Advice – best small PC?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've just realised that the HDD in my PC is failing (just had to restore the AGP driver from dllcache after I found it to be unreadable after a reboot). Not worth getting a new drive as my PC is too old.

Currently I've got an OptiPlex GX270 small form factor, and I'll probably just get another of the same (3010/7010/9010 — can't get my head around it as you can spec all three ranges the same for around the same price, or at least you could with the 390/790/990).

Not unless anyone has a compelling recommendation for something of similar size. Core i7, lots of RAM. Must ship with a bare Windows OEM DVD for clean, crap-free installs. Discrete DVI video card with a good spec — would prefer the slot and PSU capacity for a full-size video card, but if I'm stuck with a low-profile card that's fine (last I checked, Dell no longer do full-size card risers for Small Desktop cases). I'd rather have something small that I can sit on my desk, and SFF is an ideal size even if it limits me terribly on video. Got to be a reputable product from a reputable vendor!

[webwit]

Sorry man, I don't know, I just buy an "any box" nowadays. Currently Acer.

[phetto]

I have been using Shuttle pcs for a few years now, works good. Pricey as hell though

[madmalkav]

Must ship with a bare Windows OEM DVD for clean, crap-free installs.

You know you can use a Windows ISO with the serial that comes with the PC, right? I have been doing that for a good time, mainly because of stupid brands -Hello, Medion!- selling 4GB RAM systems with 32 bit OS installed.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

You know you can use a Windows ISO with the serial that comes with the PC, right?

I'm familiar with the idea of altering the OEM files on the CD to match your manufacturer, but I've never tried it. I don't know any other techniques.

I have been using Shuttle pcs for a few years now, works good. Pricey as hell though

The only Shuttle PCs I've encountered were unreliable and a nuisance to maintain. (Seem to recall Shuttle didn't make any drivers available for older models.)

What's the advantage of Shuttle over other brands?

[madmalkav]

I'm familiar with the idea of altering the OEM files on the CD to match your manufacturer, but I've never tried it. I don't know any other techniques.

I never had the need of doing that with Windows 7. I think that "OEM linked serials" stuff ended with Windows 7 but not totally sure ATM.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm also going to go with Windows 8 — looking forwards to gnashing myself into needing dentures. Hopefully I won't need to re-open Bug of the Moment as a result.

Dell should have a build-to-order option for Keyboard:

⊙ Don't need any of your stinking rubberdome boards, −£10.00

(Wouldn't mind a new mouse if anyone made one that didn't suck.)

[mbodrov]

In countries like the UK, now even technically minded people don't any longer build their own PCs?

[7bit]

In countries like the UK, now even technically minded people don't any longer build their own PCs?

I never build my own but I always buy in a small computer shop and let them build it together whith whatever parts are convenient or necessary. The forelast went into a 10 year old case and the current one needed only a new case bacause the old ones where too small.

If you want a small desktop-PC, why not taking an IBM PS/2, get the useless crap out and put something more modern in?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In countries like the UK, now even technically minded people don't any longer build their own PCs?

Pretty sure they still do. It doesn't mean that everyone has an in-depth knowledge of parts and compatibility and wants the hassle of sorting it all out. A computer is a tool, not a pile of intermingled jigsaw puzzles.

Same goes for the Phantom — not everyone here wants to assemble their own keyboard. You know, sometimes it's nice to just buy one and plug it in, and it works, eh?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

OK, one 9010 SF its way. Let's hope I don't regret it.

[rodtang]

Aww man, building your own PC is tons more fun and they cause less frustration then those pre-built Dells (I hate them so much).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What's wrong with a pre-built OptiPlex?

[rodtang]

What's wrong with a pre-built OptiPlex?

There probably isn't anything wrong with the OptiPlex. It's just that I had a few older smaller dell something or other and just the thought of those things makes me want to punch things.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In countries like the UK, now even technically minded people don't any longer build their own PCs?

The other way to look at this: how come with all the technical folk here, so few people actually know how to contribute to a wiki?

[webwit]

One can't know everything, and mediawiki has a learning curve which requires focus and investment. Barrier to entry. They seem to be addressing it.
http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/11/17/ ... processors

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I was being a bit rhetorical, so you deserve a big *whoosh* for that.

[bpiphany]

I just built a i5 quad core on an Intel motherboard, 16GB RAM, and an Intel 120GB SSD into one of these Lian-Li chassis. It's really tiny =D I need to stress test it some to see how the temperature handles, but so far it looks ok. Total ~€600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2JvKuVTYMc

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I just built a i5 quad core on an Intel motherboard, 16GB RAM, and an Intel 120GB SSD into one of these Lian-Li chassis. It's really tiny =D I need to stress test it some to see how the temperature handles, but so far it looks ok. Total ~€600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2JvKuVTYMc

Is that the kind with a door on the front for no reason?

[bpiphany]

I didn't notice any door =) The side panels come off without any screws. That is a nice upgrade from my last Lian-Li chassis. And I'm of course talking about the smaller case in that video.

[bhtooefr]

The 3010 isn't available in USFF, and only has 2 DIMM slots.

7010 adds Core i7 options, 4 DIMM slots on MT, DT, and SFF, adds the USFF form factor, and adds vPro remote management.

9010 adds a Nvidia GPU option and RAID support.

Also, Dell claims 8 GiB max RAM on 3010 and 7010, versus 32 max for 9010.

Disclaimer, Dell is my employer, but I'm not in marketing.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting. I've concocted a URL template that will bring up the warranty page (and thence drivers) given a service tag, but Dell's recent restructuring of the support section broke official acceptance of the service tag GET parameter. It still works (I had to find a new URL format) but every now and then, jumping into service and support via my URL with a service tag in, destroys the session and the site won't function again until I clear my Dell cookies. Someone should look into making that feature official (it used to work perfectly). Currently I have www. dell. com/support/troubleshooting/uk/en/ukbsdt1/Index?servicetag=<put service tag here> (deliberately made non-clickable as it's not a working URL)

I don't hold out any hope whatsoever for their ordering system not sucking donkey balls. If you bring up all the OptiPlex options, you can only buy certain models: click Core i7 and the SF option is dimmed, for example. (BTW, it's "SF" not "SFF" now — goodness knows why. That alone confused me for a while.)

Go in via the 9010 page, and you can only choose MT and SF. Now the DT option that was allowed before, is not possible. This is why I posted and then retracted a comment that I couldn't have Core i7 (not with SF), until I found another way in, where now SF and Core i7 is possible.

Also, unlike in the past, the SF models now only have one video card option: ATI. Now that I've realised that ATI are the bad guys (apparently), I was going to choose NVIDIA, but no such luck. (I don't want to buy a card separately as I'll spend the rest of the year trying to determine conclusively which cards do and don't require PCIe power and will cope in a small case and a low-rated PSU, as Dell are terribly skimpy on power wattage and cables. Even the full-size MT models don't have PCIe power for a video card, or spare molex leads to convert.)

Dell are good for reliability, but terrible when it comes to options. It's like they don't want you to order from them.

On the other hand, they were very prompt and helpful when my bank decided I was a fraudster :)

[bhtooefr]

You might also try calling, they might be able to build a config that does what you want.

(I'm used to the US site, where everything shows up and works right, as long as you pick small business (OptiPlexes don't show up at all in home, of course). Of course, I don't look that often - my job is to fix and install the ones that have already been ordered (by a specific customer), not to help people order them.)

Also, since when were ATI the bad guys? (I thought they were the ones with better Linux support.)

[rodtang]

ATI is no more, it's AMD now and yes, they're the ones with better Linux support.

[RC-1140]

Well, ATI does have a better Linux support than Nvidia, but the proprietary driver isn't particularly good either. I have not met a single computer with an ATI card, where I didn't get a blackscreen without the "nomodeset" boot option using the proprietary driver. Sadly the Radeon (OSS driver) doesn't have full support for the modern graphic cards.

Also:

[Daniel Beardsmore]

ATI is no more, it's AMD now and yes, they're the ones with better Linux support.

Pretty sure it said ATI when I ordered it, but I checked and no, AMD. Doh.

My home PC is fine (brand new 3450 AGP), but my ATI card at work (HD 2400 XT?) loved to kick in the fan at full tilt every time I scrolled anything; seems to have stopped that now after a couple of years, and I'm not sure what I did that fixed it (as I wasn't aware that I had). One driver version would crash if I used the wheel-click scrolling in Word. Every driver version seems to swap the left and right outputs from the DMS-59 connector, and my screens are really fussy about DVI stability — last time I changed driver, I ended up with the more finicky monitor on the more finicky DVI output, and in the morning the image can violenly shake and switch off until the monitor warms up. I need to reinstall CCC and switch back on the "pretend to make DVI work" settings (they did sort of help). That or swap out the cable. Just ignoring it though.

Also: <video>

lol! Linus is always reassuringly human.

[Icarium]

AMD has better linux support? When did that change? Only last year I sold the ATI/AMD card I had bought with my computer because it was too much of a pain to get it to work in linux.

[dirge]

I built a pc at the beginning of the year, could have bought off the peg and saved a bit of money but I wanted a silent pc that looked good.

happy with the results too, can't even tell its on. My microservers far louder than it.

[7bit]

AMD has better linux support? When did that change? Only last year I sold the ATI/AMD card I had bought with my computer because it was too much of a pain to get it to work in linux.

The first OS which ran on 64bit PCs from AMD was SuSE Linux. This is quite some time ago. I think it is like driving Volvo and Mercedes because of passive security.

With Intel and AMD I had equally many problems with things that worked with one release and then didn't work with the next release. However, if there is no harware failure (like on my home machine since yesterday ) you will have less trouble than with Windows.

Linux: hard to install, then it works until the box dies.
Windows: preinstalled, nothing to be done, then it does not work properly until the box dies.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Windows: preinstalled, nothing to be done, then it does not work properly until the box dies.
:roll:

To be fair, I wouldn't be so attached to my antiquated PC if it didn't, by and large, run really reliably :-) It has its issues, but those are unavoidable no matter what (and probably more my own doing). I have just reached the point that repairing it is no longer worth the hassle considering its age. Considering all the upgrades it's due (RAM, CPU, OS) and of course the HDD replacement, it's best to start over.