Alps Appreciation

[scottc]

Wow, looks fantastic fohat.

[fohat]

I'm not normally too much into the whole keycap thing, but that's one of the most elegant keyboards I've ever seen.

After I took the photo I put on the red Escape.

[drevyek]

except for pine whites for a few keys where I wanted to be notified with a click (Escape, Num Lock, Caps Lock, etc).

Great idea- purpose-driven clicks!

[emdude]

Well, after months of having the parts lying around in jars and boxes, I finally put together my Alps64 with SKCM Blues. It might have been more trouble than it was worth to be honest; I feel kinda gross thinking about it, haha.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Anyhow, my initial impression is that SKCM Blues are just OK in a smaller layout like this. As I suspected, the sound of the switches are highly dependent on the chassis they are mounted in, so they don't sound as rich in tone as they did when they were in my DC-2014. Now, I just need to take care of my SKCM Brown build and then I should be pretty happy for a while.

Special thanks to Redmaus, who helped me get the SGI Granite key caps quite a while ago.

[Chyros]

Yes, the difference is very pronounced with white Alps as well, I showed this off in some of my videos. Of course, many blue Alps boards have outstanding build quality, which helps a lot ^^ .

I'd fucking LOVE to get a blue Alps OmniKey, I've wanted one for ages. Compare them to the white Alps in my other OmniKey.

[Crossfire]

While I've found my AEK II nice to type on, I actually miss something. They seem smooth enough of a switch but my question is did anyone already use krytox for lubing the cream alps?
Do you lube just the creamy stem or inside of the black housing?

EDIT: Nevermind. Lubed cream alps are completely different switch! I'm amazed at the potential. Will lube the whole board step by step. Krytox basically improved every board I've had my hands on...daaaaamn!

[Hypersphere]

@fohat: Your silent AT101W looks great!

Thanks also for exhorting someone in the community to buy the inexpensive Omnikey 101 that was up for sale recently on eBay. The board is sitting on my desk now, and I am pleased to say that it is in excellent condition and quite clean for an eBay item.

The SKCM white Alps are very smooth -- they feel about as good (to me) as the SKCM blue Alps in my DC-2014. I agree with what others have said about the quality of the SKCM white Alps experience -- the sound and feel of these switches can be all over the map depending on manufacturing parameters and how clean the switches are.

In any event, I am looking forward to cleaning up the already fairly clean Omni 101 and actually using it. Although I mostly use 60% and TKL form factors, the Omni 101 is compelling enough to entice me back to using a full-size board, at least part of the time.

[Chyros]

The SKCM white Alps are very smooth -- they feel about as good (to me) as the SKCM blue Alps in my DC-2014. I agree what others have said about the quality of the SKCM white Alps experience -- the sound and feel of these switches can be all over the map depending on manufacturing parameters and how clean the switches are.

Oh man, wait till you try them brand-new!

I sooooo want to have a brand-new SKCM factory to show the world how amazing these are when fresh .

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Perhaps you could start an Alps resurrection project akin to Ellipse's brand new F62 and F77 enterprise. Of course, Matias did something like this, but his switches are a redesign rather than an attempt to replicate.

The more I type on my Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps, the more I like it. My only comparison with SKCM blue Alps is the Leading Edge DC-2014, which is not as nice to type on as the Omni, but it is not the same caliber of construction as that in the Northgate.

Currently, I am doing some minor refurbishing on a Zenith Z-150 black label with linear green Alps. Among other things, I am installing an internal Orihalcon/Soarer converter along with a flush-mount micro-USB connector on the rear of the case.

[Chyros]

@Chyros: Perhaps you could start an Alps resurrection project akin to Ellipse's brand new F62 and F77 enterprise. Of course, Matias did something like this, but his switches are a redesign rather than an attempt to replicate.

The more I type on my Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps, the more I like it. My only comparison with SKCM blue Alps is the Leading Edge DC-2014, which is not as nice to type on as the Omni, but it is not the same caliber of construction as that in the Northgate.

Currently, I am doing some minor refurbishing on a Zenith Z-150 black label with linear green Alps. Among other things, I am installing an internal Orihalcon/Soarer converter along with a flush-mount micro-USB connector on the rear of the case.

I'd love to, if I didn't run a significant risk of financial ruin :p .

Blue Alps will feel better than white Alps when in comparable condition. Everything is just a little better. As always with Alps though, condition is everything.

[fohat]

but it is not the same caliber of construction as that in the Northgate.

Perhaps a thick sturdy metal bottom pan that wraps up and has a sizable lip is somehow incidental to the amazing feeling of keyboards like Model F and Northgate, but I as someone in the building industry can't help but believe that solid foundations are essential to any structure.

[seebart]

I sooooo want to have a brand-new SKCM factory to show the world how amazing these are when fresh .

No need, the small part of the "world" that cares enough either already knows or they can find out at DT anyway. Aside from that neither you or me or anyone will never get brand-new factory SKCM's, dead stock would be the next best option.

[Hypersphere]

but it is not the same caliber of construction as that in the Northgate.

Perhaps a thick sturdy metal bottom pan that wraps up and has a sizable lip is somehow incidental to the amazing feeling of keyboards like Model F and Northgate, but I as someone in the building industry can't help but believe that solid foundations are essential to any structure.

Yep, a solid foundation is a good thing. In addition, in the IBM XT keyboard, the barrel assembly itself is under tension, and then there is another layer of tension between the barrel assembly and the steel backplate of the case. The XT would be my favorite board if it had a standard ANSI layout (or even better, a HHKB layout!).

[alh84001]

Going off-topic now, but I know ohaimark was interested in the XTant PCB+plate. I have a spare plate as well, so I'd definitely be interested in another PCB. Who knows, maybe soon there might be critical mass for a second round.

[ohaimark]

Now that the "remodeling the M" project has taken off I think that will be the route I take.

[Hypersphere]

This morning, I tested my Zenith Z-150 with linear green Alps. I thought that the steel back on the Zenith case would make it feel more solid than the Leading Edge DC-2014, but this was not my impression. Although the green Alps are very smooth, I prefer some tactility. Plus, a major disappointment -- The Zenith has a dead key (the C key); I do not yet know the reason for this. Thus far, my favorite Alps board is the Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps; I just wish it were a 60% or TKL.

The layouts of the Z-150 and DC-2014 are almost identical, so I swapped keycaps in order to have the dye-sub PBT on the DC-2014. The LE does not have LEDs under the CapsLock and NumLock, so I left the windowed keys on the Zenith. I also kept the NumPad + key on the LE, because the Zenith has a + key and an Enter key in this space.

The DC-2014 seems significantly smaller than the Omnikey 101, even though it is only about 5/8" (15.9 mm) narrower in length and 3/8" (9.5 mm) shorter from front to back.

When I want compactness in an Alps-type, I revert to my KBP V60 with Matias Clicks or Quiets, but now that I have genuine Alps-switch boards, I wish the Matias switches were white or blue Alps. Even so, the Matias-switches are much better than any Cherry mx or clone, AFAIAK. I also have a 60% board with brown Alps -- it is quite fun, with very pronounced tactility, but a bit heavy for long typing sessions.

[ohaimark]

The DC is better designed, frankly. The Zenith has next to no support in the center of its plate. That's likely the root of the difference.

[Hypersphere]

Found the problem with the dead C switch. Apparently it was just dirt in the switch. It is now working after I removed the top with the handy Alps tool I bought from "mrbishop", cleaned the switch with 70% (v/v) isopropanol, dried it, and blew it out with canned air.

This is the first time I have opened an Alps switch, and I had some trouble getting it back together because of the spring falling out. I finally tipped the keyboard 90 degrees and gingerly eased the top of the switch back into place. Any tips on putting Alps switches back together would be appreciated! (I am referring to situations when the switch bottoms are still soldered to the keyboard and the tops have been removed).

As most of you know, the Zenith Z-150 has a built-in speaker that emits a chirp with every keystroke. You can toggle this on and off using Esc+Alt, but for the moment, I am enjoying the auditory feedback that is lacking from the linear green Alps. It reminds me of the touch panels on the Enterprise in STNG.

I've fitted the Zenith with an internal Orihalcon/Soarer converter programmed to an HHKB-like layout. I've also installed a flush-mount mico-USB connector on the back of the case.

[alh84001]

The DC is better designed, frankly. The Zenith has next to no support in the center of its plate. That's likely the root of the difference.

That's what I wanted to suggest as well, but it's missing that bottom metal plate. However, looking at what lot_lizard is doing, I wouldn't be surprised if that is offered as an option as well

[E3E]

The DC-2014 is almost more sturdy than its younger brother, the DC-3014, if not more sturdy.

It has six small rubber pads molded into the plastic of the bottom shell that prop up the PCB. The DC-3014 has one medium-sized pad in the middle that's propping it up.

I had a Z-150 myself. A lot of metal bottom Alps keyboards, which all seem to mount their plates to the top bezel (makes sense), either have no support, or more typically have little square rubber bumpers/feet that act as a standoff between the bottom of the case and the PCB. I took these off on my FAME since I had no idea what they were for and didn't put it past the assemblers to leaves junk in the keyboard, lol.

I did put it back together with memory foam dampening that was enough to prop the plate up, so I accidentally replaced the element I took away.

Still, the lack of support isn't all that bad. It gives the plates more flex, but sometimes that's a good thing with particularly tactile switches.

[Hypersphere]

There's something attractive about the aspect ratio of keyboards in the XT style, including of course the IBM XT itself, the LE DC-2014, and Zenith Z-150.

[Chyros]

The old XT boards are deceptively big, by the way. They may be navless, but generally they're almost the same size as a Model M Oo .

I can work with the XT layout, I like it a lot more than the HHKB layout for example, but little beats a 102-key for me.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Yes, for example, the DC-2014 is only about 5/8" narrower in width than the Northgate Omnikey 101 and around 3/8" less deep from front to back, yet I find these small differences to be significant savings on my desktop. In particular, that extra 5/8" width of the Omni 101 noticeably crowds my mouse space. But I would agree that there is an optical illusion operating here, probably deriving in part from the absence of the top function key row that makes these XT-styled boards look smaller than they actually are.

[E3E]

The Xerox 6085/DocuTech's XT form factor is one of my favorites, and I love the 10 function keys on top that effectively make it a 93-94 key. It'd be fantastic if a converter was made for them.

But yeah, I measured them up next to an Acer KB101A, and I they were only slightly less wide. By like half an inch. They are shorter than the KB101A, case, depth wise, but that isn't saying much as the KB101A has a massive case.

The XT boards do, in general seem a lot smaller, but because of the space needed above the keys for the PCB components and such, the size isn't really reduced by much. Well, that combined with a love for chunky bezels all around.

[Hypersphere]

Thanks to guidance on painting from XMIT and Fohat, here are my two Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboards with SKCM white Alps, one with the case painted burgundy red and the other painted flat black using Dupli-color vinyl/fabric coating:

Spoiler:

omni101burgundy_upleft.jpg (290.22 KiB) Viewed 4673 times

Spoiler:

omni101burgundy_lowrt.jpg (253.22 KiB) Viewed 4673 times

The burgundy keyboard has Alps-mount Tai-Hao doubleshot ABS Dolch caps except for the 1.5x blank black ABS mods and 7.0x black ABS spacebar from Matias. The switches in this one feel smoother and lighter than those in the black keyboard.

Spoiler:

omni101black_left2.jpg (939.44 KiB) Viewed 4673 times

Spoiler:

omni_black_right3b.jpg (264.47 KiB) Viewed 4673 times

The black keyboard has the stock doubleshot ABS keycaps.

The DIN6 connector on the rear of the Omnikey 101 case has exactly the same holes for the mounting screws and connector opening of the DataPro flush-mount micro-USB female connector and 1-ft cable to male micro-USB. I intend to install a Teensy/Soarer Converter and the flush-mount micro-USB connector in each of these keyboards. It is nice to know that this modification is completely and easily reversible. A Teensy is not required for this keyboard to work -- an active PS/2 to USB adapter will suffice. However, I would like to remap the boards to my HHKB-like layout.

Fohat has previously posted the pin assignments on the Omnikey 101 header for Clock Data, Ground, and +5V in post 157 of the following thread on GH:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49 ... msg1262678

However, there are 2 additional pins -- does anyone know the assignments for these pins? Which pin carries the LED information?

[lancre]

Ooooooooooohhhhhhnnnggg!!! That looks really nice!

(Sorry, I can't help with the question about the pins, I'm just here to laud your paint job).

I especially like how the finish gives a good texture to the plastic. Is that why you chose this specific paint?

Question: When sanding, what happened to the original mottled texture of the plastic? Did you sand down the texture or did you use a very fine paper? Did you use a primer? How thick did you go with the primer?

[Hypersphere]

@lancre: Wish I could take credit for how the paint job looks, but apparently the product is so good, it requires very little work or talent.

My first keyboard-related paint job was the steel barrel plate from an IBM XT keyboard. The plate was dotted with corrosion, which required sanding. I sanded the plate down to bare metal, applied a primer coat, sanded, and then applied several light coats of Rustoleum satin black with light sanding after each coat had dried overnight. This was fairly laborious and time-consuming, and now with the plate inside the keyboard and mostly covered by the keycaps, no one can see the nice paint job! But I know it is there! BTW, I used 400-grit wet/dry emery paper, and I employed wet sanding with intermittent rinsing, which keeps down the dust.

In contrast, painting the plastic tops of the Omnikey cases was a breeze. XMIT and Fohat helped greatly with painting tips and product recommendations. The Dupli-color vinyl/fabric coating requires only thorough cleaning of the plastic. I soaked the case tops in a solution of OxiClean detergent in hot tap water overnight, scrubbed lightly with a sponge, rinsed with hot tap water followed by a rinse and light scrub with 70% (v/v) isopropyl alcohol, and air-dried overnight.

Dupli-color does not require sanding, either of the starting surface or between coats. It also does not require primer or a prep coat. I applied several thin coats of Dupli-color, allowing several minutes between coats. I kept applying coats until the coverage looked complete and even. The case could be handled after about an hour, but to be on the safe side, you could let it dry overnight.

[lancre]

Nice, the mounting plate of my Omnikey is in fairly dire condition, so that's useful to know. In fact, the switches are worn out, the mounting plate is rusty, the case is yellowed and the caps have a lot of shine, so by the time I'm finished, it's going to have a nice original back plate.

By the way, that brand is quite sparse in the UK. I was looking at this one instead:

http://www.vinyldye.co.uk/All-Vinyl-Dye ... int-By-TRG

[Hypersphere]

@lancre: I am not familiar with that brand in the UK. Here, some of the main products are VHT, SEM, Duplicolor, and Rustoleum Vinyl and Fabric. There seems to be some debate about which of these, if any, are vinyl dyes rather than paints or coatings. I emailed the Duplicolor company with this question and they confirmed Fohat's assessment that their product is a coating or paint and not a dye.

[Chyros]

Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible!