Alps Appreciation

[inozenz]

yes, why who are you?

I'm the one you got your keyboard from

Yes, i thought so, don't get me wrong the keyboard works fine it's just the sound who is a little bit off,

Yeah no worries, as I said the chicony is not the best keyboard to try blue Alps on.

[amigastar23]

I'm the one you got your keyboard from

Yes, i thought so, don't get me wrong the keyboard works fine it's just the sound who is a little bit off,

Yeah no worries, as I said the chicony is not the best keyboard to try blue Alps on.

Yeah, i think i'm gonna risk it and try other keycaps with it.

[TNT]

Did you ever have the chance to try different keyboards with Blue Alps?

[amigastar23]

Did you ever have the chance to try different keyboards with Blue Alps?

No, i just heard them at yt channel of Chryosran22. And i have a couple of white alps keyboards.

[thefarside]

My recommendation would be an Omni Key 102 or similar Northgate keyboard. If it has white alps you could swap your blues in.

[amigastar23]

My recommendation would be an Omni Key 102 or similar Northgate keyboard. If it has white alps you could swap your blues in.

Is there something i should watch out for while swapping Blue Alps into a White Alps Keyboard?

[TNT]

I mean, besides from being careful while doing all the soldering... Not really? There are plenty tutorials and guides here for the dismantling process.

[inozenz]

My recommendation would be an Omni Key 102 or similar Northgate keyboard. If it has white alps you could swap your blues in.

Northgates are not optainable in EU. Importing to Germany from us is especially expensive.

[amigastar23]

I mean, besides from being careful while doing all the soldering... Not really? There are plenty tutorials and guides here for the dismantling process.

Really soldering? I thought i can swap only the switches without soldering.
Like in this pic i thought i have to swap only the orange marked parts.

[TNT]

I mean, you can. Thing with blue Alps is, those lower parts also were different in those older generations (I'm talking switchplate, which can't be removed without soldering). And this makes quite the difference.

I'm no expert, but others can give their two cents on that and correct me if I'm wrong here: It could be that later blue Alps used the same switchplate and lubrication method as early whites and probably other switches from the SKCM/L family from that time. So if your two boards match, you could just go ahead like you said and switch around. If your blues are in pretty much perfect condition I'd rather desolder them (if you know what you're doing, that is) than to open them up. Might be just me, but I'm always a bit careful when it comes to mixmatching parts like that. Parts could get dirty (Alps are very sensitive to dust) and I'd wanna keep them in their original condition anyways.

[Polecat]

Really soldering? I thought i can swap only the switches without soldering.
Like in this pic i thought i have to swap only the orange marked parts.

Personally I do less damage soldering and desoldering switches than I do working on the tiny parts inside. But that's because I've been soldering for over 50 years.

More importantly, you need to be aware that early white Alps switches were similar or the same inside as blues. The color of the slider has no affect on the feel or sound. It's the parts inside that you are hearing or feeling. White Alps switches were made for quite a few years, and there were several internal changes. They are definitely not all the same. If you can find white Alps switches or a white Alps keyboard from 1989-1990 you can have the feel and sound of blue Alps for a fraction of the cost.

edit: Most of the long-timers here know that white Alps replaced blue Alps, and that there were changes in both over time. When the keyboard manufacturers ordered clicky SKCM switches they didn't have a choice of slider color. Alps replaced blue with white in early-mid-1989 and as the keyboard companies ran out of blue switches they got white on the next order. So there's no exact cutoff date for whites replacing blues. Again, early white Alps switches were internally the same as late blues, probably including having factory lube. White Alps switches were made for a longer period of time than blues, so there were more changes to those over time. (still largely undocumented...) And because of the growth in the computer industry there were more and more white Alps switches made as time went on. As a result a lot more people have experienced late white Alps than early ones, and understandably have a lower opinion. Anyone who talks about "white Alps" as if they are all the same is just displaying their ignorance. If you haven't tried early white Alps switches you shouldn't believe anyone who claims they're not as good as blues.

[amigastar23]

Aye, thanks for the info Polecat.

[ntv242ver2]

Well it is worth to note that blue itself went through multiple changes as well so there are different versions of skcm blue.
There I just dig the rabbit hole deeper for ya

[Polecat]

Well it is worth to note that blue itself went through multiple changes as well so there are different versions of skcm blue.
There I just dig the rabbit hole deeper for ya

Absolutely, only it's worse than that, because the case and keycaps make as much difference as the switches. I have probably half a dozen blue Alps keyboads, but my driver is a Monterey K104 with early white Alps. I have five or six white Alps K104s and every one is different. I built one using the best parts from each, and that was successful at least.

Yes, I'm digging my rabbit hole in the ocean, but the guys digging next to me keep throwing their water in my hole!

[amigastar23]

Well it is worth to note that blue itself went through multiple changes as well so there are different versions of skcm blue.
There I just dig the rabbit hole deeper for ya

Absolutely, only it's worse than that, because the case and keycaps make as much difference as the switches. I have probably half a dozen blue Alps keyboads, but my driver is a Monterey K104 with early white Alps. I have five or six white Alps K104s and every one is different. I built one using the best parts from each, and that was successful at least.

Yes, I'm digging my rabbit hole in the ocean, but the guys digging next to me keep throwing their water in my hole!

Yes, i also have a Monterey K104 with early white Alps and i love it.

[engr]

I've been down the rabbit hole of finding or building a perfect blue Alps keyboard with a solid chassis, nice sound, and Windows keys.
The closest I got to perfection is an OmniKey Ultra-TP into which I transplanted NOS blue Alps and improved the sound by adding a few layers of PE packing foam to make the sound deeper (funnily enough, I found that this packing foam worked better for this purpose than more specialized foams and dampening materials).

If you want a keyboard with Windows keys and blue Alps, you have a few options:

1. Get a vintage Alps-compatible keyboard with Windows keys (late Focus FK-2001, Omnikey-101P, 102P, or Ultra-TP, Avant Prime, Avant Stellar, Dell AT101W), which will probably come with simplified Alps or Alps clones, and transplant blue Alps and good keycaps (most, but not all, of these boards come with cheap lasered or pad-printed keycaps).

2. Get a modern Alps-compatible keyboard, like one of the Matias models or KBParadise V80 (if you don't mind the TKL form factor). Your keyboard won't even need a PS2-to-USB adapter.

3. Get a vintage Alps-compatible keyboard and a modern PCB that's compatible with Alps and with your specific vintage keyboard. If you want a full-size, there aren't many options, but they exist.

4. If you are OK with TKL or 60% form factor, there are more options as far as PCBs and mounting plates.

[Tribal]

1. Get a vintage Alps-compatible keyboard with Windows keys (late Focus FK-2001, Omnikey-101P, 102P, or Ultra-TP, Avant Prime, Avant Stellar, Dell AT101W), which will probably come with simplified Alps or Alps clones, and transplant blue Alps and good keycaps (most, but not all, of these boards come with cheap lasered or pad-printed keycaps).
[url=https://www.keebal.com/pcb]they exist[/

Are all of the SKCM bottom housings of about the same quality? I was thinking of putting some oranges into a Dell AT101W and would prefer not to get into soldering.

[ntv242ver2]

1. Get a vintage Alps-compatible keyboard with Windows keys (late Focus FK-2001, Omnikey-101P, 102P, or Ultra-TP, Avant Prime, Avant Stellar, Dell AT101W), which will probably come with simplified Alps or Alps clones, and transplant blue Alps and good keycaps (most, but not all, of these boards come with cheap lasered or pad-printed keycaps).
[url=https://www.keebal.com/pcb]they exist[/

Are all of the SKCM bottom housings of about the same quality? I was thinking of putting some oranges into a Dell AT101W and would prefer not to get into soldering.

Well they do have different switch plates, like yours would have short white ones while the older ones, generally, have long switch plates with different colors.

People do say that they make a difference. For me, the difference is subtle. It depends on individual taste really.

If you intend to stay in this hobby for long, learning soldering is absolutely worth it. It does not have to be so costly, I have a cheap 36 quids soldering station made in china from amazon that has been working for three years for me. I might have jinxed myself typing this, but whatever :p

Get an SS-02 hand pump, best best best beginner tool for desoldering and totally worth the money. That is about as cheap as you can get going into soldering.

[thefarside]

If you intend to stay in this hobby for long, learning soldering is absolutely worth it.

Totally agree. I learned to solder and desolder on an old Focus board using a cheap Amazon soldering kit and an old solder sucker I found in an e-waste bin and it’s easier for me to desolder a bad alps switch than troubleshoot a faulty switch plate.

[engr]

In my experience, Solderwick works really well. I have been using it recently even though I have a desoldering gun. The gun is not that much quicker, considering you need to constantly re-tin and clean it after every few solder joints.

[engr]

I ran into a really weird malfunction in my Omnikey Ultra-TP. Left Ctrl and Left Shift keys work intermittently, i.e. they work three times in a row but "ignore" every 4th key press very consistently. Kind of like the old Omnikey 101s ignored every other PrintScreen press.

Using a different PS/2-to-USB converter did not help. Transplanting new switches under the malfunctioning keys did not help. Transplanting a new chip and a new oscillator from a 101P did not help. I am not seeing any damaged traces or bad solder joints. WTH is going on? Capacitors? Diodes? I already outfitted this board with blue Alps so I really don't want to desolder all these switches.

[guidemetothelight]

I finally filled it

B5A10034-2D40-4113-A462-F175DA6B7E4E.jpeg (2.47 MiB) Viewed 38594 times

there are a lot of clones but some real alps in there.
favourites so far by order: brown, blue's, oranges

[hellothere]

Kind of like the old Omnikey 101s ignored every other PrintScreen press.

That's by design.

Using a different PS/2-to-USB converter did not help. Transplanting new switches under the malfunctioning keys did not help. Transplanting a new chip and a new oscillator from a 101P did not help. I am not seeing any damaged traces or bad solder joints. WTH is going on? Capacitors? Diodes? I already outfitted this board with blue Alps so I really don't want to desolder all these switches.

For me, who is quite vision challenged, it's difficult to see the traces on any PCB. The 101 I'm currently typing on is one has some of the smallest traces I've seen. If you don't have one, I'd recommend a cheap multimeter (this one's all of $11) and test connections for continuity.

When I got this 101, F5-F8 and the print screen keys weren't working. I can understand just the print screen, but four keys right next to each other? That's bizarre. I replaced all the switches twice and still no worky. Got out the multimeter and tested. Problem was a bad trace. I currently have that fixed by single a short wire.

[hellothere]

Finally finished the 101.

Spoiler:

FullTop - Copy.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 37919 times

FullBottom - Copy.jpg (1.23 MiB) Viewed 37919 times

DIP - Copy.jpg (2.15 MiB) Viewed 37919 times

BottomCaseInternal - Copy.jpg (967.25 KiB) Viewed 37919 times

Yes, it's now "badgeless." The 101 has a sticker instead of a plastic badge. It's now pretty much destroyed. I also moved the bottom case sticker into the inside of the case.

I'd like a darker grey lock lights sticker, but I can't have everything. Where would I put it?

[Polecat]

Finally finished the 101.

Yes, it's now "badgeless." The 101 has a sticker instead of a plastic badge. It's now pretty much destroyed. I also moved the bottom case sticker into the inside of the case.

I'd like a darker grey lock lights sticker, but I can't have everything. Where would I put it?

Very nice. I like the idea of keeping the sticker with it, and inside is good for anyone who cares enough to look. I've put hand written labels inside several of my custom jobs, as much to remember what I did as to let the next owner know after I'm dead and gone.

[inozenz]

Finally finished the 101.

Spoiler:

FullTop - Copy.jpg
FullBottom - Copy.jpg
DIP - Copy.jpg
BottomCaseInternal - Copy.jpg

Yes, it's now "badgeless." The 101 has a sticker instead of a plastic badge. It's now pretty much destroyed. I also moved the bottom case sticker into the inside of the case.

I'd like a darker grey lock lights sticker, but I can't have everything. Where would I put it?

oh this grey actually works great on this keyboard. some of the paint jobs dont compliment the keycaps but yours do :O good job

[Muirium]

Quite classy indeed.



Subtle harmony with the slate mods, while the pearly white alphas really pop. Even complements the legend colour. Nicely done.

[engr]

I'd like a darker grey lock lights sticker, but I can't have everything.

I've looked into making custom stickers for restoring Omnikeys, and I got some transparent and opaque slides that can be printed on with a laser printer, and that have an adhesive back surface. What I haven't been able to find is a thicker transparent "frosted" plastic to use as an overlay. If anyone knows where to find such a thing, please let me know.

[engr]

What is the least invasive way to pull Alps switches from the metal plate after they are desoldered from PCB?
They sit in the plate pretty tightly, and everything I've tried so far - different types of pliers, switch puller - resulted in scratches to the switch case.

[guidemetothelight]

What is the least invasive way to pull Alps switches from the metal plate after they are desoldered from PCB?

Depends, but normally & escpecially when the pcb of the donor board is not as important, I pry them out. I stick this tool from my ifixit kit in between the bottom of the switches and the pcb and pry upwards, works like a charm. put a towel or your hand over the switch or it will fly through the room

71Nsurx2tRL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg (22.64 KiB) Viewed 37302 times