Thoughts on vertical mice?

[boxjon]

I searched a bit this morning and could not find anything about vertical mice on these threads. Was able to find really videos online of the KENESIS. Not sure if I'm pro enough for that yet though. lol.

[Findecanor]

Then you must have missed the thread: Advice on mice to stop RSI problems.

[boxjon]

I don't have RSI, was just looking for opinion on vertical mice.

[HzFaq]

I do have RSI and a vertical mouse only moved the pain futher down my wrist.

It works for a bit, but if something is wrong with your workstation it won't matter what mouse you use, you'll still end up with pain.

[boxjon]

I do have RSI and a vertical mouse only moved the pain futher down my wrist.

It works for a bit, but if something is wrong with your workstation it won't matter what mouse you use, you'll still end up with pain.

Well, I don't spend too much time at my station but I'd like an ergonomic solution to be able to prevent future problems with RSI. But I also want a mouse I can game with. Trackballs and vertical mice just seem so alien to me. I'm currently using the ASUS GX800 and hopefully it doesnt crap out on me, cause I wouldnt know which direction to go.

[fossala]

Trackballs are good IMO.

[boxjon]

Trackballs are good IMO.

Which one do you use?

[Findecanor]

But I also want a mouse I can game with.

That rules out the most common vertical mouse: the Evoluent. It has "prediction", I.e. it "corrects" your movements to the X and Y axes when your movements are close. It is also a bit big and hard to grip, which I think could be a disadvantage if you want to do sudden movements.
The only other vertical mouse that I have used is the Wowpen Joy, which has too hard buttons, and is otherwise quite cheaply constructed.

[boxjon]

But I also want a mouse I can game with.

That rules out the most common vertical mouse: the Evoluent. It has "prediction", I.e. it "corrects" your movements to the X and Y axes when your movements are close. It is also a bit big and hard to grip, which I think could be a disadvantage if you want to do sudden movements.
The only other vertical mouse that I have used is the Wowpen Joy, which has too hard buttons, and is otherwise quite cheaply constructed.

Um the grip on that mouse brings back preteen memories.....oh lawd.

[Icarium]

I have an Evoluent Vertical Mouse and also game with it.
I've only used it for a couple of weeks but if you have any specific questions I can try to answer them.

[Input Nirvana]

I had the Evoluent 3. When I saw it I was sure I would like it. Sort of like the Kinesis Advantage... I just knew.
And I did like the Evoluent...as a mouse. I definitely liked changing the typical 'mouse' grip. But as it turns out...I don't like moving something around the desk, I just doesn't make much sense to me (but it has it's place). I use Rollermouse Free 2, an Apple Trackpad, and a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro sometimes to change things up. I've always been meaning to get the laser CST mouse...someday...

Icarium...what became of your Rollermouse Free? Sorry I don't stay in touch...it's been a rough 6 months!

[Icarium]

I still use it. I keep swapping things around. Right now I'm using my old G5 and my new Evoluent mouse with my the Kinesis with the fancy NEO layout on a self made stand-up desk. At work I'm just using what they gave me. Only been here three months, still too early to be super weird.

[NewGuy]

I have heard bad things about the vertical mice when researching something for my right hand. People say that they immediately feel a benefit when switching from another mouse, but then several months later they have a new pain in their wrists.

The vertical "handshape grip" opens up your forearm, but encourages you moving the mouse with your wrist, and gripping tightly for fine movements. Actuating the buttons also encourages a strong pinching motion, and people complain about the weight of their hand pressing down on a small contact area, creating a pressure point.

I've also heard people complain about developing shoulder pain from using them rather than wrist pain.

[HzFaq]

That's almost exactly my experience NewGuy, wrist pain moved further down and around to the thumb area, shoulder pain (I think this might be from trying to use the mouse by using my arm and not my wrist though) and a pain between the thumb and first finger from the pinching/clicking motion. All in all it is less than the discomfort I was getting from using a normal mouse but to be honest, replacing one type of discomfort for 3 types of lesser discomfort is silly.

I've got another workstation assesment coming up and I'm going to try and get the powers that be to get me a nice trackball or rollermouse.

[Icarium]

I think it's definitely an improvement if you keep switching. Remember, that is the core rule of ergonomics!
I have an evoluent vertical mouse and a logitech G5 on my desk and I really switch them all the time.

[HzFaq]

Yeah, I switch between my vertical mouse in my right hand and a "normal" mouse in the left; the problem I'm getting now (and the reason for the follow up assesment) is that the same pain that I had in my right hand that prompted the first assesment I am now getting in the left, hence the move away from standard mice to a trackball/rollermouse. I kind of prefer the idea of a trackball more as it can be ambidextrous but I'm also kind of worried that it is a similar wrist/arm movement to a standard horizontal mouse.

[NewGuy]

I've got another workstation assesment coming up and I'm going to try and get the powers that be to get me a nice trackball or rollermouse.

Switching between different hands and input methods definitely seems to be key to reducing these problems.

I must caution you though. I just recently received a Kensington Slimblade trackball to use with my left hand, and it's far too low resolution to use on modern displays in my opinion. The maximum travel you get in a single movement (far left to far right of the exposed surface) is equivalent to a 400 DPI mouse, and only covers about 80% of my 1080p monitor. Having to repeatedly rotate the ball just to cover the screen - a regular movement only covers about half of it - is definitely going to lead to problems. Precise movements are difficult too - I'm starting to wonder whether it's actually better than mousing with my left hand.

So far, I can only find the CST L-Trac trackballs as advertising higher DPI steps. (but I don't like the layout of them) I guess trackballs aren't popular enough for companies to spend any money updating the sensors in them.


I've also found that unless my wrist is at the same height as the top of the ball itself, I was straining my wrist when using it. This may be less of an issue with more recessed designs though.

[TheQsanity]

So what is better( or better for you)
Mouse,
Vert mouse,
Or trackball.

It seems that vert mouses are a great compromise even if it was a compromise at sll for gaming.

[webwit]

I've an old Anir vertical mouse, and the only difference is the way you hold it.

But as it turns out...I don't like moving something around the desk, I just doesn't make much sense to me (but it has it's place). I use Rollermouse Free 2, an Apple Trackpad, and a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro sometimes to change things up.

I mostly use a modern Logitech mouse and thumb trackball, but I've also got the Kensington, trackpads and tried the Rollermouse. Least hand movement on the thumb trackball. But guess what. After that, the Logitech mouse wins. I have my hand on it, and moving my hand slightly left and right moves the cursor across the entire screen. With the Kensington, the trackpads and the Rollermouse I actually have to put in more action and movement.

[crate]

I've been happily using my 3M Ergonomic Mouse for 10+ years.

I used to do a lot of heavy FPS gaming, and developed pretty bad carpal tunnel in my wrists. It started in my right wrist, and a dull ache, and eventually got to the point where if I played games for an hour, I'd feel the pain and numbness all day. I even switched to my left hand for a while, but that too started getting pain. I eventually spent the $50 for the 3M Ergonomic Mouse, and I've never had a problem since.

I'm a computer programmer, so I spend the majority of my time in front of a computer. I've got one at work, and at home. There's a few things you should know about this mouse:

1. It will take a week or two to get your accuracy back, but you can absolutely still play video games.
2. This mouse has no scroll-wheel, so get used to using PageUp/PageDown.
3. The construction is not the greatest, and after a while the buttons will develop a tendency to double-click.

Still, this is the best $50 I've spent on computer equipment.

Edit: added image and URL:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Ergonomic-Opti ... omic+mouse

[itlnstln]

One of my employees has an Evoluent. I tried it, but I didn't like the completely vertical feel. When I lay my hand on the desk, it's half way between horizontal and vertical. Because of this, I prefer the MS Natural [Bunch of Other Shit] 6000/7000. Unfortunately, they are OOP. I bought up a bunch of them from eBay, so I'll be stocked up for the next 15 years or so.

[nodnerb]

+1 for 3M Ergonomic mouse.

More recently I have been using a Zalman FPSGun. Also good, with a scroll wheel. Buttons under fingers instead of thumb-activated. But also much cheaper than the 3M.

If I had to use a non-vertical mouse I would probably have to stop using computers due to wrist pain.

[fohat]

I have been very pleased with this Wow Joy knockoff:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380468204499

Especially after I upgraded the stiff switches with some nice Omrons from an old Logitech ball mouse.

I tried the Evoluent but it was far too upright for me.

[Jmneuv]

"Hot Joy" brilliant.

[MMTE]

I too use the 3M mouse and rate it the best computer accessory I own. I own two - one for home and one for work. I've just had a look and it seems I exclusively move the mouse using my arm, which I suppose goes some way to explaining why I can use it day after day with no problems. I can use a regular mouse for minutes (if that) before it hurts. It wasn't always this way, but I overdid it when I was younger. My profession requires a lot of significant mouse interaction.

[HzFaq]

I mean, it's a 5 year bump and I'm not around all that much these days so to quote me when I'm around is too much of a coincidence for me not to reply .

I've been using a CST L-Track for probably 4 years now and haven't had any pain anywhere from mousing. Alongside that though, I have moved exclusively to programmable keyboards using a FN layer of my own design that reduces the amount I use the mouse massively. I like to think that the mouse has helped but I'm almost positive that it is the fact I'm using it much less due to the keyboard. I did try a Rollermouse, but that gave me problems with my thumbs; I'm fairly sure I was using it wrong though and got into some bad habits I couldn't break.

tl;dr - CST L-Track and TMK keyboard.

[stratokaster]

I switched to a Contour Unimouse at home. It’s been only a few weeks, but I haven’t noticed any discomfort so far. I like that both the vertical angle and the thumb support are adjustable.