Brexit: The DT Poll

[seebart]

I spent slightly over one decade living on the east coast near Washington D.C. and never saw one handgun or rifle the whole time (except cops)! But DC had a crazy high crime rate.

[andrewjoy]

Gun laws are a tricky subject , i can see that in some areas of the US it may be a handy tool to have a hunting rifle to protect yourself from the wildlife but i see no good reason whatsoever why a normal individual needs a fully automatic assault weapon , its mental.

A hunting rifle is designed for hunting, an assault rifle is designed for one thing and one thing only, to kill people.

[seebart]

A hunting rifle is designed for hunting, an assault rifle is designed for one thing and one thing only, to kill people.

Sure, there's a reason that shooter in Orlando was able to kill so many so quickly.

[Wodan]

The rifle used is a semi-automatic rifle, not an assualt rifle. Just because it looks like an M-16 or an M4 doent mean its fully automatic. The terrorists in Paris had real assault rifles with full-auto fire and have way stricter gun laws than the US.

[andrewjoy]

A hunting rifle is designed for hunting, an assault rifle is designed for one thing and one thing only, to kill people.

Sure, there's a reason that shooter in Orlando was able to kill so many so quickly.

I also read somewhere he had been investigated for terrorist type views/associations in the past. Why was he given permission to buy ANY weapon if thats the case ( unconfirmed i know but the point stands ).

Its not as if its 100% impossible to own a gun in the UK , the average jo cannot just walk into a shop and buy an M60 , but a farmer can have a gun with restrictions on storage and ammo and the likes and he has to go through a very rigorous process, one crime and your out , never again.

Similar situation for shooting cubs etc.

The rifle used is a semi-automatic rifle, not an assualt rifle. Just because it looks like an M-16 or an M4 doent mean its fully automatic. The terrorists in Paris had real assault rifles with full-auto fire and have way stricter gun laws than the US.

Thats still an unreasonable piece of kit for a normal citizen to have.

[seebart]

Regardless of who goes to the White House next year it'll be a long time before those laws are changed IMO.

[Wodan]

The math is simple. As a politician in the US, you have so much more to loose when supporting strict gun laws than there is go gain on the other side. The majority of people probably do not care enough about gun laws to have in influence their vote. The people who make their vote depending on a candidates view on gun laws are mostly gun nuts.

I pretty much give no fcks at all about US gun laws but that is the reality. People want it, let em have it.

Besides, why all the political talk here pals ... is there not enough to argue about why Topre is just overpriced rubberdomes and Gateron switches are as wobbly as a rats cock after mating season?

[cookie]

Just wan't to leave this here

[andrewjoy]

Just wan't to leave this here

Nail , hit on head!

[adhoc]

Am I the only who does not find this dude funny at all?

[cookie]

Probably, I love this guy!

[fohat]

Regardless of who goes to the White House next year it'll be a long time before those laws are changed IMO.

The problem is that it is not "laws" but the Constitution itself, which was written immediately after the overthrow of one government to establish another, and which consciously and deliberately sought to empower the people with the means to do it again, if need be. Jefferson, in particular, was particularly adamant about advocating insurrection.

Based in late-1700s technology, where a military weapon and a deer rifle were pretty much one and the same, and where a majority of the population already owned one, it was not really any big deal.

In discussing events like the September 11 "terror attack" we keep implicitly legitimizing the actions of the perpetrators as ideological or militaristic in nature, rather than calling them what they really are: huge and heinous criminal acts performed by criminals.

They will not stop until the perpetrators are thoroughly de-legitimized on every level, and in particular on any moral or religious level.

[jacobolus]

George Soros: “The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned”

And if there’s one guy who knows about making the British poorer via big economic shocks...

[7bit]

Not sure what the talk is all about, because I didn't follow this discussion during the last weeks.


BUT:
If you vote for "leave" then you will have to pay import tax on everything you order from Europe! Also, shipping costs will raise.


The good thing: £ will be weakened, so buying from the UK will be less expansive for us in the Euro-zone, even with customs fees added.


Downside for us:
All those extra refugees from the island who flee from upcoming economic problems, due to the Brexit.

[adhoc]

Noooo, not the UK refugees! I heard they make loud noises!

[Wodan]

Oooh finally some refugees that know how to form a proper line at the welfare office

[BimboBB]

A weak pound doesnt have to be something bad. Especially for the economy its even the opposite. As cheaper the own currency as more competitive you are. I mean that’s one of the biggest problems within the Eurozone….Countries who are tied to a currency which doesn’t reflect their economic strength and no way to influence it.

[emdude]

Oooh finally some refugees that know how to form a proper line at the welfare office

You mean a queue!

[Wodan]

UK hasn't been part of the Euro before and the GBP has been free floating all the time. It's not like an exit from the EU is finally releasing the GBP from a distorted exchange rate.

As you said, a weak currency can help the own industry/exports ... but you're omitting one important fact. The reason why a currency becomes weak is usually a negativ economical situation. To benefit from a weak currency properly, a countrie's industry must also be able to benefit from exports. Bad news for UK is that it's economy has a negative balance of trade for more than a decade now. That's situation in which a weak currency doesn't necessarily help. Look at South American countries with weak currencies and how great they are doing.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united- ... e-of-trade


That's the balance of trade that will go great with a weak currency:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany ... e-of-trade

@emdude: hell yeah. Please Q!

[BimboBB]

Bad news for UK is that it's economy has a negative balance of trade for more than a decade now. That's situation in which a weak currency doesn't necessarily help.[/url]

Why would a weaker currency not help? What would help than in yr opinion? Remaining in EU and keeping the negative trade balance....someone else will pay for it eventually?

[JBert]

The rifle used is a semi-automatic rifle, not an assualt rifle. Just because it looks like an M-16 or an M4 doent mean its fully automatic. The terrorists in Paris had real assault rifles with full-auto fire and have way stricter gun laws than the US.

Thats still an unreasonable piece of kit for a normal citizen to have.

Ehr, hold that thought. If you trust someone enough to allow one to own a gun then the type of gun doesn't really matter - all guns are built for killing. It's only the fully automatic ones which are made to terrorize your target(s) or to mow down large crowds - those kinds of guns are obviously not meant for sale.

All in all the M-16 or M-4 is just a handy rifle format when in semi-automatic form, they might actually be safer than your hypothetical granddad's hunting rifle because they're newly built and might be easier to maintain and replace parts of.

TLDR; Guns don't kill people, people do!

[7bit]

"Wow! an M-16 rifle!"


"Guess I can take it and shoot some .... "

Spoiler:

"... ducks with it."

[andrewjoy]

The problem with the almighty £ being weak is , the UK imports pretty much everything, our own resources can support about 10% of our population, thats why for the longest time the UK had to have the most powerful navy as it would have been very easy to blockade the british islands and starve it out, in WW2 is almost worked.

Not saying anyone is going to blockade the UK or anything but if you rely that heavily on imports you want your currency to be strong, if its weak everything will get more expensive. Combine that will mass unemployment and a fucked economy and you are up shit creek without a paddle.

This is what leave NEVER tell you , they say oh there is a problem with mass immigration we need to take back sovereignty from the EU as the commission is not elected , blah blah blah i don't care. Hell they think that the EU will become a superstate with an unelected parliament, they are totally detached from reality.

But even if all that is true , the only think that really matters is the economy and how much money the average person has to spend on there family, and that WILL be better in the EU that out of it , if you think otherwise then you are ether lying or an idiot.

And if you want to tall about sovereignty, the UK does not have an elected head of state , they are " appointed by god" .

And honestly even if it was true, would a " United States of Europe" really be so bad ? Overnight it would become the most powerful nation in the world with the strongest economy , that has to be good for the people in it.

[7bit]

The geographic consequences of the Brexit:

Europe_topography_map_brexit.png (600.38 KiB) Viewed 4668 times

[Halvar]

Who let Iceland come so near?

If the UK could just untie the whole island and sail it away towards America or Australia or whatever, that would make it a lot easier! As it is, they will still need to import a lot of stuff from Europe just because it's so near. And that'll definitely become more expensive with a Brexit.

[Wodan]

Why would a weaker currency not help? What would help than in yr opinion? Remaining in EU and keeping the negative trade balance....someone else will pay for it eventually?

Having a negative trade balance means that your economy is importing more wares than it is exporting. Thus a weaker currency is primarily making these dominant IMPORTS more expensive. Exports in the other hand will have to raise just to make up for their loss in value due to the weaker currency. And where does the UK have good potential for export growth? Their economy is strongly moving towards a service industry which will get less competitive if the locale wages are paid in a weaker currency. People earning GBP in London City will feel a drop in their salary when the GBP drops.

[BimboBB]

Having a negative trade balance means that your economy is importing more wares than it is exporting. Thus a weaker currency is primarily making these dominant IMPORTS more expensive. Exports in the other hand will have to raise just to make up for their loss in value due to the weaker currency.

Negative trade balance means you are spending more money on imports than you collect with exports. Cheaper currency means yr export goods are getting cheaper for the buyers, so usally it raises yr exports. As imports getting more expansive now, usally imports decreases and local folks is looking more for local stuff. So all in all a cheap currency usally has positive effects on trade balance. That’s at least why countries used to inflate their currency.

And where does the UK have good potential for export growth? Their economy is strongly moving towards a service industry which will get less competitive if the locale wages are paid in a weaker currency.

Service industry is profiting huge from weaker currency!!! Yr services becoming cheaper for the whole world.

People earning GBP in London City will feel a drop in their salary when the GBP drops.

Yes.

[Wodan]

Negative trade balance means you are spending more money on imports than you collect with exports. Cheaper currency means yr export goods are getting cheaper for the buyers, so usally it raises yr exports. As imports getting more expansive now, usally imports decreases and local folks is looking more for local stuff. So all in all a cheap currency usally has positive effects on trade balance. That’s at least why countries used to inflate their currency.

That's all thinking one step too short. There is no automatism that will replace imports with local goods and there is no automatism that will increase exports when a currency gets weaker. Great example of this is Switzerland that went through a very abrupt and massive change in their currencys value yet their balance of trade was hardly affected:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/switzer ... e-of-trade

Following your logic, Switzerland would have replaced local goods with cheap imports and experienced a sharp drop in exports. That only happened on a very large scale, hard to pinpoint the exact moment at which their currency went through the roof when looking at the graphs of their imports and exports.

Of course it's the opposite direction but this is a very recent, great example of how your assumptions are just abstract theories and are rarely a reality.

In oder to replace their imports with locale wares, they'd have to be produced locally in the first place. To be able to produce alot of these wares locally, the required production capacities have to be created. To create these, you will very likely have to import tons of machinery and other resources. It's also a long process.

Same with the exports. There must be wares to be exported in the first place. The demand for these wares must also be very price sensitive in order to suddenly rise due to a weakened currency. Maybe I just have too many prejudices about the export industry of the UK but I can hardly imagine many wares/services/goods that would significantly improve the UK's position on a global market. Most price sensitive wares have long since moved to other countries where they can in fact be produced at a significantly cheaper rate.

Service industry is profiting huge from weaker currency!!! Yr services becoming cheaper for the whole world.

What services would that be? The dominant service sector - financial services - will struggle with the weaker currency. Their business can happen anywhere on the world and the people who do these jobs will not just settle with a net loss in salary.



Sorry for the long post but it is such a pleasure to type on a Model-F that I didn't even try to keep it short.

[jacobolus]

The geographic consequences of the Brexit:

You forgot Scotland.

[Redmaus]

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