topre dilemma

bobafetish · 14 Nov 2016, 21:50

i almost bought the realforce rgb. My only qualms with it are the abs keycaps and the fact that it isn't tkl. I almost bought the RF 87u. Then I thought of pretty RGB lightning and cool cherry keycaps. I almost bought the RF87u. Then I saw a sound test for the Leopold FC660C and like that. I almost bought it. GET ME OUT OF THIS. I want to want to buy a realforce RGB but I also want to want to have famous topre keycaps, TKL, and a sexy layout. Also, if I do get the RGB what budget keycaps would look good? By budget I mean like $50.

Edit: before anyone says this, I WILL NOT BUY THEM ALL.

zslane · 14 Nov 2016, 22:14

If you want Topre keycaps, then go with the RF 87U. If you want MX keycaps, then go with a NovaTouch. They are your only Topre-based TKL options (and the NovaTouch is discontinued so you better get one now before they are all in the hands of collectors).

lancre · 15 Nov 2016, 00:05

Will you feel disappointed that you dropped X amount of $ on a keyboard that has Topre internals but just isn't a real Topre keyboard? And by real Topre keyboard, I mean the Realforce. Just get the Realforce.

Save the caps and the razzmatazz and the associated tat for another keyboard. In my opinion.

002 · 15 Nov 2016, 01:05

The problem with keycaps for RGB keyboards is that they pretty much all shit...stock *and* aftermarket.
I don't think I've seen a set of shine-through caps that I personally would go for, which means if I bought a Realforce RGB, I'd be putting a set of dye-subs on it anyway which kinda defeats the purpose of having a backlit keyboard.

I'd like to see something at Topre or GMK quality with a similar look and feel. Most shine-through caps are that horrible spray-on crap that wears away -- and nobody wants to do a sensible damn font on them either.

zslane · 15 Nov 2016, 01:39

Defeating the purpose of RGB backlighting is our foremost duty as an evolved species.

Durainello · 15 Nov 2016, 11:52

I would suggest to get the Realforce 87U 55g 10th anniversary. You get the real Topre internal with nice color scheme.

cookie · 15 Nov 2016, 15:26

Backlit is relative, you are sacrificing the best caps money can buy. I'd go for the Realforce 87U which is simply "The Real Deal" It is classy, it is beautiful, it is absolute understatement. This RGB X-Mas tree can't be on par with the "Real"force

citrojohn · 15 Nov 2016, 18:41

To my mind the RGB's almost a prototype, like XMIT's early boards or the Wooting optical-switch boards, because so much depends on development work that hasn't been done yet. By buying an RGB you're coming in at the start of something that could be the next big thing or could be just another dead end. If that's exciting, go for the RGB. If it's worrying, get a 10th-anniversary 87U or a FC660C, and keep an eye on the RGB's development. (In my opinion Topre have sunk too much into the RGB to let it wither, and if anyone can make a good-looking PBT doubleshot set it's Topre - so I predict that in a few years' time there'll be a RGB with PBT caps and developed analogue features, at a price that'll make the current RGB look cheap.)

zslane · 15 Nov 2016, 19:15

The only reason I care about the RGB is that it will allow me to put SA keycaps on a full-size board with Topre switches. I'm going to junk the stock keycaps immediately, and if I could I would junk the backlighting too, but since I can't I'll just be turning it off instead. Given my needs, I don't think there's much that Topre has to do to develop the product any further, apart from silencing the sliders (for the upstroke) maybe.

Scottex · 15 Nov 2016, 20:19

cookie wrote: ↑Backlit is relative, you are sacrificing the best caps money can buy. I'd go for the Realforce 87U which is simply "The Real Deal" It is classy, it is beautiful, it is absolute understatement. This RGB X-Mas tree can't be on par with the "Real"force

I'm with cookie, pick something classy, with great keycaps and with a not-too-compact layout.
RBG just looks childish and you'll get tired of it real quick.

002 · 15 Nov 2016, 22:39

People are definitely buying the Realforce RGB, I can tell you that much. One of Topre's distributors in Australia started selling it earlier than they should have (end of November) and as a result we had a bunch of messages come through on their Facebook page from people who had bought the keyboard saying that the http://www.realforce.co.jp page, which is supposed to host the supporting software to change actuation points and such, is not loading.

Despite *our* relative apathy toward RGB keyboards, the gamer crowd seem to be frothing at the mouth for it. It's also a $340 keyboard here :O

Durainello · 16 Nov 2016, 11:25

Get a Novatouch, it's way cheaper.

zslane wrote: ↑The only reason I care about the RGB is that it will allow me to put SA keycaps on a full-size board with Topre switches. I'm going to junk the stock keycaps immediately, and if I could I would junk the backlighting too, but since I can't I'll just be turning it off instead. Given my needs, I don't think there's much that Topre has to do to develop the product any further, apart from silencing the sliders (for the upstroke) maybe.

t!ng · 16 Nov 2016, 11:48

Maybe consider a Plum Nano 75 or 84?

keyboards-f2/plum-nano75-electrastatic- ... 13845.html

vendors-f52/plum-mini-84-electrastatic- ... 12673.html

I cant complain about the 75 at all. Having finally programmed my desired layout onto the board it has become my one and only daily driver. The key feel is very pleasant. I have the 45g version and it feels nearly as good as a 45g Topre - neither better nor worse. Consider that the switches are dampened.

RGB is a nice to have feature, but to be honest I don't give that much of a f*** about it as I thought I would.

adhoc · 16 Nov 2016, 15:47

002 wrote: ↑It's also a $340 keyboard here :O

Jesus that looks horrible.

I'm amazed noone has given the suggestion of HHKB.

Menuhin · 16 Nov 2016, 16:24

adhoc wrote: ↑
002 wrote: ↑It's also a $340 keyboard here :O
Jesus that looks horrible.

I'm amazed noone has given the suggestion of HHKB.

So Topre has joined the Chinese keyboard gang finally - from subtle meticulous classiness to vulgar over-excessive showing-off.

Wait, they can change actuation point - very interesting.
I'm curious about what RGB effects they selected to be present in their firmware.

zslane · 16 Nov 2016, 19:05

Durainello wrote: ↑Get a Novatouch, it's way cheaper.

I think you missed the part where I said I wanted a full-size board (and actually, I'd prefer ANSI-108 to ANSI-104).

The RealForce RGB is ideal, apart from having LED backlighting and stock keycaps I'll never use. Turn the former off and replace the latter with real keycaps (like PuLSE or Round 6 Space Cadet) and it will be a thing of tactile perfection.

Laser · 16 Nov 2016, 19:21

Separate numpad FTW

zslane · 16 Nov 2016, 19:22

Well, not exactly. A Topre numpad doesn't have MX-compatible switch sliders.

Laser · 16 Nov 2016, 19:29

zslane wrote: ↑Well, not exactly. A Topre numpad doesn't have MX-compatible switch sliders.

Yes, but a Cherry MX one does

(We are talking different markets here, I'm certainly looking at the $$$ spent)

Muirium · 16 Nov 2016, 20:46

Another a voice in Cookie's choir: get an 87U and you're done. Easily the best board they make under their own brand, and right up there with the classics like the SSK.

To me, the HHKB is even better, but no one needs told they want an HHKB. It's a board that finds you.

TuxKey · 16 Nov 2016, 22:38

Muirium wrote: ↑Another a voice in Cookie's choir: get an 87U and you're done. Easily the best board they make under their own brand, and right up there with the classics like the SSK.

To me, the HHKB is even better, but no one needs told they want an HHKB. It's a board that finds you.

Good one Muirium

..first thing i though of was "use the force Luke" the HHKB finds you ...ohh man hahaha

i went for the FC660C because i wanted a dedicated arrow cluster.. and the small form factor looked nice to me..
Also it's a match for my FC660M mx-clear...

later i traded a red esc pbt topre cap for a red pbt spacebar..After a while i bought all the topre pbt spacebars to have a look and later sell on to fellow eu topre users..
Keyboard enthusiasts need to stick together..

i have to agree with 002 ; RGB or backlit keycaps that come with keyboards are basically crap.
just a couple of hours ago a good friend brought his new WASD TKL Code keyboard.. thin ABS backlit keycaps are just crap.
the backspace felt wobbly and inconsistent not worthy of the name "Mechanical keyboard" let alone Topre..

i had a couple of double shot vortex cap PBT white/blue and black i had bought just to look at..
Not premium caps but then again i havent seen premium backlit PBT keycaps around..

i guess the people buying RGB / backlight boards are not the ones that appreciate good quality keycaps..

in my opinion the Topre RealForce RGB has to many features that i'm not sure about the actuation point changer worries me.
Also remember to NovaTouch cherry compatible stems and the problems sum people talked about, something to do with the modifiers keys not being all that wel. But a couple months back i sampled i modded NovaTouch with the Topre o-rings and
the "Carbon SA" keycap set. And it felt and sounded awesome..so if you don't mind getting your hands dirty the NovaTouch is certainly an option..

i can understand the reason for backlighting the same way it's nice to have on your macbook

But i think i would still consider thick PBT caps and simply turn on the backlight don't know how that would look to be honest..

To sum up my rant

If you can live without backlighting the RF 87u if you appreciate a detachable usb cable and a smaller form factor go for the FC660C i have it and don't regret it.

and if you like the backlighting to much just go for it and risk getting the Vortex backlight keycaps.
i know lots of people just dismiss the double shot vortex as being crappy but i don't agree if your on a budget they are perfect.

if you call $40 or $50 a low budget

Durainello · 17 Nov 2016, 02:25

Apologies, that was actually meant for Bobafetish.

zslane wrote: ↑
Durainello wrote: ↑Get a Novatouch, it's way cheaper.
I think you missed the part where I said I wanted a full-size board (and actually, I'd prefer ANSI-108 to ANSI-104).

The RealForce RGB is ideal, apart from having LED backlighting and stock keycaps I'll never use. Turn the former off and replace the latter with real keycaps (like PuLSE or Round 6 Space Cadet) and it will be a thing of tactile perfection.

zslane · 17 Nov 2016, 03:25

TuxKey wrote: ↑ i guess the people buying RGB / backlight boards are not the ones that appreciate good quality keycaps..

That might be true for the majority of buyers, but it's not true for all buyers. Some of us do appreciate good quality keycaps and plan to do a keycap swap on the RealForce RGB immediately upon its arrival.

I can see where there might be concern about the configurable actuation point; I doubt I'll change it on mine.

If you can live without backlighting the RF 87u if you appreciate a detachable usb cable and a smaller form factor go for the FC660C i have it and don't regret it.

I definitely plan to live without the backlighting (I am going to turn it off and pretend it doesn't exist), but I can't live with a TKL, and I have no use for boards that can't mount my SA (or DSA) keycap sets. So an 87U board is simply not an option, no matter how well-built it is.

cookie · 17 Nov 2016, 10:52

Over 300 bugs for that? No way...

Khers · 17 Nov 2016, 11:51

002's bugs are Australian, I presume, so around about 100 bugs less if they're American

zslane · 17 Nov 2016, 19:25

$260US at mechanicalkeyboards.com. It is still mightily expensive, but not imported-RealForce-104-UK-Hi-Pro expensive...

seebart · 17 Nov 2016, 19:31

zslane wrote: ↑$260US at mechanicalkeyboards.com. It is still mightily expensive, but not imported-RealForce-104-UK-Hi-Pro expensive...

$$$ wise you may be able to top that with this:

https://www.justmyshop.com/camp/realforcehipro/

: JustSystems_RF_108UW-HiPro_front.jpeg (368 KiB) Viewed 5496 times

zslane · 17 Nov 2016, 19:53

No doubt.

The only thing I want from that keyboard, though, is the red Esc key. Then I could pair it up with a red PBT spacebar.

seebart · 17 Nov 2016, 20:04

zslane wrote: ↑No doubt.

The only thing I want from that keyboard, though, is the red Esc key. Then I could pair it up with a red PBT spacebar.

No I want the whole keyboard, from what I remember we are talking above $300 as an import though.

zslane · 17 Nov 2016, 22:06

That sounds right to me. A 104UK Hi-Pro cost me $330US when I bought it around this time last year.