A new US Republican thread 2016

[vivalarevolución]

Someone suggested he may want to investigate to make sure no child labor laws are being broken, with all the out-of-state 10-year-old paid protestors at his town hall meetings.

Why should 10-year-olds care about air pollution or toxic waste dumped in waterways, anyway? They should all be sitting inside studying the part of the bible where Jesus advocates deporting the poor, locking up the minor drug offenders for life, and handing public infrastructure over to oligarchs.

I missed that part in the Bible but I'm with you, Jacobolus. Parents and other authorities shouldn't be indoctrinating young children in their views about world affairs and civil morality until they are old enough to have the critical thinking skills to make their own decisions about such things.

I'm sure the children present at the town hall meeting came by bus after independently reading newspapers and scientific journals and arriving at their convictions without parental or teacher influence.

Yea, um, we all indoctrinate our children in some way as parents and teachers, we are human. I hope we can indoctrinate them with an interest in healthy skepticism, scientific inquiry, pursuit of knowledge, intellectual curiosity, reason, appreciation of evidence-based research done within standards of integrity, stewardship of natural resources from an ecological perspective for future generations, lifelong learning, rejection of ideology, and other principles that do not leave them fearful, confused, close-minded, and incurious.

Seems like even some conservative Mormons in Chaffetz’s district are fed up with him not even pretending to do his job as chairman of the House oversight committee, evidence of a categorical lack of moral virtue (something I hear some religious people care about), https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ce/516303/

Chaffetz won his district with about 73.5% of the vote, and about 75,000 people voting against him. I do wonder if all those that showed were from his district. But I appreciate the peaceful spectacle. Do your job and investigate ethics issues rather than be a party shill.

Not implausible analysis, http://www.salon.com/2017/02/12/trumps- ... proves-it/

In other words, Trumpism (and far-right movements across Europe, etc.) are the result of a delusional constructed self-victimization by whites, used to justify ongoing abuse of others in the society. (Not necessarily constructed by themselves; what they have legitimately been victims of is a relentless propaganda campaign from the right.)

As shorthand, we might say Trump supporters have been thoroughly snowflaked, and are now being used.

Related WaPo editorial: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

So white folks now understand what it feels like to be a forgotten, ignored, and silenced minority in this country, afraid of being criticized for their support and beliefs? Is that what is going on here? If that is the way you feel, I simply ask that you sit back and try to understand how a traditionally oppressed minority has felt at most junctures in our country's history. You may not be a racist, sexist, or whatever blanket label is being thrown around. But you might feel the same as people that you might view as the opposition.

[fohat]

We all indoctrinate our children in some way as parents and teachers, we are human. I hope we can indoctrinate them with an interest in healthy skepticism, scientific inquiry, pursuit of knowledge, intellectual curiosity, reason, appreciation of evidence-based research done within standards of integrity, stewardship of natural resources from an ecological perspective for future generations, lifelong learning, rejection of ideology, and other principles that do not leave them fearful, confused, close-minded, and incurious.

Education and indoctrination are distinct but often intertwined. Some of my critics (cough* kurplop *cough) might accuse me of some nefariousnesses in the way I educated my children, but I always encouraged them to think for themselves from the earliest stages of their lives. We played games where I encouraged them to figure things out for themselves and rewarded them for critical logical thinking.

The fact that much of today's religion rejects science is religion's problem, no matter how much punishment they choose to inflict on science (if "religion" and "science" could even be referred to as monolithic entities, which, of course, they cannot). "Science" fears religion because it has, mostly in recent decades, launched an illogical, irrational assault, across the board, in the immediate present, against "the scientific method" as a fundamental way of human thinking. "Religion's" fear of science is existential because, as the saying goes, "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer" and when you follow the evidence you cannot predict in advance where it will lead you. The search for truth and reality does not care whether religion exists at all - unless it is throwing impediments in the way of knowledge and understanding - and then it becomes "damage" to be routed around.

[jacobolus]

To be fair to Kurplop, I think he mostly was objecting to taking children to political meetings, rather than teaching them science.

Personally I think it’s great to take children to political meetings (and concerts, and speeches, and lectures, and protest marches, ...), so long as they are asking their own questions (which, in my opinion, 10 year olds are plenty capable of). Just because a child asked a question at a town hall meeting doesn’t mean that child was necessarily set up as a prop.

My original main point was that Chaffetz’s claims about everyone at his town hall meeting being a hired actor from out of state is ridiculous on its face. He’s lying and dodging questions and hiding from the people of Utah because he doesn’t have any credible real answers.

[jacobolus]

Trump is getting into Bush 2006 or Clinton politically-botched-healthcare-plan or Obama middle-of-healthcare.gov-rollout approval rate territory, and it hasn’t even been a month yet.

Clinton:


Bush II:


Obama:


Trump:


Bannon is looking at that Bush chart and praying for a massive terror attack. May the flying spaghetti monster have mercy on our souls.

[vivalarevolución]

We all indoctrinate our children in some way as parents and teachers, we are human. I hope we can indoctrinate them with an interest in healthy skepticism, scientific inquiry, pursuit of knowledge, intellectual curiosity, reason, appreciation of evidence-based research done within standards of integrity, stewardship of natural resources from an ecological perspective for future generations, lifelong learning, rejection of ideology, and other principles that do not leave them fearful, confused, close-minded, and incurious.

Education and indoctrination are distinct but often intertwined. Some of my critics (cough* kurplop *cough) might accuse me of some nefariousnesses in the way I educated my children, but I always encouraged them to think for themselves from the earliest stages of their lives. We played games where I encouraged them to figure things out for themselves and rewarded them for critical logical thinking.

The fact that much of today's religion rejects science is religion's problem, no matter how much punishment they choose to inflict on science (if "religion" and "science" could even be referred to as monolithic entities, which, of course, they cannot). "Science" fears religion because it has, mostly in recent decades, launched an illogical, irrational assault, across the board, in the immediate present, against "the scientific method" as a fundamental way of human thinking. "Religion's" fear of science is existential because, as the saying goes, "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer" and when you follow the evidence you cannot predict in advance where it will lead you. The search for truth and reality does not care whether religion exists at all - unless it is throwing impediments in the way of knowledge and understanding - and then it becomes "damage" to be routed around.

There is nothing that says religion and science have to be mutually exclusive ideas or incompatible. Many scientists are devoutly religious and I have known a few. There is nothing about being Christian that says you should not seek to understand and solve problems through scientific research. But if you fear any challenge to your deeply held beliefs, you may not have an open ear and mind to scientific principles and research.

Science, at its heart, it just a systematic method to figure out how stuff works. Science does not pretend to have all the answers, but is more so an unending pursuit to find them. Why that has to be so political is kinda stupid. I guess when the research does not jive with your political agenda, the conclusions of science research should be silenced.

To be fair to Kurplop, I think he mostly was objecting to taking children to political meetings, rather than teaching them science.

Personally I think it’s great to take children to political meetings (and concerts, and speeches, and lectures, and protest marches, ...), so long as they are asking their own questions (which, in my opinion, 10 year olds are plenty capable of). Just because a child asked a question at a town hall meeting doesn’t mean that child was necessarily set up as a prop.

My original main point was that Chaffetz’s claims about everyone at his town hall meeting being a hired actor from out of state is ridiculous on its face. He’s lying and dodging questions and hiding from the people of Utah because he doesn’t have any credible real answers.

I remember being 10 and asking lots of questions. My parents could not answer them. They pointed me to our collection of encyclopedias. That probably was their first mistake if they wanted me to be an obedient child. We've been arguing ever since.

[vivalarevolución]

Education is valuable, though. It's spelled W.E.B. DuBois.

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Just a reminder, for fun:

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[jacobolus]

As Mar-a-Lago’s wealthy members looked on from their tables, and with a keyboard player crooning in the background, Trump and Abe’s evening meal quickly morphed into a strategy session, the decision-making on full view to fellow diners, who described it in detail to CNN.

… Trump’s National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and chief strategist Steve Bannon left their seats to huddle closer to Trump as documents were produced and phone calls were placed to officials in Washington and Tokyo.

The patio was lit only with candles and moonlight, so aides used the camera lights on their phones to help the stone-faced Trump and Abe read through the documents.

Even as a flurry of advisers and translators descended upon the table carrying papers and phones for their bosses to consult, dinner itself proceeded apace. Waiters cleared the wedge salads and brought along the main course as Trump and Abe continued consulting with aides.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/12/politics/ ... index.html

More evidence Trump can’t read?

[...] Trump, in his short remarks, didn't mention the launch. He used a short statement to vow support for Japan instead.

"I just want everybody to understand and fully know that the United States of America stands behind Japan, its great ally, 100%," Trump said.

He declined to read from a set of prepared remarks, which photographers captured images of, that were resting on his podium. Those remarks did mention the missile test specifically and vowed cooperation between allies to "safeguard and protect" against North Korea's "provocative acts."

"That was a joint statement we decided not to make," a senior administration official said afterward, explaining why those remarks were cast aside. Because Abe spoke first, and then Trump, there was "no need for communique," the official said.

Trump left the impromptu briefing room without taking questions, having delivered the first emergency foreign policy statement of his presidency,

But even as he confronted one of the gravest matters of his office, Trump nonetheless found it impossible to resist dropping in on a nearby wedding reception, already underway in his treasured Grand Ballroom. Trump designed and built the space himself after purchasing Mar-a-Lago in the 1980s.

Entering the ornate room, Trump took a photo with the bride and her bridesmaids, who posed in red gowns next to the commander in chief, mimicking his signature thumbs-up.

Then he grabbed a microphone.

"I saw them out on the lawn today," Trump said of the bride and groom, who were standing nearby. "I said to the Prime Minister of Japan, I said, 'C'mon Shinzo, let's go over and say hello.' "

"They've been members of this club for a long time," Trump said of the newlyweds. "They've paid me a fortune."

[002]

There's a video of him reading Al Wilson's 'The Snake' on YouTube and I think it's the only video I've seen of him wearing reading glasses. I wouldn't put it past him to think that wearing glasses is sad, so sad -- and that people are saying he has the best eyes. Terrific, wonderful eyes.

[seebart]

I have my doubts Trump cannot read, as an illiterate how could he have built his business? I am convinced however that he is unable to use a computer.

Spoiler:

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[002]

Probably not really uncommon for 70 year olds to be pretty lacklustre in the computing department. I'm sure everyone has cool stories of their parents / grandparents who are just great with the cyber and all that, but I'd say for the most part, computers were *just* out of reach for that generation.

[seebart]

Probably not really uncommon for 70 year olds to be pretty lacklustre in the computing department. I'm sure everyone has cool stories of their parents / grandparents who are just great with the cyber and all that, but I'd say for the most part, computers were *just* out of reach for that generation.

Right, that's one "handicap" that should not be a problem for that job anyway. I mean Merkel said publicly that "the Internet was new territory" in 2013! All of Germany laughed at her for it...

[002]

This probably isn't the place for it, but bringing up Merkel made me think of this interview I saw the other day:

Is it really as bad as this woman makes it out to be? She suggests that Berlin is not bad because they refugees are all in the smaller cities and towns.

[webwit]

Trump:


Bannon is looking at that Bush chart and praying for a massive terror attack. May the flying spaghetti monster have mercy on our souls.

Classic shit chart. Here, let me fix it for you. The area below the green lines is the support. So 4 out of 10 are behind the orange guy, and he only lost .5 in 10 there after all the shit of the past weeks.

[seebart]

Is it really as bad as this woman makes it out to be? She suggests that Berlin is not bad because they refugees are all in the smaller cities and towns.

Well remember that Germany is filled with little old ladies that like to tell their stories when the camera is rolling...on the other hand you take the numbers by themselfs anyone must realize that these are challenging times for all of Europe. The refugees are supposed to be spread over Germany but many obviously prefer the cities to rural areas. Let me put it this way: Germany has regional and federal elections coming up this year, these will be very interesting...we don't have a Trump that could be elected but the situation won't get easier and Frau Merkel isn't gaining popularity. The killing of twelve people in Berlin on 19 December 2016 changed everything.

[002]

Is that the one where he fucks Hillary and the Democrats?
Edit: Ah you deleted your post -- it was something like "Give the old grumpy lady one of the pornos with Donald Trump in it"

[jacobolus]

It’s a human centipede, with Putin at the front, then Trump, then the planet.

[002]

Haha -- yeah I'll pay that.
Not quite the porn I'm into but I'm a bit of a traditional conservative prude.

[kbdfr]

Probably not really uncommon for 70 year olds to be pretty lacklustre in the computing department. I'm sure everyone has cool stories of their parents / grandparents who are just great with the cyber and all that, but I'd say for the most part, computers were *just* out of reach for that generation.

May I object?

[002]

Hey it's not like you to ask before objecting! I didn't think you were *that* old.

[seebart]

Probably not really uncommon for 70 year olds to be pretty lacklustre in the computing department. I'm sure everyone has cool stories of their parents / grandparents who are just great with the cyber and all that, but I'd say for the most part, computers were *just* out of reach for that generation.

May I object?

OK you are the exception!

[fohat]

I am not 70 (yet), but I am reasonably proficient with the Cyber.

What I don't understand, or relate to, is social media. I just don't care about where you went last night or what somebody had for lunch, and it is none of their business where I went or what I had. If I wanted to know, I would have asked, and if you want to know, you should ask me.

Twitter seems particularly vapid and banal, but that is just me.

[7bit]

Is it really as bad as this woman makes it out to be? She suggests that Berlin is not bad because they refugees are all in the smaller cities and towns.

... The killing of twelve people in Berlin on 19 December 2016 changed everything.

To me it changed nothing!

Yet another terror attack done by a ruthless criminal, which could have been avoided if brutal criminals would have to stay in jail for much longer.

It is always the same pattern:

Code: Select all

10 terror act
20 shock
30 politicians promisse to make sure that all terrorists will be put to justice
40 later, they explain it is not possible to put all  terrorists to justice ...
50 ... but politicians want more laws against terror (which basically hit the normal people) 
60 goto 10

[webwit]

Do the "terrorists" include or exclude the torturing wedding bombers?

[seebart]

Yet another terror attack done by a ruthless criminal, which could have been avoided if brutal criminals would have to stay in jail for much longer.

As you know the individual who killed those twelve people was not in jail prior to that "event"...

Do the "terrorists" include or exclude the torturing wedding bombers?

If I had to guess I would say that excludes anything else. Of course no "wedding bombers" were directly involved in this case, indirectly yes.

[webwit]

Actually the US at one point passed a law that it if any US citizens are put in jail by the International Criminal Court in The Hague, they can invade the Netherlands. Of course, the US is among the four rogue countries on Earth that dismissed the ICC. That torture and wedding bombing stuff is haunting them.

[vivalarevolución]

This probably isn't the place for it, but bringing up Merkel made me think of this interview I saw the other day:

Isn't the place for it? Come on, anything goes in this thread.

killing of twelve people in Berlin on 19 December 2016 changed everything.

That many people can get killed in Chicago on any given weekend. You all must live in a bubble.

That many civilians can also die in a wayward raid or bombing conducted by the USA, Russia, or other imperialist country on any given day.

When you're the victim or someone you know is the victim of such violence and destruction, it's hard to determine clear lines between what forces are good or bad, what might be right and what might be wrong. It's easy to understand that the response might be...Wait for it...More violence and destruction.

Do the "terrorists" include or exclude the torturing wedding bombers?

You need some new lines. Now our government is into botched successful ground raids, get with the times.

[webwit]

I think they're still playing video games with their little drones, and when there's like a 10% chance the enemy is at a location, and a 100% chance there are innocent people out there, they press the button. In the meantime, US citizens are worried about their president trying doors in his bathrobe.

[seebart]

That many people can get killed in Chicago on any given weekend. You all must live in a bubble.

That's no argument, every single human killed is too much. I'm sure we agree.

[Ratfink]

That many people can get killed in Chicago on any given weekend. You all must live in a bubble.

That's no argument, every single human killed is too much. I'm sure we agree.

I believe the argument is that there's a disproportionately large reaction to certain killings due to them being labeled as terrorism, not that killing twelve people is okay.

The acts of terrorism committed by the U.S. Federal Government are just as bad as those committed by others, but they aren't labeled as terrorism to U.S. citizens, so most don't mind. What boggles me is the hypocrisy from so many of our leaders who say they want to end terrorism, then go on ordering terrorism to be done.

[vivalarevolución]

I think they're still playing video games with their little drones, and when there's like a 10% chance the enemy is at a location, and a 100% chance there are innocent people out there, they press the button. In the meantime, US citizens are worried about their president trying doors in his bathrobe.

The average American does not concern themselves with the effects of our military operations on civilians in other countries. Plain and simple. It's become such background noise at this point in our history. Debates about bathrobes are more entertaining and less depressing.

On a related note, the president's personal habits are somewhat important, considering that personal habits have an effect on their decision making, which affects vast amounts of people. Although the bathrobe debates are simply a distraction.

That many people can get killed in Chicago on any given weekend. You all must live in a bubble.

That's no argument, every single human killed is too much. I'm sure we agree.

Okay, I agree, my argument is weak. Equating American gang-related violence with the Christmas market truck incident is errorneous. Different situations, different causes, different reactions. However, I find it fascinating that some violence is viewed as routine and non-emergency, even though it is a much more clear and present danger (for example, inner city gang violence), while low probability acts of terrorism must be stopped at all costs, including the often more destructive responses.

In fact, tit-for-tat is the nature of gang violence. So acts of terrorism and violent responses to it are essentially a fight of global, militarized gangs, competing for world turf and influence, with little concern for the collateral damage on non-actors in the field of battle.