Yet another Retr0brite Thread, with Science!
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- Location: Des Moines / Cedar Falls, IA, USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Model F107
- DT Pro Member: 0190
Hello all, I've been reading up on Retr0brite and finally decided to give it a go. There doesn't seem to be an agreed upon best setup, so I thought I'd try a few different ways and report back with my findings.
So far, the information I have as to the ideal setup is limited since I just started, but results look pretty promising and I feel this is definitely something that a lot of users would find helpful for their yellowed caps/cases.
One of the more interesting concepts I'd heard is that hydrogen peroxide isn't actually needed at all and that oxiclean alone will work. Peroxide gets kind of expensive if you are wanting to do an entire case and it has to sit in a few gallons of it to cover evenly. I'd read about making it into more of a paste, but that seems like unnecessary risk of uneven whitening sometimes referred to as "blooming" as opposed to a homogenous bath. I'd heard 3% works just as well as 30% too, I imagine it just goes slower with 3%. I only have access to 3% at the moment, but will probably try some stronger stuff later down the line.
I thought it would be ideal to be able to mix my own concentrations of hydrogen peroxide and wondered if there was an anydrous form (which I wasn't really expecting to find since H2O2 is pretty much just water with an extra hydrogen, so subtracting the water molecule wouldn't leave much, but it turns out there is something that can be used to make it: Sodium Percarbonate, and I was somewhat surprised to find out that is the active ingredient in oxiclean, which explains why oxiclean alone might work for this. Apparently a fully saturated oxiclean solution is the equivalent to about 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, so it's not like it's any more concentrated, but should be a lot cheaper to make a decent quantity and easier to store.
Another odd thing was that there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what UV light is best. The creator mentioned 320nm light being ideal for vibrating bromine atoms, but I couldn't really find anything online that backs this up. If anyone has any info on why 320nm is supposed to be ideal, I'd love to hear it. Anyhow, I went with Reptiglo 10.0 24 inch bulbs from Amazon which claim 10% UVB which is centered right around 320nm. Kind of hard to tell what it's actually outputting since it looks pretty similar to a regular 6500K flourescent bulb.
Next consideration I had was maybe putting a bulb below the container so that light could come in on both sides lessening the need to stir the keycaps as frequently. Apparently a lot of materials are poorly transparent to UV, so I'm working on ways to check if specific containers are UV transparent or not and I've got some UV sensitive beads and a UV index meter on the way to try to get an idea of how much UV through a material like Corning glass gets filtered out. These are on the way and I'll report back eventually
Here are my initial results done on rather uniformly yellowed WYSE keycaps. The keys on the right are grey, and those on the left are white. The center two are oxiclean ONLY (Page Up and &7), the two on either side of those (F5 and F10) are 3% hydrogen peroxide and a teaspoon of oxiclean, and the ones on the outside edge of the top row are untreated (7home and Delete). The treated ones were exposed to the same UV light for the same time period of about 18 hours stirring every hour or two:
Sunlight works too, but I'll concentrate on the UV light for now as that's likely more consistent and easier to experiment with.
I'll keep giving updates as I have them, so let me know if there's anything you want me to try and I'll see what I can do
So far, the information I have as to the ideal setup is limited since I just started, but results look pretty promising and I feel this is definitely something that a lot of users would find helpful for their yellowed caps/cases.
One of the more interesting concepts I'd heard is that hydrogen peroxide isn't actually needed at all and that oxiclean alone will work. Peroxide gets kind of expensive if you are wanting to do an entire case and it has to sit in a few gallons of it to cover evenly. I'd read about making it into more of a paste, but that seems like unnecessary risk of uneven whitening sometimes referred to as "blooming" as opposed to a homogenous bath. I'd heard 3% works just as well as 30% too, I imagine it just goes slower with 3%. I only have access to 3% at the moment, but will probably try some stronger stuff later down the line.
I thought it would be ideal to be able to mix my own concentrations of hydrogen peroxide and wondered if there was an anydrous form (which I wasn't really expecting to find since H2O2 is pretty much just water with an extra hydrogen, so subtracting the water molecule wouldn't leave much, but it turns out there is something that can be used to make it: Sodium Percarbonate, and I was somewhat surprised to find out that is the active ingredient in oxiclean, which explains why oxiclean alone might work for this. Apparently a fully saturated oxiclean solution is the equivalent to about 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, so it's not like it's any more concentrated, but should be a lot cheaper to make a decent quantity and easier to store.
Another odd thing was that there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what UV light is best. The creator mentioned 320nm light being ideal for vibrating bromine atoms, but I couldn't really find anything online that backs this up. If anyone has any info on why 320nm is supposed to be ideal, I'd love to hear it. Anyhow, I went with Reptiglo 10.0 24 inch bulbs from Amazon which claim 10% UVB which is centered right around 320nm. Kind of hard to tell what it's actually outputting since it looks pretty similar to a regular 6500K flourescent bulb.
Next consideration I had was maybe putting a bulb below the container so that light could come in on both sides lessening the need to stir the keycaps as frequently. Apparently a lot of materials are poorly transparent to UV, so I'm working on ways to check if specific containers are UV transparent or not and I've got some UV sensitive beads and a UV index meter on the way to try to get an idea of how much UV through a material like Corning glass gets filtered out. These are on the way and I'll report back eventually
Here are my initial results done on rather uniformly yellowed WYSE keycaps. The keys on the right are grey, and those on the left are white. The center two are oxiclean ONLY (Page Up and &7), the two on either side of those (F5 and F10) are 3% hydrogen peroxide and a teaspoon of oxiclean, and the ones on the outside edge of the top row are untreated (7home and Delete). The treated ones were exposed to the same UV light for the same time period of about 18 hours stirring every hour or two:
Sunlight works too, but I'll concentrate on the UV light for now as that's likely more consistent and easier to experiment with.
I'll keep giving updates as I have them, so let me know if there's anything you want me to try and I'll see what I can do
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- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Filco ZERO green alps, Model F 122 Terminal
- Main mouse: Ducky Secret / Roller Mouse Pro 1
- Favorite switch: MX Mount Topre / Model F Buckling
- DT Pro Member: 0167
On having a bulb under it.
Apparently tinfoil is very good at reflecting UV so you could have that under it and just have the one bulb ( saves on costs) or have it where there is no bulb to better spread it around.
Don't use a mirror apparently they are crap at reflecting UV and will not work well.
When i used just pure H2O2 ( wish we could do subscript numbers on this form) i put it in normal clear plastic tray you get takeaway in and put a sheet of tinfoil under it , it did mix the caps but this method worked quite well, i was however using the mad scientist 9% stuff.
If someone went into my outside storage chest they would get worried all there is in there is a jetwash a crap ton of H2O2 and a few bags of powdered C18H34O2 ( for cleaning rust off the patio ).
Don't forget , no spilling H2O2 on your gentleman's sausage.
Apparently tinfoil is very good at reflecting UV so you could have that under it and just have the one bulb ( saves on costs) or have it where there is no bulb to better spread it around.
Don't use a mirror apparently they are crap at reflecting UV and will not work well.
When i used just pure H2O2 ( wish we could do subscript numbers on this form) i put it in normal clear plastic tray you get takeaway in and put a sheet of tinfoil under it , it did mix the caps but this method worked quite well, i was however using the mad scientist 9% stuff.
If someone went into my outside storage chest they would get worried all there is in there is a jetwash a crap ton of H2O2 and a few bags of powdered C18H34O2 ( for cleaning rust off the patio ).
Don't forget , no spilling H2O2 on your gentleman's sausage.
Last edited by andrewjoy on 14 Apr 2016, 17:13, edited 1 time in total.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
OR SPLASHING IT IN YOUR EYES !!!!andrewjoy wrote: ↑
Don't forget , no spilling H2O2 on your gentleman's sausage.
-
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Filco ZERO green alps, Model F 122 Terminal
- Main mouse: Ducky Secret / Roller Mouse Pro 1
- Favorite switch: MX Mount Topre / Model F Buckling
- DT Pro Member: 0167
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
That sounds more like it, even I can't get 90% :p .
9% isn't really that strong, that's actually TOO WEAK for me to be able to order xD . Still, is getting a fair amount of that not somewhat expensive?
- derzemel
- Location: Bucharest, Romania
- Main keyboard: FC660C, SSK, TX-1800 Nixie
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 7000
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCL/SKCM tactile
I bought a bottle of this thing for my retr0brite project:
this is practically a cream that hair saloons use to make the hair white and to prepare it for dye.
It contains 9% H202 and it is already in an emulsion form, so no need to mess with starch and other stuff.
Also, I paid the equivalent of 3 Eur for a litre.
They also make a 12% version of it, for almost the same price:
I now need to find a damn UV lamp and the support for it so I can stick it in an outlet. That has proven really hard to do locally and I would like to avoid buying one online.
this is practically a cream that hair saloons use to make the hair white and to prepare it for dye.
It contains 9% H202 and it is already in an emulsion form, so no need to mess with starch and other stuff.
Also, I paid the equivalent of 3 Eur for a litre.
They also make a 12% version of it, for almost the same price:
I now need to find a damn UV lamp and the support for it so I can stick it in an outlet. That has proven really hard to do locally and I would like to avoid buying one online.
-
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Filco ZERO green alps, Model F 122 Terminal
- Main mouse: Ducky Secret / Roller Mouse Pro 1
- Favorite switch: MX Mount Topre / Model F Buckling
- DT Pro Member: 0167
Mine was suposed to be 12% but it had 9% in the small print on the bottle.
Still enough to turn your shin white.
Still enough to turn your shin white.
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Damn, that is a lot cheaper than I thought Oo .
I wouldn't normally bother with this but one board I got recently has a particularly ugly yellow case (actually orange) with splotches all around the board - I might try and whiten it at some point. Not sure about the logistics yet - maybe I'll have to use my bath xD .
I wouldn't normally bother with this but one board I got recently has a particularly ugly yellow case (actually orange) with splotches all around the board - I might try and whiten it at some point. Not sure about the logistics yet - maybe I'll have to use my bath xD .
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- Location: Des Moines / Cedar Falls, IA, USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Model F107
- DT Pro Member: 0190
It doesn't seem to hurt pad printing at all. Tried it on my blue Alps IBM Clone (just the keys so far) and this is the result:gogusrl wrote: ↑dumb question : is there any chance to ruin the pad print on the keys ? I wanna retrobright these
The yellowed ones were all pad printed (so 8,9, = and the F row) the rest were PBT and I didn’t need to retr0brite those