HHKB Pro 2 review (Topre 45 g uniform)

[davkol]

I came from a TKL JIS Realforce. (…)

Okay, where do I start…?

First, I couldn't help myself and cringed at Chyros' complaint about Ctrl and Caps Lock position on HHKB, and then I experienced another WTF moment looking at your left-corner Fn mapped as Ctrl. The same with Xah Lee's opinion of the HHKB. (This rant isn't targeted at anyone specific, by the way, it's just an outcry.)

The original HHKB was a mix of Sun Type 3 (unix layout) and Apple M0110 (mac layout), both ANSI, and it was tied to a specific environment, incl. user interface. Prof. Wada probably used Emacs, being a Lisp hacker.

That's very different from DOS or Windows systems, tied to Model M and its clones. PFU tried to make HHKB usable with such systems, that's the point of the Fn layer, but honestly? It sucks. For example, I have no idea how to press Ctrl-F8, i.e., Ctrl-Fn-8 on an ANSI HHKB Pro (the one with only one Fn key, to the right of the right Shift). That's just self-abuse. The ANSI HHKB Lite at least has another Fn key on the left side, but the Pro? Nope.

However, do I complain, that the HHKB is unusable with Visual Studio? No way. I can, of course, make a (parody) review of a road bike, where I spend most of the time complaining, that road bikes suck at riding off-road.

[webwit]

I've set dip switch 4 to On for an extra Fn on the left of the space bar. This allows me, among others, to touch type the cursor keys without leaving the home row.

[davkol]

Well, yes. The downside is that it only moves the problem elsewhere; for instance, Windows' pseudotiling Win-arrow combo becomes more awkward than before.

[webwit]

On Windows I use the Windows key on the right of the space bar. Place your right thumb on this key and the little finger on the Fn key, put down your index finger and middle finger. Where are they? They are on the cursor keys.

[davkol]

Actually, they aren't. I have to place my thumb on the edge of the modifier (which wouldn't be that much of a problem) to at least place the other two fingers on the upper arrow keys, but I find it impossible to access the other two arrows without moving the whole arm.

(Have I already mentioned my hatred for HHKB Fn layer? If not, yes, I hate it very much indeed.)

[Muirium]

There are two, quite distinct, HHKB fandoms. I'm from the other side. That function layer is its genius, for me.

[mars]

I think people who complain about the hhkb fn layer are people who neglected their pinkies in years of typing,
and now are surprised they need to be strong as the other fingers to perform certain tasks.

I can say for sure my pinkies got a hell of a workout in a month with my hhkb, more than when I used 104keys membranes or laptop keyboards.

[kbdfr]

[…] Place your right thumb on this key and the little finger on the Fn key, put down your index finger and middle finger. Where are they? They are on the cursor keys.

Actually, they aren't. I have to place my thumb on the edge of the modifier (which wouldn't be that much of a problem) to at least place the other two fingers on the upper arrow keys […]

I place my left pinky on the Escape key, my left thumb on the Fn key, my right ring finger on Backspace and my right pinky on Enter.
Then I wake up from that nightmare and press a single dedicated key

[Chyros]

I think people who complain about the hhkb fn layer are people who neglected their pinkies in years of typing,
and now are surprised they need to be strong as the other fingers to perform certain tasks.

I can say for sure my pinkies got a hell of a workout in a month with my hhkb, more than when I used 104keys membranes or laptop keyboards.

Or you can just press a single key .

[Muirium]

You two are to the HHKB what I am to MX. As Rutger Hauer so memorably said: All those peeves will be lost in time, like pee in a punch bowl.

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

Wasn't it "like beer in a pub"?

Also, you can add me to that list Way I see it, if you've got room for a fullsize, and you're not constantly taking your keyboard with you everywhere, you might as well roll one, because there's no shame in having dedicated keys

[Muirium]

You're entitled to your opinion. Wrong as it may be!

I'm not primarily into small keyboards for desk space conservation. Even when at a huge desk, I can't stand numpads, full stop. They're on the wrong ducking side! It's not just my mouse or trackpad I like to have at the right of the keyboard, it's all sorts of things, many of which involve hot coffee or cold beer.

I prefer a good 60% (where good is largely to do with how similar it's layout is to the HHKB!) to a Tenkeyless, but that's more about symmetry. There's certainly nothing wrong with a TKL for me. I just happen to prefer the straight 60.

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

They're on the wrong ducking side! It's not just my mouse or trackpad I like to have at the right of the keyboard, it's all sorts of things, many of which involve hot coffee or cold beer.

That raises an interesting point, actually, and one that I hadn't realised was a point until now. I'm a leftie, so I've never had that problem, nor did I ever realise it would be a problem O_o

Now I'm feeling very confused about myself. Thanks, Mu.

[Muirium]

Whenever I use a fullsize, I'm an honorary leftie. They work reasonably well that way. Until I slam my cup of tea down on the effing numpad!

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

I guess that's just something you'd have to get used to not doing when transitioning from a small form factor keyboard. Back when I was set up in my living room, the only beverage-related incident I had was on new years eve, when I somehow managed to spill my ouzo all over my keyboard, desk, and myself. It was just a rubberdome at the time, gods be praised. And now, well... just look at my desk:

Spoiler:

All my F needs is a cupholder in the top right and I'd be set!

[jacobolus]

HHKB physical layout is pretty reasonable if you want something with ~60 keys which perpetuates all the sadistic sins of the IBM/QWERTY layout. Considering the vast majority of keyboards are in the same sad boat, it’s hard to call the HHKB out specifically for this.

The logical layout is a mixed bag. The control key is in a fine spot, and delete is marginally better than the top row. The trade-off is that backtick and backslash are are marginally worse than usual. But the Fn layer is nowhere near efficient or logical, and people’s attachment to it is pretty inexplicable. Some kind of Stockholm Syndrome thing after the price? Dunno.. Anyway, whatever.... Easy enough to fix in either hardware (e.g. using Hasu’s thing) or in software on the computer side.

But then you get to the switches, which are..... meh. They’re fairly smooth and stable, but otherwise utterly uninspiring, at least for me.

Overall, it’s pretty similar in my view to MX keyboards. A bit better fit and finish maybe, and nicer keycaps for sure. But nothing to write home about. At least it’s portable and pretty quiet? Makes it better for taking to coffeeshops, etc. than most standard keyboards.

[jacobolus]

Chyros: how do you manage to accidentally type a whole line of spaces with your left thumb, when you use your right index finger to press the spacebar?

[Chyros]

Chyros: how do you manage to accidentally type a whole line of spaces with your left thumb, when you use your right index finger to press the spacebar?

My thumb rests on it.

[Spikebolt]

Kinda want to try a BTC now! XD