Y'all might hate me, but here's my problem ...

[hellothere]

First, note that my keyboard hobby is not collecting. It's repairing broken keyboards. Second, I have two computers, so I told myself, "OK. Four keyboards is a max. Two daily-drivers. Two spares." Hey, I originally said three was my max.

ATM, my favorites are ...

A Chicony (IIRC) branded pine white Alps keyboard.
An almost perfect Wang 724/725 with salmon Alps.
Two Apple Standard keyboards with orange Alps.
Two Chicony branded SMK 2nd generation "Montery" blue keyboards. Just got them in, but they feel very nice.
Several Apple Extended Keyboard IIs with cream damped switches.
A Kailh box Jade thick click keyboard I customized.

I also have several Model Ms. Those have been dropped from my favorites list because I like Alps more than my Ms. I really like Model Ms, so that gives you some idea of how I feel about the other keyboards.

I committed partial heresy over the past couple weeks: I bought an old AEK II shell and put the switches from the orange Alps keyboards in it. I'm typing on it now. I feel and hear a couple problems, but it's still really nice.

A couple weeks ago, I found a really cheap "has Alps switches" AEK II from a seller I've bought from before. My thought was that I might swap the cream switches with my white switches, as the white switches are great, but the Chicony case is ugly. So, I bought the AEKII sight unseen. I even forgotten that I had ordered it: it was shipped via USPS on Dec 5. It came in today. Salmon Alps. No dirt. Probably no rust (I need to remove the keycaps). No sticking. No binding. Somewhat yellowed, as most AEKs are. So, basically perfect.

Aaaaiiiighhh. So, what should I keep to bring the number down to four?

EDIT: keycaps off. Mounting plate looks factory new.

[iljitsch]

That must be one hell of a KVM switch you've got set up there. (Well, a reverse KVM switch.)

[webwit]

Welcome to Keyboard Collectors Anonymous, a worldwide fellowship of men and women who help each other to buy less keyboards. This is a closed meeting, you are welcome to stay if you have a desire to quit buying keyboards. If you have bought a keyboard in the last 24 hours, we ask that you only listen during the meeting. For your healing, the first step is to no longer deny your problem and introduce yourself as "Hi, I'm hellothere (example), and a keyboard collector".

[hellothere]

Nooooo! I don't want to collect!

I have approximately 20 keyboards, ATM. Several are listed on this forum for sale. The rest are in various stages of being repaired.

[webwit]

"OK. Four keyboards is a max. Two daily-drivers. Two spares." Hey, I originally said three was my max.

I have approximately 20 keyboards, ATM.

Tell us about your father. Was he also a keyboard collector?

[fohat]

Salmon Alps. No dirt. Probably no rust (I need to remove the keycaps). No sticking. No binding.

I would (and I have, in similar situations) transplant those switches into a Northgate Omnikey 101 or a Dell AT101W case.

[digital_matthew]

You don't need fewer keyboards, you need more computers.

[hellothere]

I have a SGI bigfoot case/board/mounting plate that's practically identical to a Dell AT101W case, but the PCB has a lot of lifted pads and the mounting plate needs to be sanded, so I've put off trying to repair it. I've not specifically looked for a Northgate case. I've only found full keyboards. I might also be subconsciously suppressing searching for Northgate keyboards because I had a bad experience with Northgate Bob.

I have a few reasons why I like the AEK II:

* Big enough to put a Teensy in to convert to USB, if I can ever get a Pro Micro to work properly, that is. I've only had success with IBMs.
* There's a notch on the right side of the keyboard, under the ADB connector, that's almost the perfect size for a micro USB cable.
* Three modifier keys to both the left and right of the spacebar.
* The Mac command key maps to the Windows key automagically.
* One of my two computers is a Mac, so I don't have to go remapping a bunch of keys if I trade off keyboards between machines.
* PBT keycaps.

I know that some folks will say that the keycap font is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiideous, but I really don't mind it. It'd be nice if the F keys didn't have the rotated 90 degree stems, though, so it'd be easier to get spares.

[hellothere]

You don't need fewer keyboards, you need more computers.

Oooh. That's a separate discussion .

I build a new one every five or so years. I'm not a gamer.

[Rayndalf]

Only 4 keyboards? That's crazy but also totally reasonable. I have countless boards at this point, but the only one I actually use is a battered Kinesis Advantage.

It feels hypocritical to collect boards I know I won't find comfortable, but I don't think I'll be stopping anytime soon

I have like 6 variants of the G80-1800. I guess I just think they're cute. Small enough to fit anywhere, but still have adjustable feet and a nice bezel.

[TNT]

If you insist on bringing the number down, try to create a ranking of the boards you have + list the modifications/configurations you want them to have (ge. 1. Northgate Omnikey with SKCM Green and RGB backlighting, 2. Smith-Corona Leaf Spring with solenoid etc.). Then proceed to sell/trade the boards which are below position 4 and get all the stuff you need for your must-have boards.

Or you could decide to step the number up to 6 or 8, even keep all of them and admit that you are addicted, just like the rest of us

All jokes aside, a reasonable thing to do would be to sell duplicate boards and keep the nicest one each time.

Hapy Chrimsmon everyone!

[Scarpia]

First of all, if you’re going to keep just four, don’t care what others think of your choices; in particular, don’t keep a board you don’t love just because it’s valuable or rare or is in mint condition.

Second, you probably already have two favorites that you should definitely keep — it’s easy to spot them because they’re connected and sitting on your desks right now whatever two boards you usually end up using as your daily drivers need to stay.

Third and my last advice is, consider keeping at least one tactile quiet board, in case you find yourself sharing an office space with someone who doesn’t enjoy a loud clicky keyboard.

[Polecat]

I have a SGI bigfoot case/board/mounting plate that's practically identical to a Dell AT101W case, but the PCB has a lot of lifted pads and the mounting plate needs to be sanded, so I've put off trying to repair it. I've not specifically looked for a Northgate case. I've only found full keyboards. I might also be subconsciously suppressing searching for Northgate keyboards because I had a bad experience with Northgate Bob.

I have a few reasons why I like the AEK II:

* Big enough to put a Teensy in to convert to USB, if I can ever get a Pro Micro to work properly, that is. I've only had success with IBMs.
* There's a notch on the right side of the keyboard, under the ADB connector, that's almost the perfect size for a micro USB cable.
* Three modifier keys to both the left and right of the spacebar.
* The Mac command key maps to the Windows key automagically.
* One of my two computers is a Mac, so I don't have to go remapping a bunch of keys if I trade off keyboards between machines.
* PBT keycaps.

I know that some folks will say that the keycap font is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiideous, but I really don't mind it. It'd be nice if the F keys didn't have the rotated 90 degree stems, though, so it'd be easier to get spares.

You can kill two or three birds by getting a Northgate OmniMac Ultra. That's a Gen2 Northgate with the Ultra layout and ADB interface. Those have 8 dipswitches like a normal Gen2 Omnikey, but Mac isn't on the list of choices for the standard Omnikeys, despite some of them having the ADB connections. So the OmniMac probably has a special controller. In other words you probably can't just flip switches to convert back and forth from ADB to PS/2. I have one here (plus a rebranded Cutting Edge Northgate which I believe is also Mac) so I can compare internals. That's on my project list in fact, assuming my Mac IIsi still works for testing ADB. The OmniMac has the Mac-style slanted font on the caps (attached, not my photo), and no rotated stems, so will take normal Alps caps.

[Reshala]

OK, IMO if collecting isn't causing your life a problem, why set an inflexible limit? But if you really want to keep the number low, maybe try to sell the ones the least likely to be used?

[hellothere]

Thanks for all the advice, folks! Let me try to respond to some:

> If you insist on bringing the number down, try to create a ranking of the boards you have + list the modifications/configurations you want them to have (ge. 1. Northgate Omnikey with SKCM Green and RGB backlighting, 2. Smith-Corona Leaf Spring with solenoid etc.). Then proceed to sell/trade the boards which are below position 4 and get all the stuff you need for your must-have boards.
> Only 4 keyboards? That's crazy but also totally reasonable.
First, the obvious EWWW for the Smith-Corona. Second, trying to figure out 4 positions is why I posted this thread . I definitely have a bunch of keebs that are non-keepers. Those are easy for me to identify.

> don’t keep a board you don’t love just because it’s valuable
I'm really not. I know that I could probably get over $250 US for the salmon Wang 724 and maybe around $200 for either the orange or salmon AEKs, based on ebay data. That AEK with salmon is soo minty, except for some retr0bright needed.

> or rare or is in mint condition.
I have three keyboards that are objectively rare. As in, the wiki says they're rare, although not necessarily valuable. I won't keep any of those because I realized a couple months ago that I don't care for linear switches. All need repair and conversion to QMK, so it might be a while before they see the light of day again. I've also still got three or four Model Ms that need various repairs and a number of keyboards that will be in mint-like condition after some judicious retr0brighting. I really have only one keyboard that needs absolutely nothing, ATM: the Wang 724.

> You can kill two or three birds by getting a Northgate OmniMac Ultra. That's a Gen2 Northgate with the Ultra layout and ADB interface.
I had a fun Google tour regarding that. Looks like it has a PS/2 and an ADB port on the back. However, a couple of folks made the suggestion that the PS/2 port isn't so you could connect the keeb to a PC, but so you could connect a PS/2 mouse. I could see that being the case. Anyway, it also looks like these are not exactly easy to find.

FWIW, the adapter I currently have for ADB to USB, a Drakware pre-built, works well and looks good, too. (BTW, for the Omnimac, here are the DIP switch settings. It also took me a couple min to figure out that was an * keycap above the ctrl key and not a smashed bug.)

FWIW II, I've used "PC" keyboards on my Macs for years. As said, using a Mac keyboard on a PC is easy, as the Command key automagically maps to the Windows key. Using that PC keyboard on a Mac is different. You have to play around with mapping the ALT and CTRL keys in the control panel. I don't recall ever having two "PC" keyboards, at least ones that use PS/2 or DIN 5 adapters, use the same mapping.

> if collecting isn't causing your life a problem, why set an inflexible limit?
Good question. It actually does cause two problems: I don't have the storage space and if I don't sell stuff, I can't buy stuff. Say I have 20 keyboards and sell each for around $100. $2000 is about enough to buy a Beamspring. If I'm really lucky, I might be able to get a Beamspring (couple sold in the $1500 range, recently) AND an Alps plate spring (the current keeb I'd like to try; I've seen a couple here in the $300 range).

=============

Since posting the above regarding my SGI "shell," I'm relatively sure that I've fixed the continuity problems and lifted pads. I still have to sand down the mount plate, which I may get to today or next weekend.

[JP!]

Just don't go too far off the deep end. 100+ keyboards is not pretty. I have a lot of favorites but obviously could let go of a few.

[Polecat]

I had a fun Google tour regarding that. Looks like it has a PS/2 and an ADB port on the back. However, a couple of folks made the suggestion that the PS/2 port isn't so you could connect the keeb to a PC, but so you could connect a PS/2 mouse. I could see that being the case. Anyway, it also looks like these are not exactly easy to find.

FWIW, the adapter I currently have for ADB to USB, a Drakware pre-built, works well and looks good, too. (BTW, for the Omnimac, here are the DIP switch settings. It also took me a couple min to figure out that was an * keycap above the ctrl key and not a smashed bug.)

FWIW II, I've used "PC" keyboards on my Macs for years. As said, using a Mac keyboard on a PC is easy, as the Command key automagically maps to the Windows key. Using that PC keyboard on a Mac is different. You have to play around with mapping the ALT and CTRL keys in the control panel. I don't recall ever having two "PC" keyboards, at least ones that use PS/2 or DIN 5 adapters, use the same mapping.

Thanks for the OmniMac switch setting link. An old switch photo I saved shows 1 and 3 down, and the rest up. 8 might have been for a layout choice or something. I used a Mac IIsi for desktop publishing back in the '90s, and I was already an Alps fan, so the OmniMac(s) were intended to be part of that setup. But I found some ADB Datacomps with white Alps which I ended up using instead. The guy who gave me one of the OmniMacs decades ago told me a crystal needed to be changed to convert to PS/2, but I never confirmed that (although I plan to since I have both versions here still). The Gen2 Northgates (which I believe were the only ones with ADB connectors), including the OmniMac, had a separate interface PC board inside, and some or most of the G2 Plus and Ultra boards had the ADB connectors installed, even if they weren't the OmniMac version. Probably used (with special cables and/or inline module) for the Atari, AT&T, or other "special" interface Northgate options. The 102 models used the same interface board as the Plus and Ultra, but with the ADB connector and component locations unused. Interesting if true about using a PS/2 mouse on ADB through the OmniMac connection.

edit: I forgot to mention that 1) yes, the OmniMacs are somewhat scarce, but several have popped up for sale in the last few years. 2) it seems like they came in two different colors--a brighter beige/white than the standard Northgates, and a grayish shade. My OmniMac-badged one is the gray color; my rebranded Cutting Edge one is white like the OmniMac-badged one in the above photo. Neither have any yellowing of the case or caps for some reason (dyed plastic?), which other Northgates are quite prone to.

[ZedTheMan]

Uh. I don't want to solicit necessarily but I do want to make it known I have an OmniMac Ultra in good condition (missing top left badge but otherwise quite clean and the switches are nice), and I need to get rid of keyboards myself... That one included.

[hellothere]

Uh. I don't want to solicit necessarily but I do want to make it known I have an OmniMac Ultra in good condition (missing top left badge but otherwise quite clean and the switches are nice), and I need to get rid of keyboards myself... That one included.

Well, go ahead and PM me. I'm not exactly difficult to find .

[ddrfraser1]

I have 60+ boards and am unwilling to admit I have a problem

[Polecat]

I have 60+ keyboards and I'm having delusions about buying Zed's OmniMac if hellothere doesn't.

I dug out some old Northgate manuals, and the dipswitch functions depend on model and version. I have two Gen2 books. One is undated, and in that one switches 7 and 8 are used to change the codes sent for the special function (SF) keys from standard F1-F12 to Shift-F1-F12, Ctrl-F1-F12, or Alt-F1-F12. The other is Rev. A, 7/90, and switches 7 and 8 are used to select between standard, Dvorak1, or Dvorak2. The SF keys on that version are reprogrammed internally by pressing and holding the SF key while pressing Ctrl, Alt, Shift, or Esc. So I guess it depends on which version of a Gen2 you have. The Rev spec on the label probably reflects this. And we've learned that early Gen2 Northgates didn't have the ADB connectors (which aren't talked about in either of these books). Unfortunately I don't have a book on the OmniMac version(s).

Note that switches 7 and 8 on Gen3 Northgates (under the badge by then) selected normal/Dvorak (7) and normal or sticky keys (8).

[ZedTheMan]

I have 60+ keyboards and I'm having delusions about buying Zed's OmniMac if hellothere doesn't.

I'll be sure to let you know, haha.

[hellothere]

BTW, I was just trying to find out more on ZedTheMan's keyboard and I came across http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/Northga ... _Keyboards. User's guides and diskette images.

[keyboard Kultist]

I'm somewhere between 100 and 200 boards now. I don't have a problem!!!! The spare bedroom has plenty of room left.

[XMIT]

Buying keyboards (clicking "buy", typing credit card digits, waiting, or sometimes just showing up at a warehouse with a truck) is waaaay easier than selling (pictures, descriptions, packing, shipping). That's why I have so many damn keyboards.

[Polecat]

BTW, I was just trying to find out more on ZedTheMan's keyboard and I came across http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/Northga ... _Keyboards. User's guides and diskette images.

Thanks for posting that! I've actually posted that site here in the past, but I had never reconciled the manuals there with the ones I saved when these keyboards were new. Turns out the Gen2 book on this site is later than both of mine, and the last two dipswitches (7 and 8) work like those on a Gen3 Northgate (the second book there). That means there are (at least) THREE different revisions of the Gen2 Northgates, all with different switch settings. So it's important to match up a Gen2 Northgate with the proper book. You won't blow one up by flipping dipswitches, but it could certainly cause some odd behavior. Zed's OmniMac is a Gen2, as I believe all OmniMacs are, but it's interesting that none of the three books mention the OmniMac or show switch settings for one. I'm definitely going to pop mine open and compare PC boards to see if the board or controller chip is different on the Mac version(s).

I was searching last night for info on these, and I found the page where someone suggested the PS/2 port might let you run a PS/2 mouse with the keyboard running on an ADB Mac. I'm 99 percent sure this was just a wild guess, and almost certainly a wrong one. They were trying to figure out why the interface board on the Gen2 had both ADB and PS/2 connections, even though there was no mention of the ADB connectors or Mac compatibility mode in the manual. No doubt the OmniMac version had its own User's Manual. Again, the interface board (separate from the main PC board that holds the switches) on the later Gen2 Northgates was used on both Mac and non-Mac versions. Some (i.e. the 102 models) had the ADB connector pads unpopulated and the chassis unpunched, but others (Plus and Ultra) had those connectors present and accessible, even on the PC versions. The big question is whether the controller chip or other components were different on the OmniMac version (perhaps the crystal I was told was different)? The good news is that I have everything here to figure that out, I just have to open up some keyboards and compare what's inside. I'll bump that up on my list, now that I have a good (or better) reason to do it!

[hellothere]

> I found the page where someone suggested the PS/2 port might let you run a PS/2 mouse with the keyboard running on an ADB Mac
I also commented that four or so posts back . It was a wild guess, as I haven't touched an OmniMac ... yet.

> I have 60+ keyboards and I'm having delusions about buying Zed's OmniMac if hellothere doesn't.


I've heard from others that the Northgate is one of the best, if not the best, case for Alps, so I'd actually like to see some threads regarding that. It's really helpful to say to someone, "Oh. Looking for a Northgate? Here are the feature sets and key layout in a nice chart."

[Lynx_Carpathica]

A couple weeks ago, I found a really cheap "has Alps switches" AEK II from a seller I've bought from before. My thought was that I might swap the cream switches with my white switches, as the white switches are great, but the Chicony case is ugly.

well yes...
(insert X - Same meme here)
I was thinking about the same. I have an AEK II with 8/10 SKCM Ivories. Pristine mountingplate. I like the THICC build quality of that keyboard, and also.. I'm a huge dyesub PBT fan. Really really like it. But, for now, I don't quite know what I prefer. I have to clean the switches first to be able to judge them, so the keyfeel won't get worse quickly. I had Ivory alps installed in my KB-5181 Chicony. I swapped the bad SKCM White switches to them. I liked them back then. Also, I'll have to wait for my Teensy 2.0 to arrive so I can try it out in the long run. I really liked the damped alps in the chicony. The keyfeel was much lighter than my white alpses, and comming from an mx blue board... It is rather uncomfortable to type on white alps again. The tactility is just too stiff, and painfully strong.
On the top of everything, it's ISO. And I could KILL for another ISO board to transplant my white switches into. Bigass enters are my bigest enemy, especially without the 102nd key, with the single unit backspace. It would be a sacralege to dismantle the AEKII. Knowing myself, that will be my daily driver from now on.

[hellothere]

Siri. Set a reminder: I can hire someone to kill for the price of an ISO keeb. Bookmark this thread.

Isn't ISO the one with a BAE?

Spoiler:

e909f24160b98a8c52c726d45bec9ff4.png (154.86 KiB) Viewed 4698 times

I'd actually prefer a BAE, big backspace/delete, and big shift key. Hey, find out what the average is of both shift keys put together and put one on each side of the keyboard.

Anyhow, I was under the impression that a) early pine white Alps are very similar to blue Alps, b) orange Alps are the tactile version of blue Alps, c) salmon Alps are a heavier version of orange, and d) cream/ivory damped Alps are essentially salmon with the little damping thingies on the slider. However, I have a box of Spirit springs sitting next to me and the 55cn* springs are supposed to be for blue, salmon, cream, and yellow. The 50cn ones are supposed to be for white and orange. According to the Wiki, blue is 70gf, white is just about 70gf, cream/ivory damped is just about 70gf, orange is not listed (feels a bit stiffer than white to me), and salmon is not listed (feels heavier than orange to me).

I'm typing all this because, as with all things on the Intarnet, someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. People might also come to complain if I'm right .

===============

cN and gf are almost identical. See https://www.unitconverters.net/force/ce ... -force.htm. 1cN is about 1.02gf.

[Polecat]

> I found the page where someone suggested the PS/2 port might let you run a PS/2 mouse with the keyboard running on an ADB Mac
I also commented that four or so posts back . It was a wild guess, as I haven't touched an OmniMac ... yet.

> I have 60+ keyboards and I'm having delusions about buying Zed's OmniMac if hellothere doesn't.


I've heard from others that the Northgate is one of the best, if not the best, case for Alps, so I'd actually like to see some threads regarding that. It's really helpful to say to someone, "Oh. Looking for a Northgate? Here are the feature sets and key layout in a nice chart."

I was referring to your mention of the PS/2 mouse post on the other site, and that it was probably not going to work that way. I was an avid reader of the computer magazines when the Northgates were new, and someone would surely have mentioned that if it indeed worked that way.

There's quite a bit of talk in the old threads here about the Northgates. Search "Omnikey" as well as "Northgate" and you'll find most of them.

Like you I expected to find detailed info online on the Northgates, but surprisingly it just doesn't exist, despite the amount of interest in these keyboards. Bob Tibbetts' site has photos of most of the different versions, and he probably knows more about them than anyone:

http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

I've been putting together a database with all the examples I've found (almost 500 Northgates now), including all the info on the labels and the physical features. I've posted a couple lists of the different generations and models, but I don't know how to put that in the wiki or to make up a slick looking chart. And of course I can't say *anything* in 140 words or less. I'm still learning more about these keyboards every day, like yesterday's discovery of there being at least three different versions of the Gen2 switch functions. I *will* pop my Gen2s open soon to figure out what's different about the OmniMac version(s). Probably this weekend as I have some extra time off.