Prototyping the next thing

[Muirium]

will we be able to get it in europe without having to go through massdrop ?

if there's enough interest. yes

"Enough" is a relative term. Say there was as much interest in Europe for this as there was for White Fox: would that be enough for us to avoid America, MassDrop and ruinous import taxes?

[sphinx]

will we be able to get it in europe without having to go through massdrop ?

if there's enough interest. yes

"Enough" is a relative term. Say there was as much interest in Europe for this as there was for White Fox: would that be enough for us to avoid America, MassDrop and ruinous import taxes?

or just run 2 parallel group buys, one on massdrop and another in europe.. is this viable ?

how can we gather interest in europe to find if its feasible ?

[matt3o]

the production would be decoupled from massdrop, massdrop would be just a dealer. we could run any number of keyboards and sell to anyone we want (in Europe as well, if there's someone interested in selling them).

now if the question is if *I* am willing to buy directly and ship to you guys... I dunno, I prefer to design things than wrapping and shipping boxes

[scottc]

What about someone like MechSupply? We'd just need to convince them to not take an obscenely large cut.

[matt3o]

there are a couple of options. Including bunnylake, or maybe even 7bit. As soon as I have a working prototype we will sort that out. I'm sure we'll find a solution. I'm European too guys (geographically speaking... remark needed for the UK gentlemen)

[Wodan]

Did you hear that ? I think 7bit just registered the username "Foxbot"

[Muirium]

A sanely priced, Europe available, Matteo designed Alps 60% with Bluetooth… BELIEVE!!

(Scots are European too. It's the English who are super touchy about it. Some old rivalry with France.)

[vivalarevolución]

What is the hassle with Massdrop shipping to the EU? All the customs fees on top of the high cost of shipping? Is there something else on top of that?

[Ratfink]

I am just throwing a crazy idea out there although Ill back this what every layout and I love the HHKB with the 2.5 space.

keyboard-layout (5).jpg

I recommend throwing this idea out to Ortholinear Keyboards, if anywhere.

Not a bad Idea, it needs some work for sure before its ready as well.

The most notable bit of work it needs is the reintroduction of the letter Y.

[flabbergast]

What is the hassle with Massdrop shipping to the EU? All the customs fees on top of the high cost of shipping? Is there something else on top of that?

Basically, yes. The customs/tax/fees tend also to be somewhat random, which adds to the annoyance.

[Muirium]

To be more concrete: for $200 worth of keyboard and parts, you could be talking $200 more in shipping and taxes to actually get your hands on it in Britain. Or just $100. But maybe $300! Nobody knows!! It really is bananas. And you have to wait weeks extra. And the customs guys often damage stuff and if they don't Parcelforce will!

It's a total shitshow. A complete deal breaker.

[sphinx]

buying from the US in Portugal means at least an extra 30% in custom fees over the price of the item plus shipping.

so if you buy something for 80$, plus 20$ shipping, you'll pay 100$ + ~30$ of custom fees

[vivalarevolución]

Ouch. Maybe time to open a European office?

[KRKS]

I wouldn't buy from EU Massdrop because of the damage to the community group buys(SP even admitted that they have priority) and annoying and allegedly illegal practices.

[matt3o]

be careful with that kind of public statements.

[Muirium]

It's safe if you use weasel words, and they allegedly don't come any more weaselly!

[Wodan]

Let's not turn this into a big massdrop bashing here. My problem with getting stuff from the US is the shipping and customs. And this will happen with any US based group buy.

I am pretty confident that something matt3o comes up with has the potential to reach significant and sufficient numbers here in EU/Europe as well. The big question for me is what does matt3o need in terms of infrastructure and funds to split his next group buy into CONUS and EU (GB also can)

Another big question is whether Massdrop will allow this at all, selling the same product in parallel for a different (cheaper?) price elsewhere... ?

[Muirium]

One idea would be to arrange a European proxy *within* a Massdrop GB. It would still be one big GB, single sourced, but with tweaked distribution to avoid the hellstorm of hundreds of individual customs fees on already pricey Atlantic shipping.

But that doesn't sidestep the other objections people have to Massdrop. We would still be their customers, if indirectly.

[Wodan]

Not against this idea. Though the shipping cost for the WhiteFox were insanely low compared to all other keyboard kits I've seen since. Inner-EU shipping is more expensive than what Massdrop was charging for the WhiteFox. But getting the stuff here in a low Tax/Customs country would be sweet. I'm starting to understand the 19% here in Germany isn't too bad after all. I'm sure there's cheaper places though.

[Muirium]

Yeah, like most of the US, where you pay zero!

(I don't know where Massdrop is technically located, but when I bought caps from EliteKeyboards in LA, I had to pay 8% California sales tax because I was in the same state. But buying from out of state carries no tax.)

Germany is definitely better than Britain. 20% here, plus a spin of the roulette wheel. It gets real ugly, even on tiny imports.

[Wodan]

Oh lol a handling fee. Those bloodsuckers !
Only had this once when an item was delivered by UPS and Massdrop actually refunded the handling/broker fees.

All this talking about imports makes me wanna have my Whitefox right meow

[vivalarevolución]

So, anyways, that next keyboard project...

(I accept partial blame for diverting the thread)

[KRKS]

be careful with that kind of public statements.

Why am I not surprised by MD's poster boy on DT threatening me...

[mohitgarg]

be careful with that kind of public statements.

Why am I not surprised by MD's poster boy on DT threatening me...

That was below the belt. matt3o has been an integral part of the keyboard community for a very long time and I (and surely many others) really appreciate his efforts in custom keyboards/guides/etc.

[matt3o]

oh, that was just a friendly advice, you can say whatever you want about MD as long as you are aware that American companies take defamation pretty seriously. Then you have internet always proving itself, but that's another story. ("threatening", seriously?!)

[vivalarevolución]

Massdrop is a company providing a service for some hobby communities. Traditional methods of distributions of goods in the hobby community might be affected. In our quasi-free market economy, New companies are allowed to form and provide a service or sell a good. Sometimes other companies or individuals or groups are affected the success of a new company in the niche of the market.

If you are going to rail against Massdrop on some grounds (moral, ethical, economic, whatever), just focus your rage on capitalism in general, because that is the real culprit.

I will charge for further education in Economics 101, just send payment to my PayPal account.

[Halvar]

And if you talk nonsense on a forum, we should blame not you but the first amendmend, right?

The example for the second amendment is left as an exercise to the reader...

[filet]

Please don't make the battery integrated because when they lose their ability to keep their charge,finding a replacement will be difficult, unlike eneloops, which will hopefully still be around when my kids can use a keyboard.
But if there comes an integrated battery that doesn't bloat or lose it ability to charge even after 1000+ charges, and can still keep it's charge even after being left for a couple of years, why not? But until then, AA/AAA is the most practical for extending the life of the keyboard.

Do you have plans on open sourcing RGB and Wireless keyboard like the Infinity 60%?

[matt3o]

I'm not sure yet if the firmware can be open sourced. I'm totally pushing in that direction but it doesn't depend solely on me.

[Wodan]

It is gonna be TMK compatible though right ?
I mean as long as we can just put TMK on it, we've got something open source to work with.
Don't bother too much getting the sweet I:C firmware open source.