F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Check out today's ExtremeTech, Tom's Hardware, and Tech Report articles on the Model F Project! All are great at concisely explaining the project / the Model F keyboard.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... ear-hiatus

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/model- ... 34954.html

http://techreport.com/news/32206/model- ... ern-reboot

Yes if someone wants to track interest in black legends on lighter black PBT we'd need 20 sets to proceed but I'd be up for it as a lower priority add on set only.

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[Ludovician]

I'd be interested in black on black.

[Xovaan]

I'd definitely be interested in black with black text instead of pure black blanks, much like my Realforce

[duncancmt]

Yes if someone wants to track interest in black legends on lighter black PBT we'd need 20 sets to proceed but I'd be up for it as a lower priority add on set only.

I posted a thread to gauge interest in black-on-black keycaps. If you're interested, post there and I'll add you to the table.

[Elrick]

I'd be interested in black on black.

Much prefer Black on White, just like in real life .

[tiimoto]

Ellipse, congrats on the exposure! No doubt it will lead to more sales
What are you planning to do with all the infrastructure you have obtained after the Group Buy? E.g. (factory)contacts, custom tooling and time spent setting all this up?

EDIT: adjusted phrasing.

[evoman]

Who the hell uses a numpad anyway.

People who do a lot of data entry and calculations. I rarely use it, but when I need to enter large sets of data it is far too slow to use the number row. I have started to really like TKL models, so I am going to probably just order a number pad and set up my F77 like a TKL. But i really like the fact that the layout is flexible and I can swap that around if I find I really need the number pad.

I also see the discussion of keycap colours - my main concern is contrast. I am writing this on a white on black, with very clear legends, and at work I usually use black on white/beige. Both are basically the same in terms of usability, and I am all about maximising utility!

[Medoclou]

Just found out about this awesome project!
There is only really one thing that bothers me: that the controller does not use USB-C.
I know that one could always buy a cable from Micro-USB to USB-C, but given the longevity of this keyboard, why not future-proof it all the way?

Since the controllers have already been produced, I (and probably some more users) wouldn't mind paying the extra-cost for a full USB-C version.

[wobbled]

Just found out about this awesome project!
There is only really one thing that bothers me: that the controller does not use USB-C.
I know that one could always buy a cable from Micro-USB to USB-C, but given the longevity of this keyboard, why not future-proof it all the way?

Since the controllers have already been produced, I (and probably some more users) wouldn't mind paying the extra-cost for a full USB-C version.

Agree with this 100%

[j0d1]

I don't want to speak for Ellipse but:

1. Micro-USB will still be in use for a very long time.
2. USB-C on the other hand is new and not available on every machine.
3. In the future, because Micro-USB is 100% compatible with USB-C, a simple adapter will suffice.

[Ellipse]

j0d1 I agree. Even a small change like USB C would increase costs by thousands across 1,000 keyboards. Given tooling costs it is not feasible to make some controllers one way and others another way. Instead I focused on using the highest quality materials: e.g. a high quality zinc alloy for the cases (even IBM used something like "pot metal" for some Model F 4704 cases).

[wobbled]

j0d1 I agree. Even a small change like USB C would increase costs by thousands across 1,000 keyboards. Given tooling costs it is not feasible to make some controllers one way and others another way. Instead I focused on using the highest quality materials: e.g. a high quality zinc alloy for the cases (even IBM used something like "pot metal" for some Model F 4704 cases).

Will the usb connector on the xwhatsit controller be more durable than the current xhwatsits? As you already know, I've managed to snap one off and it didn't take much doing at all.

[Ellipse]

They should be about equal durability. Each die cast zinc case will have a strain relief C clamp like the originals to minimize the chances of damage. The compact cases have a thick rectangular area surrounding the micro USB connector so that the micro USB end will not be able to move much.

You bring up a good point though - it may be a good idea to pick up an extra controller before production ends, just in case.

[duncancmt]

I would like to update the black-on-black caps IC thread with a bit more information:

• Assuming that the MOQ is met, what does the price look like for a set of custom colored keycaps? Will it be much higher than the price of a set of the standard colored caps?
• Will all the legends available for the standard keycaps be available for custom colored ones? (HHKB layout keys, front printed F-keys, and/or right block options)

[Shihatsu]

What is also needed are the supported layouts - I,for example, am ISO-DE...

[Ellipse]

Today the project is on the home page of Slashdot! The traffic brought down the site for a bit but now it is back up and running. https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/ ... f-keyboard

duncan I am not sure on the pricing. For now let's say it will be a little more than the unprinted black, probably $10 more.

Yes all the legends and international key sets would be available in light black printed sets.

[Ellipse]

The spring-flipper attacher machine is finished! The factory did a great job designing and building this machine.

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[directheatedtriode]

Ellipse- sorry if this is a question you get asked often - will this be a limited edition, ie once the final run is completed this project is done for good or are there plans to continue production or have someone else take over?

The reason I ask is twofold, one as a fan of the Model M (growing up my friend's dad was in clustering at IBM and they had plenty of them at their house, can't remember if they had any F I just knew I loved the way they felt) it would be nice to own a true limited edition item. Second is I could probably stretch myself to pay for one soon, but after buying so much stuff recently knowing I have a bit of time would help with the finances.

Thanks.

[Ellipse]

Yes you will have some time to order later - we are only in the early bird round right now.

You are right that they are limited to the early bird and final round. I might make some extras to sell at $150 or $200 more after the final round to recover some cost overruns - for those who miss the deadline.

I do hope you join in on the project!

[joel]

Ellipse, quick question: I picked international layout for my keys and it says on the ordering page that I need to specify which International layout I want on the checkout page. I'm looking at the checkout page right now however, and I don't see any options for this. I want Swedish layout.

[Ellipse]

Great joel, you can just type in a note in the Notes section for Swedish layout. Sorry, it is the product page, not the checkout page where you can add the note.

[wobbled]

Joe what was the main reason you decided not to include the function row in these boards?
Was it to stay true to the original design, or is it because it exists through different layers? Or any other reasons?

[Ellipse]

Yes the goal of the project was a 60% / 75% board to match the originals - perfect, working reproductions with new USB native programmable controllers. You can access function keys through the secondary layer.

[Ir0n]

This project was talked about on a channel I watch often. https://youtu.be/dMfYuChi0Wg?t=3619

[Ellipse]

Thanks for letting me know!

[wobbled]

Oh Damn Wendell and Twindell love your boards! You've basically just won at life

[Ellipse]

Production update:

I continue using and testing the new Model F's and we are very close to getting the right amount of the musical reverb when typing! Even with some of the components not yet 100%.

I received the latest shipment today from the factory, including two Industrial Gray production cases and sample keys and springs.

The factory did a great job on the Industrial Gray cases. They are the correct mix of gray, green, and tan that is a cross between the greenish-tan-gray Industrial SSK and the more greenish full size Industrial M's. Nice bumpy texture and matte paint.

The latest spring samples do not match my tolerances and specifications and they have been rejected. At this point I expect to work with one of the US spring factories I've received a quote from in the past month or so (after evaluating their samples first of course). I have to absorb the costs here but it looks like everyone is expected to get US made buckling springs!

The latest keys have excellent PBT like the originals, but failed to match the tolerances and I am talking with the factory about options and next steps. May have to switch subcontractors on this part as I mentioned before; we don't want to wait forever for these sub's to improve!

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[HitMan009]

By you documenting all the steps being taken and all the trials and tribulations, I wonder what it was like back when IBM was designing this keyboard. I mean they were defining all the tolerances for each piece. You are trying to match their tolerances to the T but I always wondered how they arrived at their specs. The tools for automation now must be surely be vastly superior to how it was over 30 years ago. It would be great if we had someone on the original IBM team who designed this line of keyboards and explain what they did and compare it to all that you have done.

Congrats and thanks for what you are doing..... I surely await the arrival of this keyboard and to add it my trusty model F AT keyboard as part of my rotation.

[Ellipse]

While we wait on the factory, I was wondering if we could discuss:

Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard? What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?

[evoman]

While we wait on the factory, I was wondering if we could discuss:

Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard? What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?

If it's what I hope it is (a replacement for my Model M that displaces my Topre keyboards) then it will sit in the middle of my desk at work. I do a lot of writing and a bit of random stuff (coding, data manipulation, mathematics). No gaming whatsoever. Most of my interest is driven by feel while writing (mostly about fast and furious typing when needed).