Alps Appreciation

[002]

Is it weird that I want to eat your keyboard? It looks like something made by a chocolatier

[alh84001]

gogusrl has some keycaps that would fit that theme really well

[Hypersphere]

@PerniciousPony: Glad you like the Hypersphere Silencing Rings!

I've tried to lighten SKCM Brown Alps with lighter return springs, but I didn't notice much of an effect. I think the heaviness in these switches comes mainly from the tight fit of the unique tactile leaf against the slider. You could swap out the tactile leaf with one from a later tactile switch (or if you don't mind clicky, use a click leaf from, say, a SKCM White Alps), but then you lose the solid character of the Brown switch.

[Scarpia]

I believe someone (Chyros? E3E?) has mentioned on multiple occasions that some hybrid of brown Alps and cream damped Alps (sliders/internals?) is the way to go, but I have yet to try it myself. Does anyone have details on this type of mod?

[Menuhin]

@Scarpia, I believe what you remember is perhaps the "Orange Creamsicle" modded Alps instead.

@PerniciousPony
Your board is almost perfection, please fit them with some nice caps eventually and make some typing videos.
And I also really like the basic KMJ case design - why can't there be basic design like these in recent years? Such as the Hammer case. All of them are > $200 anyways. And I do hope TaoBao can provide similar offer, but somehow I don't like those designs, perhaps the ones with proper industrial design training will not design for some keyboard cases in TaoBao.

[alh84001]

No, there was someone who put damped sliders into browns, but I think, but I may be mistaken, it was actually Hypersphere who did it.

[Hypersphere]

Generally I do not like damped sliders in Alps switches or clones. However, I prefer spacebars to be quiet, and so in the spacebar switch on Alps-switch keyboards, I have put a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch. However, even on the spacebar switch, I usually use a click leaf to have a clicky switch instead of a linear or tactile-only switch.

[emdude]

I believe someone (Chyros? E3E?) has mentioned on multiple occasions that some hybrid of brown Alps and cream damped Alps (sliders/internals?) is the way to go, but I have yet to try it myself. Does anyone have details on this type of mod?

I have a 60% that I modded in this manner, with Cream Damped Alps sliders. I don't think it matters what kind of damped Alps sliders you use for it.

[Hypersphere]

I believe someone (Chyros? E3E?) has mentioned on multiple occasions that some hybrid of brown Alps and cream damped Alps (sliders/internals?) is the way to go, but I have yet to try it myself. Does anyone have details on this type of mod?

I have a 60% that I modded in this manner, with Cream Damped Alps sliders. I don't think it matters what kind of damped Alps sliders you use for it.

Did you keep the Brown Alps tactile leaf and return spring in the hybridized switches? How did you like the result of your hybrid switches?

[alh84001]

BTW, shouldn't dampened sliders be paired with bottom casings from dampened switches for full effect?

[emdude]

I believe someone (Chyros? E3E?) has mentioned on multiple occasions that some hybrid of brown Alps and cream damped Alps (sliders/internals?) is the way to go, but I have yet to try it myself. Does anyone have details on this type of mod?

I have a 60% that I modded in this manner, with Cream Damped Alps sliders. I don't think it matters what kind of damped Alps sliders you use for it.

Did you keep the Brown Alps tactile leaf and return spring in the hybridized switches? How did you like the result of your hybrid switches?

I kept everything except for the slider. The tactile leaf is necessary, of course, and I figured swapping springs wouldn't make a difference since the stiffness of Brown Alps comes from the leaf, as you've mentioned earlier. Brown Alps springs are actually pretty light, IIRC, E3E measured them at approximately 50g.

I did not like the harsh bottom-out of regular Brown Alps, but they are much nicer now modified, IMO. My only real complaint is that my board's key caps fit the sliders very loosely. Some keys needed tape at the stems for a better fit because they would fall off if I held the keyboard upside-down.

BTW, shouldn't dampened sliders be paired with bottom casings from dampened switches for full effect?

I will check later, but is there a significant difference in the supports (for lack of a better word) that the bottom of the slider impacts between older and newer bottom casings? I personally do not recall feeling much of a difference.

[Hypersphere]

Here is a video with an audio clip of my Zenith 163-73 with SKCL Yellow Alps click-modded with top housings and click leaves from SKCM "Pine" White Alps. The bottom housings, sliders, and return springs are the original SKCL Yellow Alps. I cleaned the top housings, click leaves, springs, and sliders in an ultrasonic cleaner. I did not lube the switches.

To me, the hybrid switches have a feel and sound reminiscent of SKCM blue Alps, although they might feel slightly heavier.

Regarding Matias hybrids, I've found that the damped sliders from Matias switches work equally well in Matias housings as in Alps housings. The dampers in Matias sliders extend beyond the slider material on both the bottom and top.

[drevyek]

I believe someone (Chyros? E3E?) has mentioned on multiple occasions that some hybrid of brown Alps and cream damped Alps (sliders/internals?) is the way to go, but I have yet to try it myself. Does anyone have details on this type of mod?

I have a 60% that I modded in this manner, with Cream Damped Alps sliders. I don't think it matters what kind of damped Alps sliders you use for it.

If you look at the top and bottom case housings of the switch, you can see the small bars are a bit extended. This allows for better contact with the bumpers. One Matias switches, the bumpers extend beyond the slider, so it isn't needed.

I'm currently using cream bottom, orange springs, orange leaves, cream slider and orange top. I assume you can do the same, just swapping the orange parts for brown parts.

[emdude]

Ah, I see what you mean, like this then:

Spoiler:

My board uses the original bottom housings with grey switchplates and shorter bars. I was planning to get Matias QCs just for their sliders anyway; I filched my current sliders from an SGI and I want to return them at some point.

[drevyek]

When I took my creams apart, I found that they had two differently sized and coiled springs. Is that normal?

I swapped in the stem of a QC for my spacebar- the bumpers are much larger than cream bumpers, and don't need the extra cream tabs. The tabs actually make the experience less good, as it intercepts the slider before it finishes its stroke, making for a mushy sort of feeling at the bottom. So avoid using SKCM Damped case parts when swapping in Qx's (I assume it also goes for Damped whites)!

[Hypersphere]

Which method(s) do people here use to hold the spring in place when reassembling Alps switches with the bottom switch housings and switchplates already soldered to the keyboard? The three methods I know about are the following:

A. Dab of grease on the spring nub on the slider.

B. Placing the upright spring on the bottom of the switch housing and carefully lowering the top housing with slider and leaf onto the bottom of the switch.

C. Magnet.

I have been using method (A) above, but I am concerned that the grease might eventually gum up the works.

I've seen method (B) exhibited by Chyros in one of his videos. I tried this method , but I found it too fiddly and nerve-wracking.

The magnet methods looks the most appealing. I should have tried this long ago, but I didn't have quite the right magnet readily available.

[XMIT]

None. I hold the entire keyboard upside down and raise the top housing into place. A variant of B, I suppose.

I avoid this one as hard as I can. Just buy a desoldering station - you'll thank yourself later.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132014722831

Surely I've mentioned it before but I find that the switch plate itself makes the biggest difference in feel between switches. If anyone ever has a bunch of tall switch plates they don't know what to do with, send them to me! Orange Alps with click leaves really give Blue Alps a run for their money.

[Hypersphere]

@XMIT: Wow! Your method would seem to involve some amazing contortions. I tried it this way once, and quickly changed to the dab of grease method.

Chyros chimed in on this question over on GH, and I am now putting a Blue Alps board (Leading Edge DC-2014) back together using a variant of method (B). I place the spring in the bottom housing and gently lower the upper housing + click leaf + slider assembly onto the spring. This is not as convenient for me as the dab of grease method, but it keeps grease out of the switch.

You make a good point about just soldering in one's switches of choice instead of trying to create a hybrid switch that emulates a Blue Alps. I suppose if one wanted Blue Alps, the best way would be to solder in Blue Alps switches. Perhaps the next best way would be to solder in Orange Alps and then click mod them by clipping the tabs on the tactile leaves or putting in click leaves from Blue Alps or perhaps White or Matias Click switches.

However, if you have a board whose switches need internal cleaning, you need to take the switches apart, clean the parts, and reassemble. This is what I am up to today.

BTW, I think that SKCM White Alps are underappreciated, perhaps because some people might be basing their impressions on newer versions with Bamboo housings. Alternatively, they might have encountered older Pine versions that were in need of cleaning and/or lubing. The chassis makes a major difference as well. At present, my favorite Alps board is a Northgate Omnikey 101 with SKCM Pine White Alps -- the switches are in excellent shape and the Northgate chassis with its several layers of steel contributes to a rock-solid sound and feel.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Hi guys, I can't remember wether or not I've already asked it, but if I did, please ignore.
I've got a bag of dampened cream alps, and some of them, although not click moded, click. Why it is? It really disrurbs me when I'm typing, and makes the tactile feedback sharper, when it's already razersharp.

[PollandAkuma]

I have now acquired a newfound appreciation for clickies... to be specific - Alps clickys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rainman]

I just bought my first alps keyboard, Matias Click V60. I'm really getting used to the alps switches, it's a completely new experience from cherry. Is there a way to lube alps type stabilizers? The stabilizers do make a bih of a pingy noise when typing. Also, I'm expereincing key chatter on "R" key. Is there a quick hack to remove the chatter by doing some cool hack without actually opening the switch

[Rainman]

I just bought my first alps keyboard, Matias Click V60. I'm really getting used to the alps switches, it's a completely new experience from cherry. Is there a way to lube alps type stabilizers? The stabilizers do make a bih of a pingy noise when typing. Also, I'm expereincing key chatter on "R" key. Is there a quick hack to remove the chatter by doing some cool hack without actually opening the switch or replacing it?

[alh84001]

Welcome aboard Opening an Alps switch is actually quite simple. You should take a look at Chyros' video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mhmb2kBuwQ . For key chatter, you should probably strip the contact leaf from the contact pad and try cleaning the small plastic hammer and leaf beneath it.

[drevyek]

Hi guys, I can't remember wether or not I've already asked it, but if I did, please ignore.
I've got a bag of dampened cream alps, and some of them, although not click moded, click. Why it is? It really disrurbs me when I'm typing, and makes the tactile feedback sharper, when it's already razersharp.

This happened (happens) to me with my creams as well. It's normal, but you only notice it on the silent boards.

The way that the tactile leaves are designed, in their little space in the case, they have a little bit of room to move around. I'm not talking a lot, but a minuscule amount- almost imperceptible. But it is enough, especially at the bottom of the leaf, to cause the switches to click on the return stroke. Basically, this small gap creates enough room for the leaf to move during actuation, and cause a click.

To fix it, I did what I've known as a "paper mod", which involves cutting a small piece of paper and inserting it into the switch, behind the tactile leaf. You need to make sure it is exactly the width of the leaf, or you can end up bending the leaf a bit too much.
This pushes the leaf (evenly, I hope) into the case housing. It completely removes the click (for me). It may take one or two tries to get it to work, though. I use paper from a post it note (what I had laying around at the time) and it works quite well for me.

Not sure who first came up with this mod, but I'm grateful! Additionally, there is a "tape mod" that is the same thing, but uses scotch tape.

It shouldn't really be increasing the tactility, though. It is already very harsh in creams- doesn't need any more!

[Hypersphere]

@drevyek: In your paper mod with Post-it notes, do you use any of the adhesive portion of the paper or do you use the adhesive-free part of the paper? If you use the adhesive portion, does the sticky side face the switch housing?

With the tape mod, this would necessarily involve adhesive. Do you know if the sticky side faces the switch housing rather than facing the tactile leaf?

@Lynx_Carpathica: The clicking you are experiencing is due to quantum fluctuations in the space-time continuum. This is Nature's way of telling you that you should be using clicky Alps switches!

@Rainman: The V60MTS boards have the wire-type stabilizers, which is nice, because everything is accessible from the top of the board. You can apply a little dab of synthetic grease to all the friction points and articulations -- wherever the stabilizer wires make contact with plastic (e.g., the stabilizer inserts in the keycaps and the stabilizer clips on the plate). You can also quieten the spacebar by putting little squares of thin self-adhesive foam on the plate where the stabilizer inserts would hit the plate. It is also possible to swap out the slider in the spacebar switch with a slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

As for the chattering, unfortunately, it seems that some Matias-switch keyboards made during 2016 suffer from this problem. If the board is under warranty, you should be able to return it for repair. Alternatively, you can try cleaning the switch by removing the top housing along with the slider, spring, and click leaf and blasting the inside of the switch with lubricant-free contact cleaner. Allow the switch to dry completely and then reassemble the switch. Unlike SKCM Alps, Matias switches are tricky to reassemble -- be very careful with the top housing to be sure you do not mangle the contact leaf.

Matias and KBP are aware of the chattering issue, and they say it will be corrected.

[Scarpia]

@Lynx_Carpathica: The clicking you are experiencing is due to quantum fluctuations in the space-time continuum. This is Nature's way of telling you that you should be using clicky Alps switches!

Agree. Furthermore, Schröedinger's Cream Alps Theorem (sometimes abbreviated, leading to much confusion and animal cruelty) states that those switches should never be touched.

You may observe Cream Alps from afar, and they will be simultaneously clicky and tactile. The instant you depress that slider, the waveform collapses and the switch will either click .. or it won't.

[Hypersphere]

@Scarpia: +1

[Rainman]

Welcome aboard Opening an Alps switch is actually quite simple. You should take a look at Chyros' video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mhmb2kBuwQ . For key chatter, you should probably strip the contact leaf from the contact pad and try cleaning the small plastic hammer and leaf beneath it.

Thank you I've followed Chyro's video and managed to open the switch and your advice and cleaned the contact leaf with a toothpick. Seems that keychatter is a gone. I will test the keyboard further and see if it pops up again.
Now, next thing is to lube the stabilizers + try to mount a Pok3r metal case. Hopefully It will work out with the openings.

Anyways, ALPS really are loud and are very tactile compared to any MX switch I tried. I wonder how other alps feel. My quest shall begin here

[mike52787]

@Lynx_Carpathica: The clicking you are experiencing is due to quantum fluctuations in the space-time continuum. This is Nature's way of telling you that you should be using clicky Alps switches!

Agree. Furthermore, Schröedinger's Cream Alps Theorem (sometimes abbreviated, leading to much confusion and animal cruelty) states that those switches should never be touched.

You may observe Cream Alps from afar, and they will be simultaneously clicky and tactile. The instant you depress that slider, the waveform collapses and the switch will either click .. or it won't.

Make sure youre talking about dampened cream :p The REAL creams should be arriving to you soon for the great switch tour.

[Hypersphere]

@Rainman: Matias Click switches are "Alps-inspired". The design is based on simplified white Alps switches (Alps SKBM white). They are the loudest switches that I have tried, with the possible exception of IBM Model F (capacitive buckling spring). They are also quite tactile.

Although I favor Matias Click switches over any Cherry mx I have tried, I rank them well below SKCM White Pine Alps or SKCM Blue Alps. However, Matias switches have the advantage of being available now, either installed in keyboards or as loose switches.

The V60MTS-C is a fun little board. I've spruced mine up a bit by installing dye-sub PBT caps from an IBM 5140 for the alphanumeric keys and blank black ABS modifiers and spacebar from Matias. I momentarily had it in a TEX aluminum case, but I didn't like the sound and put it back in the stock plastic case.