Top-Modding Alps, Matias, and other Alps-clone Switches

[Hypersphere]

Although there is already an Alps Appreciation thread, I thought it might be useful to have a new thread focused on "top-modding" of Alps, Matias, and other Alps-clone switches. This would deal with results of swapping all the switch parts that can be changed without desoldering the switches -- top housing, slider, return spring, and tactile/click leaf.

To start with an example, I have a KBP V60MTS-C, which is a 60% keyboard with Matias Click switches. I like it, but the switches are just a tad too noisy, due in part to the Matias-switch wobble, which imparts an overall rattle to the keyboard. Whereas people have successfully desoldered the Matias switches from their V60 boards and replaced them with Alps switches, the construction of the V60MTS keyboard makes this operation particularly difficult. Consequently, I wondered what might be accomplished by a relatively simple "top-modding" of the Matias switches.

Recently Wingpad kindly sent me some blue Alps switches, so I decided to try swapping out the slider, spring, and click leaf from a couple of the Matias Click switches in the KBP V60MTS-C with the corresponding parts from the blue Alps switches. The result was something that sounded and felt more like a blue Alps than a Matias Click switch. The transplantation also greatly attenuated the noise you get from lightly brushing the keycaps with your fingertips. Thus, the transplant reduces the rattle of a V60MTS-C board.

I am not sure if this mod would be worth sacrificing 61 genuine blue Alps switches to do, but for those who prefer not to desolder and resolder switches, this could be a relatively easy and potentially worthwhile mod for a V60.

Perhaps something almost as good could be achieved by using parts from a somewhat more common Alps switch. Orange Alps perhaps? With or without click-modding the tactile leaves?

I tried the transplant with orange Alps. I discovered that the orange slider and return spring work in a Matias Click housing, but the orange tactile leaf does not fit inside a Matias Click housing. I tried clipping the top tabs on the orange tactile leaf (click mod) -- this enabled the leaf to slide into the Matias Click housing almost all the way, but there was still some overhang, so I abandoned this attempt. There was some improvement in the Matias Click switch from transplanting only the slider and return spring from an orange switch, but not as much as from transplanting the slider, return spring, and click leaf from a blue switch.

After clipping all 4 tabs from the orange tactile leaf, I was able to slide the leaf all the way into the Matias housing. With the completely clipped orange tactile leaf, return spring, and slider, the modded Matias switch had an attenuated click and less tactility than it did with the orange slider, return spring, and Matias click leaf.

Next, I put the slider, return spring, and click leaf from a white Alps switch into a Matias Click switch on the V60. There was a slight difference in sound or feel between the Matias/white versus the Matias/blue. Either of these mods was better than straight Matias or Matias/orange.

My subjective ranking of hybrids in the V60MTS-C:

Matias/Blue ~> Matias/White > Matias/Orange > Matias/OrangeClip > Matias/Orange+Matias Spring ~> Matias

(Note that the Matias return spring is longer than the return spring in Blue, Orange, or White Alps switches).

Another discovery: Keycaps from an IBM 5140 have a somewhat loose fit on blue Alps sliders. However, these caps are fine on Matias Quiet, Matias Click, white Alps, orange Alps, and brown Alps.

[drevyek]

I've found that the Matias sliders are much tighter on the keycaps than are standard Alps. They grip SGI Granite like their lives depend on it!

I'm actually quite partial to the Quiet Matias sliders, which their elongated bumpers. I've swapped them into the housings for Cream, and they do famously. The damping works great, even outside of cream casings (which makes them great for someone doing a damped mod that targets long-switchplate base switches, like oranges), because they don't rely on the cream's extra-size bumper to make contact.

I've been wary in modding switches too drastically unless you're alright with not getting the original fit back. I have a feeling that the tactile leaf in Alps are fit to the specific case. When you try to swap leaves between switches, even from the same board, the leaves don't perfectly fit, due to some micro-bending of the leaf, or ???. I have used the paper-mod to good effect however (a slip of paper between the leaf and the housing). It mitigates the slight up-click from a slightly loose leaf by putting pressure on the retaining flaps. If the paper isn't exactly the size of the leaf, however, it can further bend and worsen the click, even killing the sound entirely.

I'd like to see what the paper mod sounds like with actually clicky switches though! Maybe having a buffer there between the metal and plastic would alter the sound.

[u-ra]

Nothing too fancy, but I "top-modded" one of my AT102Ws with SKCM whites (pine, gold colored springs) from a Monterey K104. Together with some Acer caps, it makes for a really great board now.

Pardon the potato cam.

[fohat]

I "top-modded" one of my AT102Ws with SKCM whites

Great idea! I didn't think of that. I have at least 1 set and probably enough to do 2 of these.

The Dell is a very well-built and under-appreciated keyboard.

[Hypersphere]

@u-ra: What was your motivation for top-modding your Dell AT102W rather than simply using the Monterey K104? In my case, if I had a Del AT101 or AT101W and a Monterey K104, I might do the mod just for the layout, as I prefer a standard US ANSI layout with a horizontal Return key and Backslash key directly above (which I would use as a Backspace). It might seem like a lot of effort for the sake of the placement of two keys, but I would consider top-modding easier than reconfiguring the physical layout of the board.

[u-ra]

@u-ra: What was your motivation for top-modding your Dell AT102W rather than simply using the Monterey K104? In my case, if I had a Del AT101 or AT101W and a Monterey K104, I might do the mod just for the layout, as I prefer a standard US ANSI layout with a horizontal Return key and Backslash key directly above (which I would use as a Backspace). It might seem like a lot of effort for the sake of the placement of two keys, but I would consider top-modding easier than reconfiguring the physical layout of the board.

You guessed it: the layout. I cannot stand BAE. ISO is now completely fried into my brain and the K104 is the only nonstandard board I have. To me, one of the best features of the AT102W is that it's a completely standard ISO 105-key keyboard, something (AFAIK) not a lot of boards with genuine Alps switches can say for themselves.

I was also rather disappointed the K104 came with SKCM whites instead of SMKs, so I made the best of the situation. (It was going for cheap and I couldn't get the seller to pull a cap.)

Indeed, the top-modding was less effort than (de)soldering, especially since I had to open the switches to clean them anyway. Also, I can't solder worth shit.

[Hypersphere]

@u-ra: Thanks for confirming that you were motivated to do the top-mod because of the layout. Like you, I find BAE boards virtually unusable. However, ISO would not work for me, either. However, I am able to make a slim backwards-L work for me. Right now, I am typing on a Leading Edge DC-2014, and its modified-XT layout works fairly well, as it lends itself to HHKB-style remapping.

LE_DC-2014.jpg (59.78 KiB) Viewed 4198 times

wiki/Leading_Edge_DC-2014

My remapping:

Backspace --> Backslash
Right Bracket --> Backspace
PrtSc --> Fn
Backslash --> Left Gui
CapsLock --> Right Gui
Fn+1 --> F1, etc.
Fn_Tab --> CapsLock

The slim vertical part of the Return plus the oversized Right Bracket makes this remapping possible. Also, Left Ctrl is already where I like it -- to the left of the "A" key.

Even so, the Return key is not as smooth as I would like. I tend to hit the Return on the left edge, and it wants to be struck farther to the right. If I were to use an ISO board, I would probably remap the key just to the left of Return as the Return key and remap Return as Backspace.