial tooling cost is covered, anyone would be able to order bhtooefr's layout as one of the pre-assembled options!

Please PM myself or Ellipse, or just post in this thread if this layout is something you'd like to have. It's similar to the one he posted recently, except it retains a right alt key at the expense of shortening the row one modifiers on the left side.

[romevi]

I'd like to know if anyone else is interested in bhtooefr's layout:



If so, it would be helpful if we had more people to contribute to required tooling costs, which will probably be around $500 according to Ellipse. I don't mind paying extra myself, but it would be nice to gauge interest to see if anyone else would like to contribute.

Once the initial tooling cost is covered, anyone would be able to order bhtooefr's layout as one of the pre-assembled options!

Please PM myself or Ellipse, or just post in this thread if this layout is something you'd like to have. It's similar to the one he posted recently, except it retains a right alt key at the expense of shortening the row one modifiers on the left side.

That looks cool, but wouldn't it be better to have the Fn next to the right Shift? Or is the purpose of this to use caps Unicomp makes?

[gnarlsagan]

I'd like to know if anyone else is interested in bhtooefr's layout:



If so, it would be helpful if we had more people to contribute to required tooling costs, which will probably be around $500 according to Ellipse. I don't mind paying extra myself, but it would be nice to gauge interest to see if anyone else would like to contribute.

Once the initial tooling cost is covered, anyone would be able to order bhtooefr's layout as one of the pre-assembled options!

Please PM myself or Ellipse, or just post in this thread if this layout is something you'd like to have. It's similar to the one he posted recently, except it retains a right alt key at the expense of shortening the row one modifiers on the left side.

That looks cool, but wouldn't it be better to have the Fn next to the right Shift? Or is the purpose of this to use caps Unicomp makes?

That is a great idea. Thank you for your input. I'm not at all married to the left bottom row mods. At a minimum I'd like to keep the arrow keys and the right Alt key. I made this based on your suggestion, and I actually think it's a bit cleaner:



Let's see if bhtooefr has any objections. If there is positive feedback, I'll update my post.

[Ellipse]

Success! Success! Success!

I just assembled the F62 prototype complete inner assembly and can confirm that this Model F redesign project is a success! It truly deserves the Model F moniker. We will be going forward with the group buy before month end. I will definitely continue testing and making the final pre-production adjustments as the prototypes are not 100% (nor were they expected to be perfect!). I have made and will keep making design adjustments even as small as 0.1 mm to make them good.

Keys buckle correctly and are recognized on the computer - the new capacitive flippers do their job just as well as the originals so far. There are no ghost signals as of yet. The keyboard sounds eerily similar to my little used, original refurbished 77 key 4704 with Ensolite foam (the project uses Neoprene/EDPM type foam from McMaster-Carr) - you can tell the difference between the two but it was a lot closer than expected. Of course it does sound different from my worn out F's with degraded foam (the F77 original, and just about each Model F in my collection, sounds different from just about every other Model F!). The keys are crisp and have a solid amount of musicality to them like the original 77 key 4704 - far from the point where it would annoy most people in my view (some F's have more musicality, some have less).

One interesting note is that the improved manufacturing processes and tolerances have allowed for a more consistent sound to each key - granted the keys do sound different from each other and still have a mildly musical quality to them, though they are less random in their sound. These better tolerances also make for more consistent barrels. In test measurements I have noticed very low sample to sample variation.

Also the final barrel molds were completed - these samples will be with the final barrel design. Each barrel will have a number on its underside since I ordered a multi-cavity mold. IBM gave a code to each barrel so they could know when a mold cavity needed to be adjusted if it was producing out-of-spec injection-molded parts.

I will continue making the hand adjustments to the prototypes and making those adjustments in the CAD files. Before opening orders I want the prototypes to be as close to the final production units as possible and I want to take photos and make a video beforehand.

[Madhias]

That sounds good! Looking forward to see the video and pictures.

[chzel]

Great news!!!!!!

[romevi]

Success! Success! Success!

I just assembled the F62 prototype complete inner assembly and can confirm that this Model F redesign project is a success! It truly deserves the Model F moniker. We will be going forward with the group buy before month end. I will definitely continue testing and making the final pre-production adjustments as the prototypes are not 100% (nor were they expected to be perfect!). I have made and will keep making design adjustments even as small as 0.1 mm to make them good.

Keys buckle correctly and are recognized on the computer - the new capacitive flippers do their job just as well as the originals so far. There are no ghost signals as of yet. The keyboard sounds eerily similar to my little used, original refurbished 77 key 4704 with Ensolite foam (the project uses Neoprene/EDPM type foam from McMaster-Carr) - you can tell the difference between the two but it was a lot closer than expected. Of course it does sound different from my worn out F's with degraded foam (the F77 original, and just about each Model F in my collection, sounds different from just about every other Model F!). The keys are crisp and have a solid amount of musicality to them like the original 77 key 4704 - far from the point where it would annoy most people in my view (some F's have more musicality, some have less).

One interesting note is that the improved manufacturing processes and tolerances have allowed for a more consistent sound to each key - granted the keys do sound different from each other and still have a mildly musical quality to them, though they are less random in their sound. These better tolerances also make for more consistent barrels. In test measurements I have noticed very low sample to sample variation.

Also the final barrel molds were completed - these samples will be with the final barrel design. Each barrel will have a number on its underside since I ordered a multi-cavity mold. IBM gave a code to each barrel so they could know when a mold cavity needed to be adjusted if it was producing out-of-spec injection-molded parts.

I will continue making the hand adjustments to the prototypes and making those adjustments in the CAD files. Before opening orders I want the prototypes to be as close to the final production units as possible and I want to take photos and make a video beforehand.

Looking forward to the videos!

[romevi]

Success! Success! Success!

I just assembled the F62 prototype complete inner assembly and can confirm that this Model F redesign project is a success! It truly deserves the Model F moniker. We will be going forward with the group buy before month end. I will definitely continue testing and making the final pre-production adjustments as the prototypes are not 100% (nor were they expected to be perfect!). I have made and will keep making design adjustments even as small as 0.1 mm to make them good.

Keys buckle correctly and are recognized on the computer - the new capacitive flippers do their job just as well as the originals so far. There are no ghost signals as of yet. The keyboard sounds eerily similar to my little used, original refurbished 77 key 4704 with Ensolite foam (the project uses Neoprene/EDPM type foam from McMaster-Carr) - you can tell the difference between the two but it was a lot closer than expected. Of course it does sound different from my worn out F's with degraded foam (the F77 original, and just about each Model F in my collection, sounds different from just about every other Model F!). The keys are crisp and have a solid amount of musicality to them like the original 77 key 4704 - far from the point where it would annoy most people in my view (some F's have more musicality, some have less).

One interesting note is that the improved manufacturing processes and tolerances have allowed for a more consistent sound to each key - granted the keys do sound different from each other and still have a mildly musical quality to them, though they are less random in their sound. These better tolerances also make for more consistent barrels. In test measurements I have noticed very low sample to sample variation.

Also the final barrel molds were completed - these samples will be with the final barrel design. Each barrel will have a number on its underside since I ordered a multi-cavity mold. IBM gave a code to each barrel so they could know when a mold cavity needed to be adjusted if it was producing out-of-spec injection-molded parts.

I will continue making the hand adjustments to the prototypes and making those adjustments in the CAD files. Before opening orders I want the prototypes to be as close to the final production units as possible and I want to take photos and make a video beforehand.

Looking forward to the videos!

[manofinterests]

Ellipse, you mentioned in your last post "before opening orders..."

I might've jumped the gun and put an order through. I got a "Thank you for your order" email and receipt but it looks like I haven't been charged yet. Will I need to submit another order through when orders officially open? This was my mistake for not reading carefully enough. My bad.

[bhtooefr]

That looks cool, but wouldn't it be better to have the Fn next to the right Shift? Or is the purpose of this to use caps Unicomp makes?

That is a great idea. Thank you for your input. I'm not at all married to the left bottom row mods. At a minimum I'd like to keep the arrow keys and the right Alt key. I made this based on your suggestion, and I actually think it's a bit cleaner:



Let's see if bhtooefr has any objections. If there is positive feedback, I'll update my post.

I personally don't like right Shift Fn keys for a few reasons (and on this layout, the Fn key being too close to the arrows is something I really don't like for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn stuff), and manufacturability is a concern.

1.75 U right shift means using a Caps Lock key if using Unicomp keys, IIRC, for starters.

6.25 U spacebar isn't something available for buckling spring period - the spacebar sizes appropriate for a 4704/122/M-based keyset are 2.5 (5576-C01), 5.75 (Unicomp 104/105/106-key), and 7 U (everything else). There's also the Wheelwriter spacebar at 7.25 U (which is a Model M-based design, but not exactly appropriate here), and the PC (XT) and AT spacebars at about 9.5 U, but those are out of scope.

[0100010]

Success! Success! Success!
-snip-

Awesome.

[gnarlsagan]

That looks cool, but wouldn't it be better to have the Fn next to the right Shift? Or is the purpose of this to use caps Unicomp makes?

That is a great idea. Thank you for your input. I'm not at all married to the left bottom row mods. At a minimum I'd like to keep the arrow keys and the right Alt key. I made this based on your suggestion, and I actually think it's a bit cleaner:



Let's see if bhtooefr has any objections. If there is positive feedback, I'll update my post.

I personally don't like right Shift Fn keys for a few reasons (and on this layout, the Fn key being too close to the arrows is something I really don't like for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn stuff), and manufacturability is a concern.

1.75 U right shift means using a Caps Lock key if using Unicomp keys, IIRC, for starters.

6.25 U spacebar isn't something available for buckling spring period - the spacebar sizes appropriate for a 4704/122/M-based keyset are 2.5 (5576-C01), 5.75 (Unicomp 104/105/106-key), and 7 U (everything else). There's also the Wheelwriter spacebar at 7.25 U (which is a Model M-based design, but not exactly appropriate here), and the PC (XT) and AT spacebars at about 9.5 U, but those are out of scope.

Okay, thanks for the feedback. So your original layout is likely the best option. Unless you have any further suggestions, count me in. ☺

[scottc]

Ellipse, if we were to have the keyboard shipped to the USA but bought internationally, how do we make your site give us a domestic shipping option? It only gives me the $50 option and I can't change it.

[andrewjoy]

What was the final call on the feet ?

[romevi]

That looks cool, but wouldn't it be better to have the Fn next to the right Shift? Or is the purpose of this to use caps Unicomp makes?

That is a great idea. Thank you for your input. I'm not at all married to the left bottom row mods. At a minimum I'd like to keep the arrow keys and the right Alt key. I made this based on your suggestion, and I actually think it's a bit cleaner:



Let's see if bhtooefr has any objections. If there is positive feedback, I'll update my post.

I personally don't like right Shift Fn keys for a few reasons (and on this layout, the Fn key being too close to the arrows is something I really don't like for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn stuff), and manufacturability is a concern.

1.75 U right shift means using a Caps Lock key if using Unicomp keys, IIRC, for starters.

6.25 U spacebar isn't something available for buckling spring period - the spacebar sizes appropriate for a 4704/122/M-based keyset are 2.5 (5576-C01), 5.75 (Unicomp 104/105/106-key), and 7 U (everything else). There's also the Wheelwriter spacebar at 7.25 U (which is a Model M-based design, but not exactly appropriate here), and the PC (XT) and AT spacebars at about 9.5 U, but those are out of scope.

Regarding the right Shift with Fn, the Caps Lock will work fine, correct? Otherwise, I'd want to keep everything else standard when I order my board.

[Ellipse]

Andrew - all keyboards will include cork-rubber feet (they will ship not installed on the keyboard). Also everyone will get a choice of any 4 feet from my McMaster-Carr photo in the thread, including your big feet with screw and nut. No extra charge. You will add the keyboard to the cart, and then add the keyboard feet to your cart (a dropdown menu on the keyboard feet page lets you select which ones you want).

[andrewjoy]

That is amazing news!

Will it be possible to have extra feet , i am not a fan of the bing long bar on my 107

[darkspider]

This project almost completed? Amazing

[Ellipse]

Yes you can order extra feet from the mcmaster carr photo earlier in the thread. Which ones were you thinking?

[andrewjoy]

Something like this

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rubbe ... s/=10rzo9r

I would also want to order some 107 foam if thats an option

[Ellipse]

Your link didn't point to one product Andrew. I believe you need to click product details for the specific McMaster Carr part.

Yes I am looking to make other foams as well.

[andrewjoy]

http://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/content ... 1353056274