Alps Appreciation

[robotsokk]

The other day I got an Orange Alps keyboard like this one but yours is in far better condition, the plate from mine is so rusty and all the sliders have pretty severe wear marks on them. So indeed, congrats on your happy finding! Overall, mine is/was pretty disappointing, haha. I was really hoping they'd be smoother than salmon/pink Alps but they're in such poor condition that the salmon/pink alps are actually smoother I am going to have to do a lot of work if I want to make them viable for a project.

Ah, bummer about your board with orange switches, especially regarding the sliders being so worn. Best of luck on the refurbishing of the switches, though. I'm curious to hear how it all turns out.

[Tuntematon]

Orange Alps are common enough that I probably wouldn't even bother restoring them if they are really that bad.

[alh84001]

I disagree somewhat. They are not rarest of them, but orange alps keyboards can be found mostly in the US, as they are mostly early Apple boards. It's even harder to find just the switches. I've been looking for around 15 for a month or so, no offers. Maybe it's easier if you look for full sets.

As if it's worth to bother with restoring them, depends on the person. I would certainly take a swing at it

[scottc]

Yeah, I really can't agree with Tuntematon either. They're not as easy to come by in Europe. I would assume that it's because Apple computers have always been more common in the USA.

[seebart]

Agreed, and the more common (in Europe) AEK2 was never shipped with orange Alps. I'm still not sure if I prefer SKCM salmon to orange, the difference is not huge IMO.

[Tuntematon]

I sympathize with you Europeans but the fellow with the worn orange Alps is in the U.S., where you can find affordable orange Alps Apple boards on a regular basis. Might be worth trying as an experiment, but if I were planning to use them for a project I'd want to find a nicer set.

[Chyros]

It's far from impossible, I found an orange Alps M0116 at a recycling centre here, and I got an AEK from the US in a trade, if you put your mind to it they're not hard to find Oo .

[fohat]

I am getting close to embarking on a new Dell AT101W-based project.

I already have my 4 "primo" Alps keyboards, full-sized and TKL, 2 of each (Northgate 101, Dell AT101W, Filco Zero, and Ducky 1087XM) with my 2 fave switches, blue and orange (stock switches but all decked out and whatnot), and now I want to look for the "ultimate family-friendly" full-size keyboard that is at least minimally tactile but quiet - including, if necessary, modding switches, which I have never really done with Alps.

The chassis will be a Dell AT101W again (in a black case with a weight bar and padding modded in) and I have a set of Dolch-repro doubleshots for caps (and plenty of beige and black spares to fill in gaps if need be, including Apple PBT that is dyeable for WASD, arrows, etc).

So, I have hundreds of black Alps, at least a hundred orange, at most 100 white (1st gen SKCM), ~100 old creams from a Wang 725, a small handful of blue, around 60 Matias Quiet clicks, and a couple each of odd things like locking switches from CapsLock. I also have a least 1 AEK2 that I could cannibalize but I would just as soon keep it intact. I don't mind mixing switches if they are close and there are a couple of dozen around the perimeter that I use a lot less than the others. Certain ones, such as CapsLock and Numlock, can be full clicky if need be.

What I am seeking are distinctly tactile switches but as light and quiet as possible. Sound means nothing to me but feel means everything.
This is a conundrum and a frustration because the best-feeling switches are so often the loudest.
In this instance, I am willing to sacrifice as much sound as necessary but would prefer to keep as much tactility as possible.

For the first time, I plan to disassemble the switches, clean them thoroughly, lube (and mod?) them, and re-assemble them to get the optimum fresh start.

Since no one has seemed willing to belly up and recommend a lubricant, I am probably going to go with the DuPont pictured here. I also have Krytox 103 but I am reluctant to use a wet lubricant for fear that it will attract dust, except in the wire stabilizer tabs, of course.

I am down to semi-click-modded (2 tabs bent or removed from the leaves but not all 4) orange or creams for the main body of switches with clicky blue or white when I want to be notified of something (such as CapsLock) and orange, black, or Quiet Clicks for those odd ones that I rarely if ever use.

My primary questions at this point are whether I should use the oranges or the creams (these are the old Wang ones, not the dampened Apple ones) and whether the 2-tab mods will give me adequate tactility without unnecessary noise.

TL;DR I understand, but don't answer unless you have something constructive.

Thank you very much! Harry

[jacobolus]

Fohat: I say you take the housing and sliders (with bumpers) from cream Alps, with the springs and tactile leaves from orange Alps.

If you want quiet, thick PBT is better than thin ABS.

And then you can stuff the case with padding to further cut sound.

[emdude]

Fohat, if I recall correctly, performing the click mod on tactile Alps will reduce the actuation force of the switches, I am not sure if this is what you want as far as tactility goes. I guess they would be lighter though. I believe Creams are somewhat heavier than Oranges, as well.

Have you considered using the damped sliders from your AEKII? Those would help dampen sound from bottoming-out.

Also, you may have already seen this, but here's a force graph of various Alps switches; maybe it will help:



EDIT: Whoops, ninja'd on using the damped sliders.

[fohat]

Jacobolus/Emdude -

The cream Alps are from an ancient Wang and I am pretty sure that they are not dampened, nor do I want them to be.

Second, the lighter the better as far as actuation force. I use heavy switches like buckling springs, but I really like light.

If the orange is lighter than the old creams, then I will use my oranges.

If O-rings worked on Alps, I would do that, too.

[XMIT]

I just popped some blue Alps into a KBparadise V80 board this weekend.

I find that the actuation point is *just before* the tactile point. Aargh! I like to rest my fingers on the keys sometimes and I'm able to consistently make the switch this way. It's extremely subtle but now that I notice it I can't not notice it.

If anyone else wants to repurpose a V80: this, like the V60, was a really annoying board to work. There isn't quite enough solder for my desoldering station to work well and the ground plane is huge and sucks heat away. The best approach I found was to apply *more* solder to every switch first, then run the desoldering station at 680 F, waiting for all the solder to melt and fizzle before sucking it all out.

[ohaimark]

Well, if you can't stand it... Selling it wouldn't be a problem. People line up for stuff like that.

[Blaise170]

My V60 with Blues actually didn't sell for all that much. Only got $150 for it which is kinda low when you consider that Leading Edges go for that much.

[jacobolus]

Fohat: I meant the cream switches from the AEK II. (Or maybe obtain another AEK II to harvest switches, if you don’t want to change the one you have?)

The non-damped ivory/cream switches should be roughly comparable in stiffness to salmon Alps; both are stiffer than orange. Other than the stiffness of the springs (and tactile leaves?), the housings and sliders of non-damped ivory/cream switches and orange switches should be approximately identical.

[Wingpad]

Orange Alps are common enough that I probably wouldn't even bother restoring them if they are really that bad.

As if it's worth to bother with restoring them, depends on the person. I would certainly take a swing at it

I am probably never going to do anything with them besides stick them in a prototype board which wouldn't be for a full-blown project. I am more curious to take a stab at restoring them just to see how it works out. I can say with some confidence that the only tactile switches I would ever actually build a board for myself with are Matias Quiets and SKCM Browns (I'd list Lime Greens just for the uniqueness but I will probably never get my hands on them).

@fohat, I'm interested to hear which switches you end up choosing; you're looking for quite an interesting balance of qualities. Good luck!

[alh84001]

Does anyone have any experience with KPT switches? Not much info on them around. How do they compare to original Alps?

[Blaise170]

I've never had a full board but they are VERY clicky. General consensus is that if you like clicky they are pretty nice but somewhat less reliable as far as build quality goes.

[seebart]

In terms of feel I thought KPT were like a cheaper version of SMK Alps mount Monterey's. Not too bad actually.

[Tuntematon]

They might be worth trying to satisfy your curiosity, but blue and white Alps are better. I don't consider KPT to be a must-try switch.

[Blaise170]

In terms of feel I thought KPT were like a cheaper version of SMK Alps mount Monterey's. Not too bad actually.

From the few that I had on my Bondwell I quite liked them, they complemented the MX Blues they were with pretty well. But, usually they are too expensive on eBay so I've never bought a full board.

[alh84001]

So, nothing to get excited about, but if there is a good deal, get it. Got it, thanks!

[Blaise170]

Should we start inflating KPT boards like people did with Alps? Maybe we should tell people that KPT is even nicer than SKCM Blues! Oh what fun that would be to see eBay.

Oh, and I also posted this at GH but not here. Two of my favorite boards!

[hasu]

Really nice linear boards.
Did you try easter egg of the keyboard yet?

[dokyun]

That cover for the expert is sick nasty.

[Tuntematon]

I love the Sharp. It's a feast for the eyes, so much going on! One of these days I need to bite the bullet and get set up for buying on Yahoo auctions. So many neat Japanese boards.

[jacobolus]

KPT switches aren’t anything too amazing. There are two types, an Alps SKCM-like switch and an Omron B3G-S-like switch, which feel substantially different form each-other; often both types are inexplicably used on the same keyboard. Both types are relatively inconsistent from switch to switch, and feel very cheap. Neither is very good with off-axis presses, or feels especially smooth. I wouldn’t expect them to be very mechanically/electrically reliable. The spring weight is reasonable and they’re fairly clicky though.

They’re a kind of interesting curiosity for a dedicated collector of Alps-style switches. I wouldn’t go out of your way to put them in a keyboard you want to use day to day.

Aruz switches are a much better choice if you want a nice-typing but rare Alps-inspired switch.

[Morituri]

If someone wants an alps-compatible plate + case and PCB for $7, they should look here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAC-APPLE-IIgs- ... Sw1h5XQb7H

I am not affiliated with this auction in any way, I just noticed it and thought people here might like to know.

[Blaise170]

If someone wants an alps-compatible plate + case and PCB for $7, they should look here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAC-APPLE-IIgs- ... Sw1h5XQb7H

I am not affiliated with this auction in any way, I just noticed it and thought people here might like to know.

PCB is damaged so I'd avoid it.

[emdude]

More of a general soldering question, but if a solder pad is partially damaged like on the PCB from the above listing, is it still usable?