Alps Appreciation

[emdude]

Ooh, nice, the plate looks to be in fantastic condition as well! What board did it come from?

[Wodan]

Oh wow and it looks precious. High five!!!

[Chyros]

Ooh, nice, the plate looks to be in fantastic condition as well! What board did it come from?

You'll see in a future review . It's a very obscure model and has some pretty weird things about it, so I won't spoil it for you .

The plate is completely rust-free, and the switches are in pretty good nick .

Oh wow and it looks precious. High five!!!

Thanks!

[emdude]

So I went ahead and swapped Cream Damped sliders from my SGI into my SKCM Brown board, I have an AEK II on the way but I got too impatient:



First off, the fit is ridiculously loose. The SGI key caps had fit in the Cream Damped sliders as tightly as one would expect for Alps, but not the 5140 key caps. The fit is so loose that the key caps are easily removable without the help of a key cap puller. The bottom row modifiers are especially bad; they would just slide off if the board was turned upside-down. I had to use that tape trick to fit them properly. If the Cream Damped sliders from the AEK II are a better fit, then I will swap these sliders out for those.

As for feel and sound: As much as I like SKCM Browns, typing on them made my fingers feel like they were ramming into brick walls. With damped sliders though, typing is much more comfortable. Interestingly enough, the board now sounds a lot like an HHKB Type-S (perhaps a bit quieter, and this is based on demonstration videos of the Type-S as well).

Following the discussion on the space bar plungers yesterday, I also decided to tack on a plunger from a 5140 space bar (hope no one needs a 5u space bar!) with some epoxy:



The space bar is stabilized much more nicely now and isn't as loud. I still need to get foam or something to dampen the impact of the wire stabilizer inserts though.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Blue Alps from the recycling center! How do you have such luck in finding all these obscure treasures? I suspect it isn't luck, but some sort of keyboard superpower.

[fohat]

the mounting plate is rusty,

so by the time I'm finished, it's going to have a nice original back plate.

Northgate made it ridiculously difficult to separate the front plate from the PCB, but you can do what you need to do from the top, clean it by wiping and blowing rather than immersing and scrubbing, then slide strips of paper between the parts to mask the PCB from the spray paint. (you can see overspray from my imperfect job around the center LED)

I strongly prefer Rustoleum for iron and steel, it is made to inhibit future rust.

[Hypersphere]

@fohat: How did you protect the PCB from the dust that was generated when you sanded the plate?

[XMIT]

I was intrigued by Hypersphere's work and found a nice deal on an Omnikey 101 on eBay just now. Sorry if I was bidding against anyone here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391543765678

It will be fun to see what I can do with this one. It's the perfect layout to receive a set of SGI dye subs as a recipient.

To Hypersphere's question of protecting the PCB: I don't know how fohat did it, but if it were me, I would desolder all the switches first.

[Hypersphere]

@XMIT: I noticed the Omnikey 101 that sold on eBay this morning, but I passed, thinking that if the feet were in such bad shape, the switches might not have fared very well, either. However, you never can tell. Let us know your impression of the switches when you received the board.

Regarding broken or missing feet, what I do with some keyboards is install conical self-adhesive bumpers. I found some on eBay that are 0.75 inches tall. I went with cone-shaped rather than hemispherical so that I could get the height without the corresponding width. These work quite well. The only disadvantage is that they do not retract, but I always keep my keyboards elevated anyway.

[fohat]

@fohat: How did you protect the PCB from the dust that was generated when you sanded the plate?

Well, of course you will need to remove the switches and the stabilizer hold-down tabs.

I did it outside on the rail of the deck, with the plate held upright so that the dust fell downwards. I only sanded the actual rust, using a fine sandpaper and my index finger. Afterwards, I vacuumed and then blew out as best I could, wiped the plate with alcohol, and painted.

[Hypersphere]

@fohat: Thanks for the details about prepping your Omnikey 101 plate for painting. Is the plate in this keyboard especially prone to corrosion, or is this about what you should expect after many years of use? It's unfortunate that a better corrosion-inhibiting coating was not used when these (and other) keyboards were manufactured. Alternatively, it would have been nice if they had made it easier to separate the plate from the PCB. On the other hand, the situation gives us the opportunity to exercise our ingenuity to solve these little problems.

[alh84001]

I wouldn't say the plate is especially prone to corrosion. The two of mine have not been in an ideal environment I would guess, but the plates have some minor corrosion. Nothing that would be a structural problem, but enough that it could cause your brain to eat itself because you can't unlearn the fact that it is down there

[fohat]

I have opened at least 2 dozen Alps boards and certainly 90% of them had some rust inside. That said, I don't think that more than a very few of them had so much that it would cause a problem that was more than cosmetic - unless it started corroding the stabilizer wires what difference would it make, really?

Considering how fanatically anal Apple was about manufacturing details, it is surprising that theirs were no better than anybody else's in that regard.

[Hypersphere]

For me, the problem with rust was well stated by alh84001:

" ...the plates have some minor corrosion. Nothing that would be a structural problem, but enough that it could cause your brain to eat itself because you can't unlearn the fact that it is down there."

The sight of rust is ugly, which is sufficient grounds for removing it. But it also erodes our trust -- as we cross a bridge with rusted girders, we imagine imminent collapse; as we drive our cars with rusted fenders, we wonder if the whole thing will give way, spilling us onto the pavement at 100 kph. This is why they are continually repainting the so-called Golden Gate bridge, which is actually rust-colored -- so that it will look respectable and engender our faith in its structural integrity. The same goes for used-car salesmen patching over corroded fenders with epoxy, pigment, and a high-gloss sales pitch.

[Chyros]

I have opened at least 2 dozen Alps boards and certainly 90% of them had some rust inside. That said, I don't think that more than a very few of them had so much that it would cause a problem that was more than cosmetic - unless it started corroding the stabilizer wires what difference would it make, really?

Considering how fanatically anal Apple was about manufacturing details, it is surprising that theirs were no better than anybody else's in that regard.

Probably because they didn't make them themselves xD . Alps took over Apple's keyboard manufacturing plant in Ireland over here and made them in-house in their US plant afaik .

Tbh I didn't even know Apple was anal about manufacturing details. None of their products that I've seen ever struck me as being particularly well-made Oo . edit: apart from the Alps Apple keyboards of course.

[Hypersphere]

Not to incite a fan-boy flame war over Apple vs everything else, but I have some Apple products that are exceptionally well made. These include my Macbook Air laptop, two 2012 "cheese grater" Mac Pros, and a 2013 "trash can" Mac Pro. In particular, I look for good excuses to open up the 2012 Mac Pro machines e.g., to hot-swap hard drives. The case is made of heavy-gauge aluminum throughout and everything is beautifully designed for easy access and replacement of components.

However, it's ironic that all my Macs are now running Windows 10 and connected to non-Mac peripherals. I enjoyed using OS X and its unix foundation, but the lack of applications software development for the Mac prompted me to switch to Windows (and to continue using Linux). Although I like the build quality and design of the Mac Pro computers, I do not like Apple keyboards or mice. My 2012 Mac Pros are connected to HHKBs, and my 2013 Mac Pro is currently connected to my Northgate Omnikey 101 and a SS Rival 200 mouse.

I also concede that these Mac Pros, for all their beautiful design and excellent workmanship, are underpowered compared to currently available PC workstations. For my serious computing, I am using custom-built PC workstations running Linux.

[chiptea]

Funny this apple thing come up right now. Being out of the country I've been using my late 09 macbook pro 13" a while. I had gotten it for free from someone who had some issues with the software. After a clean reinstall it worked perfectly fine for a while. Started giving me problems starting up a few months after the fix, and has finally given up and died after 10 months in my possession. Funnily enough, I'm typing this on a 2005-6 Toshiba satellite with 1gb ram and who know' what kind of processor. Terribly slow, but has never once caused any problems in it's decade of use. Apple products are well designed and incredibly refined, but in the long run it still seems like Windows and the multitude of different products it's available wins in the end for me. Still, windows vista is killing me right now, not to mention that Chrome is going to become unsupported pretty soon on anything under XP. After I get back home I'm buying a Surface pro 2 for cheap to replace the mac for school.

[E3E]

I have opened at least 2 dozen Alps boards and certainly 90% of them had some rust inside. That said, I don't think that more than a very few of them had so much that it would cause a problem that was more than cosmetic - unless it started corroding the stabilizer wires what difference would it make, really?

Considering how fanatically anal Apple was about manufacturing details, it is surprising that theirs were no better than anybody else's in that regard.

Probably because they didn't make them themselves xD . Alps took over Apple's keyboard manufacturing plant in Ireland over here and made them in-house in their US plant afaik .

Tbh I didn't even know Apple was anal about manufacturing details. None of their products that I've seen ever struck me as being particularly well-made Oo . edit: apart from the Alps Apple keyboards of course.

I did have an AEK that said "made in Japan" though. The PCB at least.

[Chyros]

I have opened at least 2 dozen Alps boards and certainly 90% of them had some rust inside. That said, I don't think that more than a very few of them had so much that it would cause a problem that was more than cosmetic - unless it started corroding the stabilizer wires what difference would it make, really?

Considering how fanatically anal Apple was about manufacturing details, it is surprising that theirs were no better than anybody else's in that regard.

Probably because they didn't make them themselves xD . Alps took over Apple's keyboard manufacturing plant in Ireland over here and made them in-house in their US plant afaik .

Tbh I didn't even know Apple was anal about manufacturing details. None of their products that I've seen ever struck me as being particularly well-made Oo . edit: apart from the Alps Apple keyboards of course.

I did have an AEK that said "made in Japan" though. The PCB at least.

Oh yeah they had plants in Asia as well. Regardless, Apple never made the AEK themselves, it was all third-partied.

[lancre]

the lack of applications software development for the Mac prompted me to switch to Windows (and to continue using Linux).

What specifically did you have in mind? Just interested - I've not found Mac slowing me down from a software point of view, mind you I do Ruby on Rails / R / MEAN Stack, so it's not very Windowsy.

[Hypersphere]

@lancre: Yes, if you are already using such things as Ruby on Rails and R, you shouldn't be hampered by any particular OS. Although I have a number of items on my "to learn" list, such as Python and R, for the most part I currently rely on ready-made software for relatively specific tasks. For example, I use Chem3D, Origin Pro, Statistica, and Systat, which are all Windows-only. I also use Microsoft Office, and although there is a Mac version, it lacks certain features, such as OLE.

[keycap]

My M0116 is cleaning up very well. It turns out that, internally, the Orange Alps are much cleaner than I had expected. But I definitely need to order another M0116 to harvest some replacement keycaps from, since a few of the keycaps on my M0116 (as well as the spacebar) are damaged.

Nothing's wrong with a spare keyboard anyways, especially when it comes to mechanical keyboards

[fohat]

since a few of the keycaps on my M0116 (as well as the spacebar) are damaged.

I can't remember the details, but there is one model Apple where early serial numbers had spacebars incompatible with later ones.

[XMIT]

AEK II keyboards with Mitsumi switches have space bars that are not compatible with Alps based AEK II boards. I found this out the hard way. I think the stabilizer is wrong or something like this. I managed to work around it but can't remember what I did.

[keycap]

I might have to narrow down the results to the keyboard with the closest serial number, then, just to be safe. I'm not sure if my Apple M0116 is a very early model or not, as the serial number is in the mid-200,000 range. This is what the spacebar looks like:

Spoiler:

I am noticing that the later SKCM Salmon models use a stabilizer below the switch rather than on top. Is this the difference between the two versions?

[Blaise170]

I learned the hard way that not all M0116 are the same. I did a full switch swap with Matias and picked out the nicest keys, selling the rest. Turns out the other M0116 spacebar I had wasn't compatible with it.

[fohat]

I am noticing that the later SKCM Salmon models use a stabilizer below the switch rather than on top. Is this the difference between the two versions?

I think that is right.

In my experience, the breakover point in serial numbers from orange to salmon is about 500K.

[keycap]

Thanks for noting that. I was about to get the Salmon Alps version, just because I wanted to try them out. I'll be looking for the Orange Alps version specifically for a replacement.

[fohat]

we find a thing to loose and tighten the keycap. and it is also a keycap puller.

Apparently you posted a Cherry tool by mistake.

[kbdfr]

we find a thing to loose and tighten the keycap. and it is also a keycap puller.

Apparently you posted a Cherry tool by mistake.

No, it was just plain spam posted in several threads.