[IC] DSA spherical

[7bit]

This still lacks the STANDARD kit for the masses:

6RuAvmD.png (197.87 KiB) Viewed 7724 times

I've rearanged the keys which where in the Standard modifiers kit, but belong to the alpha block, likw `~ and \| (1.5 units).

Function keys (F1-12 separately). Spreading them accross 2 kits is nonsense.

The Numpad and Extra keys kits are nice.

But the mud-kits (Modder=mud in German) need a change.

For example, Hyper is missing.

[matt3o]

is that all it takes to make it good? Well we are pretty close then

in ALPHA I've placed the non standard ANSI keys outside of the rack so it's easier for Melissa to spot them (less prone to errors I thought).

I can see Hyper in 1, 1.25 and 1.5 in kit 7, you need more?

[7bit]

OK, I've found it. I saw the Atari keys are missing and thought you did not add Hyper as replacement for them.

Maybe the Modder kits should be sorted by size/color (preferably size).

It does not help. I still need to buy 1.25 units keys along with necessary TAB, ESC, DEL, END, cursor keys etc.

[matt3o]

Maybe the Modder kits should be sorted by size/color (preferably size).

by sorted you mean... placed in a kit of their own?

EDIT: oh gosh this GB will never start

[7bit]

Yes.
And add this one again, most people want this, the other stuff is add-on stuff:

DSA_STANDARDKIT.png (34.79 KiB) Viewed 7697 times

Kit 2 shuld be a normal Number block kit, maybe ready for G80-1800 and G80-2100/25xx keyboards (1u +, 1u 0).

Then put all those extra keys / UK keys etc into one kit as you already did.

Then modifiers 1, 1.25 and 1.5 units all into separate kits.

There should be separate Cursor keys and maybe WASD keys available. They always go well!

All of those 1 unit function keys (except F1-F12) should also go into a separate kit.
Same for the alpha kit as I suggested in the forelast graphic I posted.

I think it might be OK to put all color variants of a size into one kit. But people who want 1.25 units modifiers don't want 1 and 1.5 units and vice versa. So maybe there could be a 1 and 1.5 units combined kit instead of separate kits.

Space bars should always be separate!

This design is too good to mees it up buy a wrong kit arrangement!

Again! We need the conventional standard kit for the masses, the rest is for us few individualists.

[matt3o]

I was asked to split ALPHA because people want PLUM sooo badly and they don't want the extra brown key. if it were for me I would remove plum altogether!

[Kurk]

"Cut" and "paste" but no "copy" key ? I'm surprised your squirrrel didn't include it !

"COPY" would really make kit 8 complete.

[7bit]

"Cut" and "paste" but no "copy" key ? I'm surprised your squirrrel didn't include it !

"COPY" would really make kit 8 complete.

I would not complain.

[matt3o]

Then modifiers 1, 1.25 and 1.5 units all into separate kits.

that alone would be 6 kits.

There should be separate Cursor keys and maybe WASD keys available. They always go well!

this wouldn't be an issue.

All of those 1 unit function keys (except F1-F12) should also go into a separate kit.

+ 2 kits (+1 for c64)

Again! We need the conventional standard kit for the masses, the rest is for us few individualists.

if we make 1 kit for anything separated, it makes no sense to make 1 kit for the full set. Just create a sort of "shortcut", if people say TKL, we know that we have to pick kit 1+2+x+y+...

If I were to sort keys personally I'd do 100 kits without problems. But I am not.

the only solution to reduce kits would be to remove plum.

[7bit]

The way oit is now, I need to buy kit 1 and 2, which are the same as TKL or STANDARD (or whatever it would be called).

Where is the improvement?

[matt3o]

the improvement is for people who want PLUM mods (but not brown) I've been asked for that. I don't give a damn to plum mods.

[matt3o]

Update on colors. Color codes are:

TBN, VAV, RBC, GFW and WA. They are all available

[mashby]

I don't know exactly but the full TKL keyboard seems to cost less than the old kit5 (plum mods) with twice the keys. Also, as I said many times, I can't ask my US proxy to sort too many keys/kits. We started with 3/4 kits and we are already at 9 + blanks.

If the issue is manpower, I'm happy to lend a hand sorting.

You clearly know more than me when it comes to group buys and ordering keys, but I'm new and thus don't know any better. Please don't hesitate to take advantage of that.

Seriously happy to help.

[matt3o]

7bit, is this what you wanted? I did it quickly it misses some keys, but just to get an idea.

kit-7bit.png (142 KiB) Viewed 7657 times

would you want to repeat the keys in the mods kit that are already present in the KIT2?

Seriously happy to help.

thanks, really appreciated. I'll get in touch with you if needed.

[pasph]

I would be fine with this configuration as well. I only have one single problem with this. You've left out the brown DCS ISO Enter…

I hope you simply forgot it. I don't want strange green Enter keys on my keyboard…

mmmh you are right, don't know where to put it though. have to think about it. I could place the 3 iso enters and shifts in a kit of their own... but iso enters are pretty expensive.

Yessssssssssssss the good old ISO kit
Expensive? don't worry no discounts for regional guys

[7bit]

.

[simkev]

Please dont make me have to buy these keys just to get the modifiers
Make me choose if I want 1.25u or 1.5u
Also, include 1u shift keys in some of the modder kits.

[Kurk]

I disagree with 7bit. I'd like to see 2x SHIFT, 2x ALT and 2x CTRL in the modder packs. If someone is going for weird-sized modifiers he probably needs at least 2x SHIFT.

[simkev]

I agree with Kurrk.
I think this would be optimal.
Please excuse my paint skills, how do you guys make your mock ups?

[matt3o]

this is going insane.

anyway I asked Melissa if there are any discounts on "standard" kits and she says there aren't. so that's good news.

I asked my proxy if he is available at managing so many kits + blanks. If he is available we can talk about it, otherwise I just have to find a good compromise. Sorry about this I'd like to handle sorting and shipment myself, but that doesn't seem really possible from Europe.

[pasph]

From a post of samwisekoi on the original GH thread
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=389 ... #msg757891
"But just for grins, could this be a simple GB? 87 keys, all white on blue, DSA profile, perhaps with a couple of extra locator bar keys for Colemak people and a blank 1x for Poker and GH60 peeps. (DSA keycaps can be moved to any row, so QWERTY and AZERTY can be (mostly) supported with an ANSI set.) So a total of 90 keycaps for everyone. No 10-key, ISO, Tsangan, Moogle, Race, etc.

Could this community get behind such a simple buy, or will we need to have a geometric explosion of options?"

[matt3o]

yeah and I even agreed on that.

[Piers Cawley]

7bit, is this what you wanted? I did it quickly it misses some keys, but just to get an idea.

kit-7bit.png

would you want to repeat the keys in the mods kit that are already present in the KIT2?

Now these breakdowns, I seriously like. Duplicating the common mods seems like it's going to make the most people happy, and I much prefer the modders kits broken up by size. I'd definitely take KIT1, the brown 1U modders kit, a couple of double stem 200P blanks and a handful of 1U blanks and end up very happy with very few wasted keys.

I can't really see what the issue is about 'standard' key sets, surely 1+2+an F-key set leaves one good to go. I can see a case for splitting KIT2 into 'TKL mods' + '10Keys', but that's a counsel of perfection. That way you can have a few standard bundles that are simply made up of two or three kits.

At some point you kind of have to accept that the best is the enemy of the good and stick your neck out and say "Right, these are the kits, these are the price breakdowns, and we'll take your orders over here." I'm a newbie here and I realise that 7bit has been doing these things very well for quite some time, but this set seems to be in some kind of sweet spot for complexity/utility.

[matt3o]

but this set seems to be in some kind of sweet spot for complexity/utility.

I'm sorry I don't agree, these are very complex kits for whom has to sort them (and for real noobs, infact we would have to add a TKL kit anyway). I like the idea too but I don't think this is gonna happen.

[7bit]

The point is for everybody who needs a 1.5 units TAB you need to buy both halves (1+2), so the split is useless. Same for people who need a 1unit ESC or arrow keys, or END, DEL etc.

These keys must be somewhere else as well to avoid this, otherwise it makes 0 sense!

[matt3o]

it is purely done to reduce the number of kits. I'm not saying that it makes sense, I'm saying that it's a necessary evil. I'm torn between people wanting one hundred kits and Ron (the proxy) asking for simplicity.

He just told me that: "I will need help for the sorting and shipping. I have a couple of options, neither of them are free."

[7bit]

Yes, but then make one TKL kit, one numpad kit and one big everything else kit/

These are only 3 and are about the same as what you've got now.

What is the point to have them separated, but some important keys are in there? Almost everybody neds ESC, TAB and the cursor keys for example.

[matt3o]

Yes, but then make one TKL kit, one numpad kit and one big everything else kit/

These are only 3 and are about the same as what you've got now.

I agree except for pricing since 80% would just get 1 kit. The problem is for who need more customization (I tell you that any layout we end up with I will get all the kits, so I'm not doing it for myself).

What is the point to have them separated, but some important keys are in there? Almost everybody neds ESC, TAB and the cursor keys for example.

In the original kit most would get just tkl and if you get the rookie mods you would cover 90% of the use cases. Everything else is for modders.

[7bit]

combined kits:
STD=TKL+NUMPAD+F1F12
TKL=BASE+CURSOR+F1F12
BASE=ALPHA+BASEMOD125

real kits:
NUMPAD (including Plum stuff and additional keys for numpads without 2 unit keys)
CURSOR
CURSOR/PLUM
F1F12
C64 (C64 nostlagia kit)
ALPHA (true ALPHA kit with all alphanumeric keys)
BASEMOD125 (all the modifiers keys for standard keyboards with 1.25 units)
BASEMOD125/PLUM (all the modifiers keys for standard keyboards with 1.25 units)
MOD100 all 1 unit modifiers and some extra keys in all the colors
MOD125 all 1.25 unit modifiers and some extra keys in all the colors
MOD150 all 1.5 unit modifiers and some extra keys in all the colors
SPECIAL all the rest.

blank kits and space bars as they are now, should be perfect.

[matt3o]

lovely.

but for a winkeyless you need: BASE+CURSOR+F1F12+ALPHA+BASEMOD125+MOD150 right?

BASEMOD125 has also 2 shift/caps/blahblahblah

I mean, just for 4 keys you have to get 20 more.

Edit: also if you want just a capslock/ctrl switch you get a hell lot of spare keys