Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions

[zslane]

Is there a post up-thread that describes the layout of the 60% version and what the FN+key combinations are? For instance, arrow-key navigation, volume control, etc.?

[XMIT]

No, not yet, for a few reasons:

1. This was *just added* with a major hardware and firmware change;
2. I haven't had a chance to test it yet;
3. I was going to re-draw this diagram for my documentation.

The photo shows the current state of things. I'll leave this here as is for now until I test some more.

61-key Hall Effect keyboard layout, as proposed by XMIT Keyboards

image001.png (42.72 KiB) Viewed 12200 times

(And, yes, I know everyone wants programmable firmware, but there is an awkward relationship between the manufacturer and their firmware partner, with the latter being against open software. Argh! We'll either get a layout edit from the firmware partner, or, we can work on our own firmware with the data sheets and schematics that I have. I'm not sharing those yet since quite a lot can change before production.)

[Phenix]

so no ISO boards in the first GB?
Too bad

[zslane]

That layout looks pretty reasonable right out of the box to me.

Any chance of DIP switches for moving the FN key around? I like to configure the Caps Lock key to be FN. I've done this on my Pok3rs and my KBP V60 mini, and CapsLock+IJKL (or CapsLock+PL;') is now embedded in muscle memory for arrow key navigation.

[XMIT]

so no ISO boards in the first GB?
Too bad

No, sorry. ISO is an option for later purchases. Let's see if there is enough interest.

[XMIT]

Any chance of DIP switches for moving the FN key around? I like to configure the Caps Lock key to be FN. I've done this on my Pok3rs and my KBP V60 mini, and CapsLock+IJKL (or CapsLock+PL;') is now embedded in muscle memory for arrow key navigation.

I don't ever foresee hardware DIP switches for waterproofing reasons.

As for other remaps: it's possible that the supposed, promised, remapping software will let you remap Fn to whatever you want using a static program. My preference is for a fully open board firmware with full customization of course. As a vi/vim user myself I wish hjkl were mapped to arrows on more boards. I've learned to live with wasd since that's pretty common (but the HHKB doesn't have this). I /think/ we now have a wasd lock to keep those keys as arrows?

Maybe as a stop gap workaround you can use some software remapping in your OS of choice but I agree doing this in the board is ideal!

[andrewjoy]

Any chance of DIP switches for moving the FN key around? I like to configure the Caps Lock key to be FN. I've done this on my Pok3rs and my KBP V60 mini, and CapsLock+IJKL (or CapsLock+PL;') is now embedded in muscle memory for arrow key navigation.

I don't ever foresee hardware DIP switches for waterproofing reasons.

As for other remaps: it's possible that the supposed, promised, remapping software will let you remap Fn to whatever you want using a static program. My preference is for a fully open board firmware with full customization of course. As a vi/vim user myself I wish hjkl were mapped to arrows on more boards. I've learned to live with wasd since that's pretty common (but the HHKB doesn't have this). I /think/ we now have a wasd lock to keep those keys as arrows?

Maybe as a stop gap workaround you can use some software remapping in your OS of choice but I agree doing this in the board is ideal!

Could they not just use TMK firmware ?

[XMIT]

Any chance of DIP switches for moving the FN key around?[...]

[...]
As for other remaps: it's possible that the supposed, promised, remapping software will let you remap Fn to whatever you want using a static program. My preference is for a fully open board firmware with full customization of course.
[...]

Could they not just use TMK firmware ?

Maybe in the future, but, TMK support doesn't just come for free. Also its backlighting support is immature. I have enough information to port TMK to the board so this can be an option in the future.

[niomosy]

87-key with 50g springs? Looks like I need to keep an eye on this one.

[geostation]

@xmit,

I'm excited about hall effectkeyboard and really appreciate your persistence in bringing hall effect keyboard back to life. have you considered kickstarter, instead of a GB. IMHO kickstarter will expose the tech to a wider audience. I would also love an option for acrylic bottom for the abs case for rgb underglow and an bleutooth option so it can connect to other devices in the future.

with the current board you are building, how do you find the keyboard for typing compared to browns - current recommendation for office work.

[andrewjoy]

It is Linear so if you like the tactile feedback then its not for you, but i would still recommend giving it a go, hell there are RD boards i would recommend over MX browns.

[XMIT]

Hi geostation: I've consider a kickstarter. Those are better for completely new product development. What I'm offering is really an off-the-shelf Chinese design, albeit with quite a lot of tweaks and my own quality control. I don't need funding to bring this to market, I need funding to enable future product designs (like: tactile switches, CNC cases, etc.).

The full acrylic case will give you more "underglow" if that's what you're after. In this offering there will be a 60% acrylic case. I may offer a TKL acrylic case in the future.

Bluetooth is not something I'm considering at the moment.

andrewjoy already answered your question about a comparison to MX Brown. These switches are very similar to MX Red or MX Black, the weight being somewhere in between!

[zslane]

Will the 60% board be compatible with third party cases, like the Lambo case from MassDrop?

[XMIT]

Will the 60% board be compatible with third party cases, like the Lambo case from MassDrop?

Probably not. These third party cases assume that you have a keyboard module - PCB, plate, switches - to drop into a case. The design of these Hall switches sort of combines the top of the case and the plate together. The same is true of the TKL boards.

In theory, if you were to laser cut a plate that worked with these switch tops, it could work.

Down the road I can look into supplying cutout hole and other important dimensions if you want to build something else around the existing design.

[zslane]

Down the road I'd really like to see this switch (or rather, a properly silenced version) get integrated into more conventional products (full-size layouts, Filco-style ABS cases, easily replaced 60% cases, programmable controllers, etc.). Hall Effect switches that remain in the novelty ghetto are not much better than Hall Effect switches that remain an artifact of history. That's why I'm really hoping this first group buy goes well. Because if it doesn't, I fear these switches will just get forgotten again.

[niomosy]

A 75% and a split board would be nice options in the future as well.

Still, a TKL is a good start into these for now for me.

[Phenix]

A split atomic would be neat..

[Menuhin]

On a Hall Effect keyboard, is it possible to program the switch to sense how hard the key is pressed like that on a piano keyboard?

[ohaimark]

I think so. You could watch how fast the magnetic field strength increases and base strike force on that. Pianos use a hammer system, so acceleration and deceleration at various points in the stroke matter more than average press force.

It would take a lot of programming and physics knowledge, though.

[XMIT]

In general? Yes. On this board? No.

So, a plain Hall sensor will give you a voltage value that is proportional to magnetic field strength. That's a purely analog value just like a variable resistor (potentiometer).

However, a common arrangement is to run the output of the Hall sensor through a Schmitt trigger or similar to get a digital output - one or zero, high or low, on or off. It is economical to have this trigger right next to the sensor - meaning on the package, meaning impossible to remove - for signal quality. That's what these are: digital out. The trigger level is determined by comparing to a reference voltage (one resistor that you can change).

So, can some Hall boards detect key position and velocity precisely? Sure! Can these? Nope. Maybe in the future.

I've been conspiring with HaaTa some and he's aware of this project. The kiibohd language he wrote has some extensions for analog switches just like these.

[LePoulet]

XMIT,

Are you still doing a group-buy for this product? Or is it still in development? I'm really interested in purchasing one when the product is finished.

[XMIT]

The final prototypes are stuck in Cincinnati. Thanks, DHL. For a number of boring reasons this shipping delay - by one business day - delays the group buy by two weeks.

I'm expecting to work out the details of the group buy this week, receive the final prototypes this week, and kick off the group buy next week. Everything is taking much longer than I'd like. For starters, one of the improvements in this final round of prototypes (upstroke damping) required modifications to the mold.

Check here for updates. Sales should start soon.

[Thumper]

so no ISO boards in the first GB?
Too bad

No, sorry. ISO is an option for later purchases. Let's see if there is enough interest.

Totally interested. 88 Key version.
How about a detachable USB cable? I didn't read site 5-7, so i'm not sure if its planned, but i would really like it

[cookie]

How about an EU-Tour?
I'd love to try that one out but I am not totally convinced.
The case and unicorn puke turns me quite down to be honest.

[Chyros]

How about an EU-Tour?
I'd love to try that one out but I am not totally convinced.
The case and unicorn puke turns me quite down to be honest.

Gamers fall for the rainbow backlighting so much frankly they'd be a fool not to include it. I mean I don't really like it either, but you CAN turn it off, and other people are willing to shell out for it.

[cookie]

How about an EU-Tour?
I'd love to try that one out but I am not totally convinced.
The case and unicorn puke turns me quite down to be honest.

Gamers fall for the rainbow backlighting so much frankly they'd be a fool not to include it. I mean I don't really like it either, but you CAN turn it off, and other people are willing to shell out for it.

Well I'd like to have no LEDs but a nicer case instead.
Don't get the point of a Hall Effect keyboard which is aimed for the vintage loving keyboard snobs like us and then putting LEDs inside. I know I know, we are just a few and they need the "Gamer Moth" which will pay the bills.

I am still so curios how this switch feels.

[Chyros]

How about an EU-Tour?
I'd love to try that one out but I am not totally convinced.
The case and unicorn puke turns me quite down to be honest.

Gamers fall for the rainbow backlighting so much frankly they'd be a fool not to include it. I mean I don't really like it either, but you CAN turn it off, and other people are willing to shell out for it.

Well I'd like to have no LEDs but a nicer case instead.
Don't get the point of a Hall Effect keyboard which is aimed for the vintage loving keyboard snobs like us and then putting LEDs inside. I know I know, we are just a few and they need the "Gamer Moth" which will pay the bills.

I am still so curios how this switch feels.

It's not just for us vintage lovers though. We like it for one reason, but from a design and engineering perspective Hall effect switches have potential to be vastly superior to alternative options on the market. There's no reason why it wouldn't be a great product for contemporary markets.

I agree with you though. Of course, I'd prefer a more retro look as well.

[XMIT]

Let me stress again that the upcoming order, with fewer configurations, makes my life simpler and sets the stage for future development based on this design. I welcome all of your feedback but stand by all my design decisions so far.

The acrylic and bamboo case options are great because they are super simple to fabricate in different sizes and in low volumes. It means that design changes are very simple to make.

A more "retro" look would mean a different case design (and possibly tooling new molds for a different case), sourcing different key caps (and finding a key cap vendor), and perhaps making the board without backlights (which means more configurations and more MOQ requirements). By "retro" I assume you mean "Cherry G80-3000" or "IBM Model M 1391401" as examples.

If you are in the EU and dying to try this board, perhaps PM matt3o, he may loan you his sample. Note, though, that there will be some design changes after those samples, so they will not represent the latest improvements I've made with the manufacturer.

[Memoren]

is the bamboo treated or sealed in anyway or is it raw?

[zslane]

By "retro" I assume you mean "Cherry G80-3000" or "IBM Model M 1391401" as examples.

Given the hypercontemporary look of minimalist acrylic boards with LED backlighting, I'd say that "retro" has also come to mean "Filco Majestouch-2" or "RealForce 104U". I'm not looking for "retro", I'm just looking for "conventional". Who knew that would be so hard (and so expensive)?

BTW, there's a niche of the vintage-loving snob niche that I belong to: I'm not into vintage keyboards, I'm only into the vintage keyboard aesthetic. I like my boards to be completely modern under the hood. I'm not interested in harvesting switches or keycaps from 30 year-old keyboards, or trying to resurrect some old piece of hardware with an outdated serial interface. But I am in love with putting SA keycaps (in vintage terminal colors) on conventional, well-made, full-size boards conforming to today's ANSI standard layout.

Someday I hope to do that with a Hall Effect keyboard. But if future development hinges on heavy sales to the gamer market, my hopes are not high.