Why do so many people love heavier switches?

[ulises3.14]

A lot of people here, and other keyboard aficionados communities, seem to prefer heavier switches: black cherries over reds, clears over browns; and one the most consistent criticism I found of the "cheap" Plum capacitive keyboards is that they aren't as heavy as Topres.

I type a lot by trade and hobby, and was a very proficient hunt and pecker, but now I'm learning to touch type; modern ANSI or ISO qwerty layouts are very heavy on the pinkies for touch typist, so a lighter actuation point seems like a plus to me, but I just have three boards and less than a year since I bought my first mechanical keyboard (actually second, the first was an Olivetti that was attached to the family computer in the late 80's early 90's but the only thing left of that board is a nice memory) So maybe I'm missing something. Is there any reason why most forum members seem to like heavier switches?

[Orpheo]

Do you rest your palm when you tough type or do your type with your hands floating in the air like typewriter typists used to do? The latter is the proper technique and will prevent tensions in the wrists and hands the first induces.
Typing hands in the air will provide some force momentum to your fingers thus the higher actuation force required for a springing force return that help not bottoming out (creating more shocks to your hands bones) , and increasing your speed. That's my reasons anyways.

[whm1974]

Do you rest your palm when you tough type or do your type with your hands floating in the air like typewriter typists used to do? The latter is the proper technique and will prevent tensions in the wrists and hands the first induces.
Typing hands in the air will provide some force momentum to your fingers thus the higher actuation force required for a springing force return that help not bottoming out (creating more shocks to your hands bones) , and increasing your speed. That's my reasons anyways.

Speaking of typing with your hands in the air, I've been forcing myself to that for almost a month now. I laid my previous keyboard flat after I started having pains in the back of my hands and that relieved me of that pain. My new keyboard laying flat is higher then normal boards which is almost making me keep my hands in the air when I type.

However my new board has Cherry Blue clone switches and they are lighter then my older board, which I like.

[Wodan]

Most people that use MX Blacks or MX Clears I know have actually done some modding to the actual switches.
Putting a lighter spring in a nice, vintage MX Black switch is probably the most popular switch mod.

[seebart]

A lot of people here, and other keyboard aficionados communities, seem to prefer heavier switches: black cherries over reds, clears over browns; and one the most consistent criticism I found of the "cheap" Plum capacitive keyboards is that they aren't as heavy as Topres.

I don't believe that's true at all.45-50g keyweight is perfect for me, I am not comfortable typing longer on heavier switches. My personal experience is that less keyweight (with some feedback) will force me to type better and pay more attention or rather overcome my "bad typing habits". I don't know "cheap" Plum capacitive keyboards but I'd love to try one. I don't think you are missing anything since I don't believe that most forum members seem to like heavier switches.

Most people that use MX Blacks or MX Clears I know have actually done some modding to the actual switches.Putting a lighter spring in a nice, vintage MX Black switch is probably the most popular switch mod.

Of course there are other switches than Cherry MX Wodan.

[Findecanor]

For years, I have been saying it but people don't seem to understand: MX Clears are not heavy if you type on them the right way!
The Clear switch encourages you to not press it very far, thus resulting in not expending too much force per key.

Meanwhile, I see people on Cherry MX Blue and Brown - and especially - Red, that bottom out very often.
The Topre switches are almost impossible not to bottom out, and while the 45g Topre are rated at the same actuation force as Cherry MX Blue/Brown/Red, I find them to be much more fatiguing.

[need]

For years, I have been saying it but people don't seem to understand: MX Clears are not heavy if you type on them the right way!
The Clear switch encourages you to not press it very far, thus resulting in not expending too much force per key.

Meanwhile, I see people on Cherry MX Blue and Brown - and especially - Red, that bottom out very often.
The Topre switches are almost impossible not to bottom out, and while the 45g Topre are rated at the same actuation force as Cherry MX Blue/Brown/Red, I find them to be much more fatiguing.

Although I can float on MX clears, they still feel too stiff just to actuate. The top portion of travel is still pretty heavy compared to others.

[HAL]

Before I came here and started trying other keyboards I exclusively used IBM Model M keyboards for about the last 20 years. After that everything else seemes to be to light. I would love a Topre Realforce with maybe 65g or a Gateron Green with maybe 65g of actuation force.

[Laser]

This resembles philosophy so well ... because, of course, we keep forgetting we all have different hands.

[ulises3.14]

Most people that use MX Blacks or MX Clears I know have actually done some modding to the actual switches.
Putting a lighter spring in a nice, vintage MX Black switch is probably the most popular switch mod.

So, weight is no the only thing that sets them apart from their more common counterparts?

[ulises3.14]

This resembles philosophy so well ... because, of course, we keep forgetting we all have different hands.

Not only different hands but also different typing habits and preferences, but still some switches seem to be highly regarded among the community, and (in my opinion) those tend to be on the heavier side.

[Laser]

Yes, typing habits and preferences certainly also count - knowing or not to touch type, being exposed to a certain keyboard etc.

Regarding heavy switches - it can be something similar to the "MX Browns anti-hype" - many people here say they can't stand them, but the switches are very very popular otherwise (i.e. they sell very well). So sometimes the most vocal people are not 'representative' in the sense that they would speak for a majority. If something just works, one tends to just not mention it so very often.

[davkol]

MX Black, for example, isn't heavy. Cherry themselves call it "medium" stiffness (or whatever). It takes 60 cN to actuate, which is on par with many common mechanisms, or even slightly softer. Similar with MX Clear (~65 cN peak before actuation). Your run-of-the-mill rubber dome? Most likely 60-65 cN. Tactile Matias switches? Their predecessors from AEKII? Very similar. And so on.

Buckling springs (and many other older designs) are heavier. So are many of their copies (say, SKCM White, or more recently MX Green). I'd assume that and the clicky noise is a typewriter legacy.

[evoman]

I like heavier switches (to a limit) and perhaps that is because I am not a touch typist. I am a fairly proficient hunt and peck typist (if you can call it that when you don't really look at the keyboard, but still only use two or three fingers per hand do type - so no pinkie typing, which probably helps manage heavier switches).

I assume this is why Topre make the variable weighted boards - you get heavier switches where you have a lot of force, but very light switches for the pinkie positions (seems like overkill to me)

[pixelheresy]

Personally, I think it comes down to people's style. I like a little stiffer, but not sure I'd be keen on Clears (then again, I hate Browns). Simply can't form an opinion on that, since I have only played with clears on a tester or on a spacebar.

As for Blacks vs Reds, I actually kind of like Blacks. I can get in the groove and not have to bottom out on the alphanumeric keys and still actuate well, even without a bump or click. Medium-to-high tension switches, basically allow you to get all the action you need without a big clack of bottoming out. Typing-style-wise, I generally type relatively lightly, which seems to be more than enough to actuate, but if I generally don't bottom out or just barely. O-rings help on my daily driver (which have blues), but even prior to that, I would land rather soft on letter keys and only *clack* with space, return, tab, backspace, etc. Reds just feel like bottom-out city.

Would I personally be comfortable with heavy heavy switches? Not sure. I have a Gateron Blue switch board at home, which seems a little stiffer and clickier than MX blues, but anything more would probably get a little annoying... just personally.

[Scottex]

Most people that use MX Blacks or MX Clears I know have actually done some modding to the actual switches.
Putting a lighter spring in a nice, vintage MX Black switch is probably the most popular switch mod.

Guilty of doing this.
I like my clicky switches heavy tho

[davkol]

On a different note, it's important to consider what people do outside the keyboard hobby. If they do manual labor or, say, climb, they're gonna have much stronger hands than us office monkeys.

[zslane]

True dat.

I have wimpy computer nerd hands, and 45cN is the limit of what is comfortable for me. Even 50cN might be pushing it for long stretches of continuous typing. However, anything 40cN or less is too light, and I end up make too many typing mistakes. So the goldilocks zone for me is 45cN.

However, I can easily see how someone with stronger fingers would have a goldilocks zone in the 60-70cN range.

[Laser]

Also, if one has to type "continuously" when a deadline is close, let's say just once a week, for a few hours in a row, say an article for a column (see the double, matrix-like, pun I made?) it's one thing and any heavy switch can become punishing to the fingers. While if one just has to type "casually" as a rule (even if overall there is a lot of typing), a heavier switch could be easier to bear. Of course, the background of what hands one has still remains

[davkol]

Professional typists on typewriters (back when there were many more professional typists) had to deal with stiffer keys and typed all the time. It's really the occasional peak of a rather untrained user, that's the bane here, I suspect.

[Laser]

Well, if you have to type for N hours every day, surely you develop some strong fingers and hands. In this case, I'd rather say that everybody else (i.e. the majority) fits the "untrained user" category pretty well

[zslane]

Professional typists on typewriters (back when there were many more professional typists) had to deal with stiffer keys and typed all the time. It's really the occasional peak of a rather untrained user, that's the bane here, I suspect.

The amount of pressure required to activate a key on my IBM Selectric II is shockingly little. For decades, professional typists were typing on Selectrics, so I gotta figure they were accustomed to keys that required a very light touch.

[davkol]

Lower force requirements were indeed the driving force behind adoption of electric typewriters in the 1960s, and IBM Selectric supposedly gained majority of (US! not global) market in the end, but it was barely decades (well, two or so at most).

That said, my Selectric III didn't leave me with the impression of low-force keystrokes (compared to modern switches).

[webwit]

In the prehistory of the mechanical keyboard Renaissance, the late noughties, this was a recurring theme. People liked IBM Model M and Model F, but what if you got something like that with the actuation of Cherry MX Blue? This was the quest for the Holy Grail of tactile, clicky keyboards. And although it was not buckling spring, it was found and it even better. The beamspring keyboard. Which is the basically the computer keyboard version of the IBM Selectric.

[Laser]

In the prehistory of the mechanical keyboard Renaissance, the late noughties, this was a recurring theme. People liked IBM Model M and Model F, but what if you got something like that with the actuation of Cherry MX Blue? This was the quest for the Holy Grail of tactile, clicky keyboards. And although it was not buckling spring, it was found and it even better. The beamspring keyboard. Which is the basically the computer keyboard version of the IBM Selectric.

Could you convince Chyros to loudly recite this paragraph? Beamspring Genesis, Book 1!
(actually, I'm pretty serious)

[zslane]

That said, my Selectric III didn't leave me with the impression of low-force keystrokes (compared to modern switches).

Interesting. IBM must have made some significant design changes between the II and the III. You barely have to touch a key on my Selectric II and you get a character on the page.

I have a theory that for computer users, the lag between keypress and the sound of the type element hitting the platen is disconcerting, and leads to a subconscious belief that they aren't hitting the keys hard enough. It is as if the brain is still applying manual typewriter expectations to the electro-mechanical system of the Selectric, and thinking that hitting the keys harder will produce faster element response, when all that will do is increase fatigue and simultaneously implant the notion that the system requires a heavier touch.

But it's just a theory.

[Orpheo]

Love typewriters!
As for the original question, I guess you have to try a lot and work your typing hard to really understand what kind of switch/keyboard you like.
A casual gamers would certainly waste his time in this perfect switch quest if he only write a post or two a day

[davkol]

Or you can adjust to switches. I exercised a bit to make my hands stronger, when switching from MX Red to MX Clear. It's been totally worth it.

[belowgeek]

I guess some people prefer heavy switches because they just press down on a key heavily. I asked my friend who uses a Steelseries keyboard with MX Black switches and he said that the switch suits his style perfectly.

[niomosy]

Lighter switches are definitely preferred for me. When I was initially testing all the switch types out, I tried typing on some MX blacks for a while and found my arms tire out far more quickly than typing on reds. Ended up buying a board with MX reds and continue to be very pleased with it.

Now if that hall effect board would show up, I'll finally be able to test that out and see how I like it with the 50g springs.