Can we design the teensy alternative for keyboards?

[Matt_]

Ooh, right. That's pretty smart

[matt3o]

indeed it's "ELF"

I may make it more evident... but I kinda like it subtle

[mohitgarg]

Looks cute!

[matt3o]

made the "E" more obvious

logo-1.svg.png (3.21 KiB) Viewed 5836 times

before

Spoiler:

[Ray]

Ah, I thought it would be ELF but still couldn't see the 'E'. Now it is discernible for me.

[mohitgarg]

made the "E" more obvious

logo-1.svg.png

before

Spoiler:

I like the subtlety of the earlier version, but would prefer the second for easier identification.

[matt3o]

Source

https://github.com/elf-io/elf-logo

[matt3o]

quick update.

MD might be also interested at selling this controller, of course they wouldn't have exclusivity and we will still produce the needed boards for ourselves but that would let us reach higher tiers (=lower costs).

In addition to that I was thinking we could also design 3-4 barebone keyboard PCBs compatible with our controller. Basically you plug in the controller and you get a fully functional PCB. Would be nice to have a standard 60% (possibly alps/mx), maybe a 65% or 75% and so on.

also, would it be possible to design the ELF board pinout for kicad? we could offer that as well I guess

[mohitgarg]

I'll be travelling because of work this week, but I should be able to have the PCB done on this weekend.

Regarding the barebones PCBs, It should be possible and specially with the controller sorted out, it should be a quick job. I'd like to concentrate my efforts on the ELF this weekend, I can then look to design ELF-TKL, ELF-60, ELF-65, ELF-75. About the 60/65/75, what are your thoughts on one single PCB, with breakable (Might need a bit of sawing) top row and right-most column.

Regarding the pinout, currently the pins on the last design consist of various KiCAD components. However now that the new layout seems to be figured out, I was thinking of using one large component. This can easily be exported and made available for use, along with a nice illustration of the pin-outs.

[matt3o]

I'll be travelling because of work this week, but I should be able to have the PCB done on this weekend.

no worries, take your time!

About the 60/65/75, what are your thoughts on one single PCB, with breakable (Might need a bit of sawing) top row and right-most column.

that might actually work pretty well! I was thinking the 75 could be with F-row on the left instead of on top. I dunno just a thought. I honestly haven't put my head too much on it. A not-staggered version might also be nice, but anyway let's concentrate on the controller first

[Matt_]

The idea of a larger PCB with breakout sections is interesting, but they would need to be easy enough to remove (without sawing — PCB dust is a health hazard, so breaking is better) while remaining strong enough when attached. Cost-wise, I'm not sure whether this would be preferrable to several fixed-size PCBs, MD may have the final word on that.

So, perhaps something like this?



That could work if the main cluster is as versatile as the Whitefox. Also, I tried to make my own 65% project convertible to most regular 60% layouts by removing the rightmost column and providing for the proper switch locations, so I think it's possible to make just one big versatile board like this. But perhaps potential buyers would deem it too complex and prefer PCBs of different sizes.

Also, backlit or not?

[matt3o]

cost-wise I don't know what would be better but I like the idea of a modular universal PCB if it's easy to break.

Matt_'s mockup is actually pretty nice, I don't know if I'd like the top F-row connected to the number row. Anyway having 2 options for the top row might be an issue since the ELF board should be designed to be positioned both under the F-row and the number row. Not sure if even possible.

Backlight you say? weeell... why not Of course we also need split spacebar probably

[pomk]

Hi all, I've been following this thread closely and I wonder if something like this could be useful?

demo.png (497.84 KiB) Viewed 5697 times

I did not route it beyond checking that it's probably doable with some component position fine-tuning, as routing this would take some time . I used 2mm pin headers and a mid-mounted USB connector, the same that is used in a number of Samsung phones. It fits neatly under a 2u space and can be directly mounted to two switches. Alternatively it could be fixed with some screws through the same holes. Some consideration should be taken as to how the mounted switches should be connected if a hand wired design is used.

I'm a bit late to the party, but hopefully this can give out some inspiration, or laughs .

edit: just noticed that I have the smd components on the wrong side

[mohitgarg]

I was thinking of adding backlight and RGB LEDs on the bottom, but looks like you want backlight only

Regarding the backlight, how do you want it, all controlled together or individually addressable?

Matt30, until we get the MCU board done, maybe we can explore the possible supported layouts for the 60%, then we can just add the extra row and column for the 65%/75% later.

[Matt_]

I think that uniform backlight under all keys would be sufficient, the ability to adjust the intensity via a key combination seems more useful to me than individually addressable LEDs. Something like 5 intensity levels would be nice, but I guess that could be changed in the firmware if needed.

RGB LEDs on the bottom? Why not, if there enough space and it doesn't impair other essential features!

[matt3o]

Hi all, I've been following this thread closely and I wonder if something like this could be useful?

demo.png

This is an interesting concept. What are the exact dimension of this board? You would also need to consider other switch orientations (namely upside down ) and compatibility with alps.

I was thinking of adding backlight and RGB LEDs on the bottom, but looks like you want backlight only

I don't think it is necessary, but if it doesn't hurt... I'm not against it

Matt30, until we get the MCU board done, maybe we can explore the possible supported layouts for the 60%, then we can just add the extra row and column for the 65%/75% later.

Totally agree!

[flabbergast]

I've been busy with work&family recently, but I may have some time later this week. I can take a stab at the controller (if Mohit agrees

[mohitgarg]

I've got the pin layout created as a component and the schematics updated as well. I'll upload to the GitHub repo later today.

[Matt_]

Here are the most obvious variations that we can implement on the PCB:



Support for ISO and split backspace are not hard to implement (even with PCB-mounted Cherry stabs) so I see no reason to skip them. The bottom row will be a more difficult to design properly, but IIRC it's possible to implement all these variations (I'll have to check my project folder). Still, maybe we can drop one or two, or add others, I don't know.

I'm not sure we should allow for a top F-row either, unless we find a convenient way to accomodate the controller & USB port while keeping the top of the board modular.

If you want to play with it, here is the link for the layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... 749d90f829

[Phenix]

will there also be split spacebars support? (hopefully with much possibilities)

[matt3o]

yeah @Matt_ I believe you pretty much nailed it, we just miss a split spacebar and we are good to go

we could add a right side numpad module if we really really wanted but it becomes a pretty huge PCB

[Matt_]

The problem if we add a numpad this way is that if you cut the last column of the main block to get a 60%, you also cut the numpad. So it's either 65% + numpad or 60% alone.

But we could add pads on the right side of the PCB (between the last two columns) so that people could wire a separate numpad PCB (it doesn't matter that the two PCBs are separate if the whole board is plate-mounted). Like this:



All we need is provide a way to connect to the matrix, and then maybe offer a separate numpad PCB, or people could even design their own.

[matt3o]

If you put the numpad you don't need the last column of the 65%, so basically the last column of the 65% becomes the first of the numpad.

This would be the cut-out schema

Code: Select all

  1        2        3  4
|**|***************|*|***|
|**|***************|*|***|
|**|***************|*|***|
|**|***************|*|***|
|**|***************|*|***|

1. Function row
2. pure 60%
2+3. 65%
2+3+4. 60%+numpad

but like I said, not strictly needed.

[Matt_]

Oh, that makes much more sense, right.

[Nuum]

I like where this is going, I always loved the "65% + functions row to the left" layout, similar ot hte Kmac mini.
A split spacebar would be nice, e.g 2.25u+1.5u+2.25u

[Matt_]

That makes 6u. I have no idea how split spacebars are usually implemented, but shouldn't we aim at the same footprint as a 6.25u spacebar so as not to shift all the mods on the right? There will be enough holes on both sides of the spacebar as it is.

[Phenix]

Or something stab-less like with 1.5u/1.25u/1u (in combination with trackpoint may be useful)

typos due to my touch screen are possible

[mohitgarg]

It was considerably easier to route this because of the larger area. I'll upload this to the Git soon. If you want we can fit the logo on the front as well. Dimensions are 38.1 x 17.78 (+2.9718) mm

[matt3o]

wouldn't printing on 2 sides be more expensive? I would also add "https://elf.io" and the board revision. "Elf 1.0 - https://elf.io" (all people involved will be credited on the website of course)

Apart from that the only thing that worries me a little is 38.1mm width

[derzemel]

quick question if you do not mind... could this controller be used with a FC660C to replace the daughter board and to add different functionalities or layouts?
I would really like to have volume control on the FC660C (like the HHKB)