Brexit: The DT Poll

[andrewjoy]

Cameron's (and Johnson's) idea of taking a slow approach might be pretty clever politically, but I guess economy & finance are less amused about that. Seems like we might see general elections in the UK before the Article 20 process is even started ... And depending on how that goes, who knows if a new government even feels bound by the referendum..

Exactly.

The whole thing is just totally insane! It also feels like the whole leave side don't have a fucking clue what they are going to do now.



Does this look like a man who has just won the biggest victory of his career ? Something that will send him down in history.

This man looks broken, he looks terrified. And that ladies and gentlemen is who will be leading this process.

We must have a general election before article 50 is invoked. Perhaps then people will realise what a terrible mistake they have made and vote for an anti brexit party.

All our leaders at the moment in the EU ( and the UK ) are lame ducks, they don't have a fucking clue. Where is Otto when you need him.

[Wodan]

This period of uncertainty mostly hurts the UK. After all, companies have to assume the worst when making a decision now if they want to act responsible.

No matter how this turns out in the long term ... there's some rough times ahead in the UK and I am very sorry for the current young generation. I wouldn't want to be looking for a job in the next 3-5 years in the UK. Look at what a few rough years have done to a whole generation in countries like Spain or Greece.

But maybe this is just another OXI vote ...

Regarding Boris Johnson ... I'm sorry but he's just daydreaming.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... --and-alw/

There's things he's promising there that even exceed the relationship the EU has with countries like Switzerland or Norway. I mean the UK had a very priviledged membership in the EU and now they want to come to a point where they even have a clearly one sided relationship:

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down.

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry.

[webwit]

Yes, let's invalidate all elections and votes where you lose, on the basis you don't like the other side and claiming incompetence. Dictators is what you need if you are on the losing side. Also, I found a silly picture, therefore she is not competent and it's valid to get rid of her.

[seebart]

Also, I found a silly picture, therefore she is not competent and it's valid to get rid of her.

You don't need to post that mediocre picture, I could have told you that years ago!

[andrewjoy]

Yes, let's invalidate all elections and votes where you lose, on the basis you don't like the other side and claiming incompetence.

I don't have to claim incompetence of the whole brexit idea, the evidence speaks for itself , look at the value of our currency , look at the collapse of the markets , look at the number of big financial institutions pulling out of the UK.

[seebart]

The UK probably could have negotiated some of their concerns with Brussels without envoking this chaotic Brexit situation, but it seems to me that Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and others had exactly this in mind...

[kbdfr]

I seem to be the only one here,
but in my opinion Merkel’s decision to open the German borders for refugees is one of the very,very few
(together with the German "Nuclexit" after Fukushima)
for which she deserves approval instead of critics.

And honestly,
when e.g. African fishers try to reach Europe after their fishing grounds have been ruined by the EU fishery industry,
and are rejected because they are "only" economic migrants and not political refugees,
I am not very proud of being a EU citizen.

But well, the Stock Exchange is of more concern, of course

[Wodan]

I guess there's tons of reasons to hate or love Merkel. A lot of them even work both ways

[BimboBB]

Imho open borders for "refugees" goes hand in hand with stock markets. Cheap workers are always good, especially if the government(tax payer) takes over the education costs before handing them out to the industry.

[seebart]

From a purely humanitarian standpoint I agree with you kbdfr, the logistical aspects of taking care of and ultimately integrating over 1 million people is another matter altogether.

[Wodan]

ERMAGRRD can we please change the subject back to Brexit before something terrible happens. Please start a refugee conversation in a different thread.

[kbdfr]

[…] Cheap workers are always good, especially if the government(tax payer) takes over the education costs before handing them out to the industry.

The tax payers just reinvest what they saved on fish sticks

ERMAGRRD can we please change the subject back to Brexit before something terrible happens. Please start a refugee conversation in a different thread.

Isn’t immigration one of the main reasons why the Leavers won?

But you are right. That is a different discussion.

[seebart]

The tax payers just reinvest what they saved on fish sticks

Doesn't work that way and you know it!

image.gif (477.3 KiB) Viewed 4353 times

[Wodan]

UK's main issue with immigration is EU citizens relocating to the UK and then ... TAK ALL TEH WELFARE AND HEALTHCARE

[Halvar]

Yes, let's invalidate all elections and votes where you lose, on the basis you don't like the other side and claiming incompetence. Dictators is what you need if you are on the losing side.

Well in this case there is a majority in parliament against Brexit, and if they do have early elections this fact will probably not change.

[andrewjoy]

The problem is thats not true, EU immigration ( well before all this brexit i would not even consider it immigration ) contribute more to tax and the NHS than they take out.

Some people voted leave because they want to " Stop the muslims" but where " fine with EU migration" (there is a direct quote), when you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation as that then how can you be expected to make a decision on it ?

One thing i DO have a problem with with EU immigration is , if I as a ( currently at least) EU citizen was to move to Sweden i would have to have a job or have the means to support myself. In the UK however you don't , you can just come even if you don't have a job, the direct quote form the uk.gov website is " must be seeking work".

Now to address the concerns of the " immigrants are coming in and sitting on the dole " crowd would it not have been sensible for the UK to change the policy to similar to Sweden's rules and then propaganda the shit out of it ?

Oh and the whole vote itself is not legally binding , so a new government could just ignore it yes.

In my view less than 2% ether way is not enough to make this much of a critical decision.

[webwit]

You're throwing a tantrum because you lost a vote.

[andrewjoy]

You're throwing a tantrum because you lost a vote.

Its not a tantrum , its genuine concern that my country is now going to go to shit.

What , you think its a good idea we have basically decided that we are going to burn 100s Billions of pounds for no good reason ?

[fohat]

You're throwing a tantrum because you lost a vote.

Its not a tantrum , its genuine concern that my country is now going to go to shit.

What , you think its a good idea we have basically decided that we are going to burn 100s Billions of pounds for no good reason ?

Brexit, Republicans, fundamentalists - the ignorant people on this planet really are in a race to the bottom.

And the rest of us just shake our heads in disbelief and can't figure out what to do because we value information and devalue emotion, and can't work the other side of the equation.

[flabbergast]

One thing i DO have a problem with with EU immigration is , if I as a ( currently at least) EU citizen was to move to Sweden i would have to have a job or have the means to support myself. In the UK however you don't , you can just come even if you don't have a job, the direct quote form the uk.gov website is " must be seeking work".

This is a problem with UK laws, not with EU - you already give an example of an EU country which does it differently. IMO pretty much the whole UK benefit system is batshit insane.

[webwit]

You're throwing a tantrum because you lost a vote.

Its not a tantrum , its genuine concern that my country is now going to go to shit.

What , you think its a good idea we have basically decided that we are going to burn 100s Billions of pounds for no good reason ?

So we can never have any major social or political change ever again even if voted for, because people with too much money bought pieces of companies and gamble with the value of these and they don't like uncertainty and move the assets elsewhere while things are settling? We should now ask for permission of any change at our banks and financial overlords? The same overlords who fucked us majorly in the ass because of their unprecedented greed and socialized the bad assets so they get out and we get the bill? Really? They don't give a fuck about the people. Why aren't these criminals in jail like in Iceland?

[andrewjoy]

But this rolls downhill , if large companies and banks and the likes pull out this has an effect on service companies who have to cut jobs and so on. Its not as if the banks and big business don't effect you, they do.

Political ideas are nice , but they don't put food on the table , they don't treat the sick they don't rebuild infrastructure , money does.

[webwit]

No greed is good rhetoric? Because then it's a good thing. Company sells assets in the UK, buys in the Netherlands, moves to Amsterdam No money burning, just winners and losers, as capitalism is supposed to work. More food on the table here. You didn't care about the losers at the east coast, so seems fair game. I'll call the losers racist idiots in case they complain.

[seebart]

In an interview with the New Statesman, the political philosopher Michael Sandel:

A large constituency of working-class voters feel that not only has the economy left them behind, but so has the culture, that the sources of their dignity, the dignity of labor, have been eroded and mocked by developments with globalization, the rise of finance, the attention that is lavished by parties across the political spectrum on economic and financial elites, the technocratic emphasis of the established political parties.” After the market-venerating radicalism of Reagan and Thatcher, he said, “the center left” — Blair and Clinton and various European parties — “managed to regain political office but failed to reimagine the mission and purpose of social democracy, which ­became empty and obsolete.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/bre ... titutions/

[andrewjoy]

No greed is good rhetoric? Because then it's a good thing. Company sells assets in the UK, buys in the Netherlands, moves to Amsterdam No money burning, just winners and losers, as capitalism is supposed to work. More food on the table here. You didn't care about the losers at the east coast, so seems fair game. I'll call the losers racist idiots in case they complain.

Thats the society we all live in, a vote to leave the EU will not change that. All it will do is make things financially worse for EVERYONE! I am not saying capitalism is perfect , but it is what it is, you cannot change that

I an not even sure what alternative you are offering ?

[tentator]

I seem to be the only one here,
but in my opinion Merkel’s decision to open the German borders for refugees is one of the very,very few
(together with the German "Nuclexit" after Fukushima)
for which she deserves approval instead of critics.

And honestly,
when e.g. African fishers try to reach Europe after their fishing grounds have been ruined by the EU fishery industry,
and are rejected because they are "only" economic migrants and not political refugees,
I am not very proud of being a EU citizen.

But well, the Stock Exchange is of more concern, of course

can just quote you man!

[tentator]

and rest assured guys that what will happen next is exactly as mentioned: new elections asap, new winning party will be an anti brexit one and will just ignore the referendum. fullstop. of course it's a pity for the big economic loss of these days but once again it was basically just a big opportunity for speculators to take some further money to the "middle to low" class...

[seebart]

...new elections asap, new winning party will be an anti brexit one and will just ignore the referendum. fullstop.

Not sure that is legally possible, especially after (if) the Brits have officially exited via article 50.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-li ... le-50.html

[andrewjoy]

...new elections asap, new winning party will be an anti brexit one and will just ignore the referendum. fullstop.

Not sure that is legally possible, especially after (if) the Brits have officially exited via article 50.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-li ... le-50.html

If by that time then article 50 has been invoked then no there is no stopping it, if hey have not they can simple ignore the vote, its not legally binding. Don't think they will do it tho.

[tentator]

nono I'm saying new elections before article 50.. you can forget it this will happen by the parliament before new elections.. also actually nobody is bound to call article 50 because of the referendum!