Mechanical keyboard reviews in HD! :D

[lancre]

Fans are overrated. One intelligent person's deep insight is worth a thousand fawning admirers.

In statistics we would call this an outlier.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Many good things are outliers.

[andrewjoy]

Now that 2016 is over and I've done a year of reviews every week for a year, there is the question of where to go from here. Many people have suggested getting better audio and video equipment to make the videos look and sound better - and I have responded by setting up a crowdfunding programme! Check it out:

https://www.gofundme.com/hd-mechanical-keyboard-reviews

Try to make sure it can do 1080p 60 , i would rather 60fps 1080 than 30fps 4k

[//gainsborough]

It surprises me to see this much backlash. I am going to choose to believe this is simply a vocal minority. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in the keyboard community who didn't think Chyros was anything less than a humble and good-willed enthusiast simply trying to share his passion for keyboards to a broader audience whilst wanting to bring the best quality product to the table for his viewers. To the point that he's bringing us something we didn't ask for: the fact that he raised the money he needed in under 24 hours I think destroys that argument's validity. It's important to remember that members of this forum are but a small subset of the people who watch Chyros' video reviews.

It sends a positive message to his viewers as well: "Hey, I want to make this channel even better for you." The first thing I thought when I watched the announcement was "aw hells yeah, Chyros is gonna keep doing reviews!" He can stop doing this at any time, but instead he chooses to spend his time and effort on content creation for the community. It's not like we're paying him for entertaining us either, he's giving all of these donations back to his viewers. Even if you can't or don't donate, I think it's always encouraging to hear a content creator say that he/she would like to improve his/her product. I eagerly await the weekend when I know another board will be reviewed, and my knowledge of this hobby will be widened. In my mind, donating a few bucks is honestly the least I can do, but even that's somewhat selfish anyway, since I know I'll directly benefit.

[Wodan]

There are different levels of appreciation for youtube videos, to me they are not much more than entertainment. Even before he started doing contract/commercial reviews this has been adressed here. Despite several requests he has refused to transfer any of his finding to the wiki or another searchable/referenceable format.

It's still a fun source of information for many community members but not living up to the expectation some of the DT scientists have for a fund-worthy contributor. He is the first person from the community that started making money with his keyboard reviews and at the same time the first person to ask for community funding for his keyboard reviews. Choosing ONE of these paths would be a lot less irritating to me.

[XMIT]

I wish Chyros would take the time to update the wiki with his findings, or have some other way of getting at the information in the videos other than watching them or searching through the auto-generated transcripts. You can't really do a text search on audio in YouTube videos (yet). But this is not a new concern.

I can read about ten times faster than I can watch a video, and can type about twice as fast as I can talk, which is important for someone as time pressed as me. I don't get to watch all the videos.

That, and a tripod, but Chyros told me a while ago he was at least getting a phone holder.

Even with the above concerns, I'd like for Chyros to continue his work.

[Chyros]

There are different levels of appreciation for youtube videos, to me they are not much more than entertainment. Even before he started doing contract/commercial reviews this has been adressed here. Despite several requests he has refused to transfer any of his finding to the wiki or another searchable/referenceable format.

It's still a fun source of information for many community members but not living up to the expectation some of the DT scientists have for a fund-worthy contributor. He is the first person from the community that started making money with his keyboard reviews and at the same time the first person to ask for community funding for his keyboard reviews. Choosing ONE of these paths would be a lot less irritating to me.

To me this entire post is just completely unreasonable in every way, and this sort of hypocritical rudeness really gets my blood boiling.


It's not that I'm _refusing_ to add any stuff to the wiki, it's that this stuff already takes up way more of my time than I can probably afford. I don't think you quite understand the amount of time and effort that goes into these videos. You think I'm still not doing enough for the community despite this? Well how many hours a week, EVERY week, do I need to put into the wiki before I'm worthy of your approval, oh mighty one? Or better yet, how many do you contribute every week? In fact, why the hell would I need your approval anyway? Or do I need to contribute more than you (if I don't already) before I'm somehow "worthy" of asking politely for voluntary donations? Besides, I'm not creating this content just for DT, I'm making it for everyone.

Either way, if my campaign irritates you, please feel free to keep this completely to yourself. It's not like viewing my videos costs you anything, or if I'm knocking on your door with an audit or something. In fact, why the hell are you vomiting bile all over this thing in public anyway? If you had genuine objections (which you don't, you're really just whining), you could've PM'd me or something, or even just kept it to yourself. But no, you had to elect coming in here and starting complaining about free stuff, publically, while I'm trying to get this off the ground. Do you complain at TV companies that you have to pay for watching TV, too? If not, then what the hell are you waiting for? Netflix asks a LOT more per video than I've ever done. And yes, I'm sorry I don't really like Cherry MX, your one and only true love in the universe that you can't tolerate any criticism against, but I just don't, okay? Live with it.

And don't you dare dangle the word "scientist" in front of me as if it's a concept I'm not familiar with. If you think that you're so much better or smarter than me that it somehow gives you the right to slag me off in public, let's see it then.

In fact, I think you should never watch any of my videos ever again. If they're so terrible and clearly not worth your time, why are you even in this topic making a big fuss out of absolutely nothing?

[XMIT]

Come on guys, let's be civil. DT has taken a really weird turn this year and this thread is just a part of it. Keep this up and XMIT is going to start spending a lot more time on geekhack and Reddit where people don't make such a big deal over nothing. First the Republican thread, then Chinese trolling, then the general lack of new project work and now this. I'm really seeing an ugly side to some respected forum members here. Too bad Muirium isn't here to whip you all into shape.

Chyros, I'll shoot you PM, but for some logistical reasons I'd like to donate using Paypal and that's not an option with your link. I'll send you a PM.

(edited for a typo)

[wobbled]

There are different levels of appreciation for youtube videos, to me they are not much more than entertainment. Even before he started doing contract/commercial reviews this has been adressed here. Despite several requests he has refused to transfer any of his finding to the wiki or another searchable/referenceable format.

It's still a fun source of information for many community members but not living up to the expectation some of the DT scientists have for a fund-worthy contributor. He is the first person from the community that started making money with his keyboard reviews and at the same time the first person to ask for community funding for his keyboard reviews. Choosing ONE of these paths would be a lot less irritating to me.

No one cares what would be less irritating for you, get over it and get a life.

[seebart]

I'm not sure sure DT has taken a "weird turn this year" XMIT? People come, people go. This whole forum is constantly changing and I'm sure there were bigger "upsets" before any of this like that whole sixty story which was before my time here. I've been turned off to doing any more of my usual keyboard posts by several little incidents but Chyros is not one of them, I can still talk to him productively regardless, there are other users here where basic communication is quite exhausting. We should all remember that DT existed before all of this, to me personally the overall content I got here seemed more satisfying 1-2 years ago but that's my opinion no more. All this emotion is silly really, reminds me a little bit of when I suggested the closed clubhouse area and got death threats for "trying to destroy" the great finds thread which turns out was vital for life to a few users here. Where is the great finds thread today? Going stronger than ever. What amount of effort you put in to your work is of course your own choice Chyros. To be fair your content is not exclusive to DT.

[Wodan]

...
In fact, I think you should never watch any of my videos ever again. If they're so terrible and clearly not worth your time, why are you even in this topic making a big fuss out of absolutely nothing?

Some of the are actuall great to watch and give me a great impression of a nice keyboard.

In fact, I think you should stop making videos - especially paid ones - if you have issues with people calling you out on shady reviews and unproven claims. And my tolerances for that are even lower when you do it as a job ...

And yeah thanks for the generic "Youtuber gone commercial" speech ...

I will keep my criticism as objective as I can. If you keep your claims as proven as you can, we might never clash again.

[y11971alex]

[...] Choosing ONE of these paths would be a lot less irritating to me.

But that's a completely unnecessary dichotomy. Funds aren't being exclusively raised from DT members, nor are the videos for DT eyes only. The nature of YouTube video viewership is such that there is no distinction on that platform between DT members and non-DT members, and funds are being raised for YouTube videos, and I don't see any reason to become so defensive. The same campaign, which is publicly visible, was also posted on Reddit, proving by and large that there is nothing ulterior about its presence here.

I really don't want to spell out what I suspect the grounds of your reservation are, which I think are founded more on cynicism than fact.

[XMIT]

Yeah, I guess I'd just love to see a new switch discovery or another beamspring restoration project. I was really happy to see ohaimark get his hands on a Datahand! Let's have more of that.

I for one would like to see more posts from you seebart.

Chyros, do you think you could add any sorts of tear downs for your reviews, such as showing how to remove key caps or open the case? One of the great ways that video can help more than text reviews is showing people how to hack on their boards. NEC blue ovals and Key Tronic vintage foam and foil are two switch types where, if you are not careful with cap removal, you can permanently break something.

A full video log of a restoration would be nice.

I donated about 20 USD to your cause through Paypal, keep it up!

[XMIT]

To be fair your content is not exclusive to DT.

I do try to follow a "DT First" approach (as I say drinking delicious Burundi coffee out of my DT mug).

[y11971alex]

...
In fact, I think you should never watch any of my videos ever again. If they're so terrible and clearly not worth your time, why are you even in this topic making a big fuss out of absolutely nothing?

In fact, I think you should stop making videos - especially paid ones - if you have issues with people calling you out on shady reviews and unproven claims. And my tolerances for that are even lower when you do it as a job ...

Since when has he ever been paid to do a review? Getting sent samples of products, within a reasonable quantity and for the purpose of reviewing, isn't the same as getting paid to do a review. And it is abundantly clear that this isn't being done as a job, but as a hobby. There are far better options if he expects a profitable return for his time and effort. Collecting gas on Neptune will probably be a better paying job than this. A review is an expression of personal opinion. As long as those opinions are personal and genuine, they are a legitimate part of the review. They don't have to be true or factual. This I think chyrosran22 has multiple times affirmed in his videos that they consist of his opinions. There's a difference between a YouTube review video and a doctoral dissertation, a distinction that chyrosran22 will surely appreciate.

Actually, since Neptune is a gas giant, a fact that just re-emerged in my mind, collecting trash there would be impossible. I have therefore changed it to read "collecting gas".

[Chyros]

Chyros, do you think you could add any sorts of tear downs for your reviews, such as showing how to remove key caps or open the case? One of the great ways that video can help more than text reviews is showing people how to hack on their boards. NEC blue ovals and Key Tronic vintage foam and foil are two switch types where, if you are not careful with cap removal, you can permanently break something.

This is something I wanted to do with my QKT videos, which already contain info on how to do those things, albeit under a wider umbrella. For example, my cleaning tutorial shows how to do a teardown and some restoration. Others have small tutorials as well, and future ones will also show tutorial bits. Ideally I'd want that series to contain information or tutorials on pretty much anything you can do with a keyboard that I can help people with . As for fragile or hard-to-work-with parts, the NEC, Hi-Tek and beam spring reviews for example show you how to remove keycaps without damaging the switches.

I guess I could do dedicated, very small videos on each of these topics separately as well, if people would find that useful.

I donated about 20 USD to your cause through Paypal, keep it up!

Thanks man .

[E3E]

Good luck on your channel as a whole, man. It's always inspiring to see someone start from nothing and then slowly build into something.

I take someone from our community gaining a following like this as an inspiration more than anything. Really, if you are passionate and have a drive to do something there's nothing stopping you. I don't see anything wrong with having youtube as a second job or even a primary one.

Good luck, Chyros. I see nothing but a positive future and a lot of growth. Even if, say, your subscriber base doesn't blow up, you know there's always supplementing things with Patreon as well. I've seen people with only a few several thousand subscribers (as opposed to hundreds of thousands or millions) have a really strong following on Patreon.

Judging from what I notice both in comments on your videos, previous donations, and this funding campaign, you have a very potent and compassionate viewerbase and audience behind you.

[Wodan]

Since when has he ever been paid to do a review? Getting sent samples of products, within a reasonable quantity and for the purpose of reviewing, isn't the same as getting paid to do a review.

I don't mean to stirr up more trouble but this is a naive way of looking at it. It's just a very badly paid review.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en

What do we mean when we talk about paid product placements & endorsements?
Paid product placements may be described as pieces of content that are created for a third party in exchange for compensation, and/or where that third party's brand, message, or product is integrated directly into the content.

Endorsements may be described as pieces of content created for an advertiser or marketer that contain a message that consumers are likely to believe reflects the opinions, beliefs, or experiences of the content creator or endorser.

Please know that laws that apply to you may define paid product placements and endorsements differently. Creators and brands are responsible for understanding and fully complying with legal obligations to disclose Paid Promotion in their content according to their jurisdiction, including when and how to disclose and to whom to disclose.

I think this is a terrible trend, good Youtube channels getting "Free Samples" for review and fall into that trap. Companies and marketing agencies know very well what effect it has when a they sends in an amazing new product ... it's the 101 of modern marketing, send stuff to Youtubers and let them review it. Has an amazing "turnaround rate" and is dead cheap ... and many people will not even realize what is going on. Don't get fooled by this...

[y11971alex]

Since when has he ever been paid to do a review? Getting sent samples of products, within a reasonable quantity and for the purpose of reviewing, isn't the same as getting paid to do a review.

I don't mean to stirr up more trouble but this is a naive way of looking at it. It's just a very badly paid review.

A naive way of looking at things is better than a cynical way of looking at things, and I'll presently demonstrate that to you. An idealist can sometimes be more of a realist than a cynic.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en

What do we mean when we talk about paid product placements & endorsements?
Paid product placements may be described as pieces of content that are created for a third party in exchange for compensation, and/or where that third party's brand, message, or product is integrated directly into the content.

You're missing the word "paid" in Google's document. If you interpret this statement like this, you can't show anything on YouTube without its becoming a paid product placement, because virtually everything today is a manufactured good. I made an unboxing video involving a cardboard box made by U-line and a pair of scissors from IKEA, and by this definition you should define me as licking U-line's arse and sucking IKEA's balls. I made a keyboard showing how a beam spring switch works, and you should be calling me an IBM crony, right?

Endorsements may be described as pieces of content created for an advertiser or marketer that contain a message that consumers are likely to believe reflects the opinions, beliefs, or experiences of the content creator or endorser.

I think this is a terrible trend, good Youtube channels getting "Free Samples" for review and fall into that trap. Companies and marketing agencies know very well what effect it has when a they sends in an amazing new product ... it's the 101 of modern marketing, send stuff to Youtubers and let them review it. Has an amazing "turnaround rate" and is dead cheap ... and many people will not even realize what is going on. Don't get fooled by this...

This is sheer absurdity. Are you saying that of the 94 keyboard reviews that chyrosran22 has on his channel, each and every single one is a paid product placement? Do you even know what is a paid product placement? Typically one uses this term to describe something like this:

It's the cell phone that might be a paid product placement. It is not a paid product placement for the cardigan he's wearing, or the shirt, or the tie, or the waistcoat, or the hairdo, or the cobblestones under him, or the taxis behind him, or the city he is in...

With respect, and especially for your experience with keyboard matters, I can only say that your reading of Google's bulletin is unheard of. By the same logic, you're also, inadvertently, accusing everyone of us who send keyboards to chyrosran22 to be reviewed on his channel, of placing products on his channel.

[lancre]

Secretly Alps are still alive, making SKCM Blues, stirring-up the market and sending Chyros all the boards to review. He must have got to that Alps factory employee. How dare you Chyros.

XMIT is on the money. We come here to have good-natured keyboard chat.

Everyone have some Ovaltine and chill out.

[E3E]

Secretly Alps are still alive, making SKCM Blues, stirring-up the market and sending Chyros all the boards to review. He must have got to that Alps factory employee. How dare you Chyros.

XMIT is on the money. We come here to have good-natured keyboard chat.

Everyone have some Ovaltine and chill out.

I'm mean, Alps Electric is still alive as a company; they're just not making SKCM Blues or any other keyboard switches for that matter.

"You can't make Alps SKCM Blue...

If you don't exist."

[andrewjoy]

...
In fact, I think you should never watch any of my videos ever again. If they're so terrible and clearly not worth your time, why are you even in this topic making a big fuss out of absolutely nothing?

Some of the are actuall great to watch and give me a great impression of a nice keyboard.

In fact, I think you should stop making videos - especially paid ones - if you have issues with people calling you out on shady reviews and unproven claims. And my tolerances for that are even lower when you do it as a job ...

And yeah thanks for the generic "Youtuber gone commercial" speech ...

I will keep my criticism as objective as I can. If you keep your claims as proven as you can, we might never clash again.

I provided a review sample to chyros , i bribed him with harribo tangfastics and rich tea biscuits !


But come on , i mean people do this for a living now , access to tech or whatever to review is just part of the job its not a bribe for a good review. As for paid reviews you do have to be careful with that but as long as its disclosed clearly in the video ( the video description is not enough) then i don't have a problem with it.

People say the same in game reviews, oh you get free games so you will say x and for anyone who does this professionally all a free game means is more work.

[Chyros]

...
In fact, I think you should never watch any of my videos ever again. If they're so terrible and clearly not worth your time, why are you even in this topic making a big fuss out of absolutely nothing?

Some of the are actuall great to watch and give me a great impression of a nice keyboard.

In fact, I think you should stop making videos - especially paid ones - if you have issues with people calling you out on shady reviews and unproven claims. And my tolerances for that are even lower when you do it as a job ...

And yeah thanks for the generic "Youtuber gone commercial" speech ...

I will keep my criticism as objective as I can. If you keep your claims as proven as you can, we might never clash again.

I provided a review sample to chyros , i bribed him with harribo tangfastics and rich tea biscuits !

I just wanted to say I laughed out really loud at that xD .

Besides, why would I do biased reviews? What on earth would I stand to gain by them? :p

[davkol]

But come on , i mean people do this for a living now , access to tech or whatever to review is just part of the job its not a bribe for a good review.

Bias coming from free review samples is a very real topic, hot esp. in audio.

A part of this is subconscious bias (free stuff) and effect of price on weighing flaws (if the reviewer doesn't pay for the product, they perceive it differently then if their hard-earned money were involved), another part is fear of getting blacklisted by the vendor (this is common in mobile or audio markets and I've heard of it with keyboards too).

[TyGuy83]

Hey Chyros,

I was really saddened to read through this thread and find some people complaining so much about your GoFundMe campaign. It's like what others have already said, the content is free to watch and it takes up a ton of time to produce these things.

Don't let a vocal minority get you down and honestly It's really nice of you to even come in the thread and respond to them at all. The thing to remember is if you love what you're doing it's going to be great content (which it is) and it will find an audience. Leave the whiners behind you and just forge ahead with greatness.

The saddest part is that usually people who complain about things like this have very little ground to stand on and their opinion comes from jealousy, envy or self loathing.

Cheers.

[davkol]

A white knight comes…

The saddest part is that usually people who complain about things like this have very little ground to stand on and their opinion comes from jealousy, envy or self loathing.

Not sure if trolling or stupid.

[Wodan]

A part of this is subconscious bias (free stuff) and effect of price on weighing flaws (if the reviewer doesn't pay for the product, they perceive it differently then if their hard-earned money were involved), another part is fear of getting blacklisted by the vendor (this is common in mobile or audio markets and I've heard of it with keyboards too).

100% my perception of this trend ...

The internet is full of howto-guides for getting free stuff sent in by companies. Some Youtube channels are even created with the intention of getting free stuff sent in after reaching a certain significance. I am not saying this is the case with Chyros channel, I am saying this _IS_ a big motivation for MANY Youtube content creators and it is not crazy to claim Chyros has been ACTIVELY looking for free samples.

Just giving you a few examples of things Chyros said a while ago encouraging companies to send him keyboards:
keyboards-f2/getting-a-topre-for-gaming ... ml#p307139

...Which is why I wish Topre would send me a Realforce 104, because I think I'd actually have a lot of good things to say about it xD .

product-news-f44/razer-ornata-a-clicky- ... ml#p327535

...
Man, if Razer send me one of these.... xD

product-news-f44/wooting-keyboard-with- ... ml#p309350

...
I'd really like to give this board a go and do a review on it, but it's 'spensive D: .

And then this show ... a Logitech sales rep shows up on GH and Chyros - who later admitted the keyboards he got from Toms Hardware for review were his first ever modern/gaming keyboards - is over the thread like the designated expert for modern gaming keyboards, mentioning his involvment with Toms Hardware THREE times before realizing the Logitech sales rep is gone ...
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86880.0;all

Here's the other quote about his modern/gaming keyboard background for reference:

...
I do have some modern boards, but they're Tom's Hardware's, and I'm not allowed to review them on my channel for obvious legal reasons. I'll pass on my address when I'm done moving .

Not sure if I am the only one who is tickled the wrong way by this development. And I wasn't even going to make a big deal out of it ... Chyros is finally getting what he has been working hard for. I did my best calling out what I consider a shill/biased review when I saw one but didn't go overboard:
review-f45/matias-tactile-pro-4-review- ... 15203.html

But then turning back to the community to get funds for your recently gone commercial channel is just something I will not leave uncommented. I have been trying to make this not a personal thing. Look above you will find sources/quotes to explain my sentiments and impressions. I have no problem with people making fun of me for not approving this trend, I'd appreciate it if people with a different opinion could holster the personal insults.

[kbdfr]

A pity that (not being interested in HD) I did not look into this thread before,
and so missed adding my own personal rant

Meanwhile, how about moving this thread to the "Vendors" section?

[andrewjoy]

And then this show ... a Logitech sales rep shows up on GH and Chyros - who later admitted the keyboards he got from Toms Hardware for review were his first ever modern/gaming keyboards - is over the thread like the designated expert for modern gaming keyboards, mentioning his involvment with Toms Hardware THREE times before realizing the Logitech sales rep is gone ...

What you fail to mention however is that in most of the posts he is calling out logitech on talking bullshit about 1000htz polling and marketing crap.

Another was about using a force gauge when he reviews keyboards ( Using a force gauge makes you a clear shill )

Deliberate misrepresentation , you must work for CNN

[y11971alex]

And then this show ... a Logitech sales rep shows up on GH and Chyros - who later admitted the keyboards he got from Toms Hardware for review were his first ever modern/gaming keyboards - is over the thread like the designated expert for modern gaming keyboards, mentioning his involvment with Toms Hardware THREE times before realizing the Logitech sales rep is gone ...

What you fail to mention however is that in most of the posts he is calling out logitech on talking bullshit about 1000htz polling and marketing crap.

Another was about using a force gauge when he reviews keyboards ( Using a force gauge makes you a clear shill )

Deliberate misrepresentation , you must work for CNN

Andy, when you sent over your 3278 for review late last year, you did secretly receive a huge amount of money from IBM at your Swiss bank account, right?