refining a compact layout

[Trev]

Those are looking great

Now the problem is, do we want an onboard controller (like the GH60)? If that is the case, probably we need to have someone print the PCB for us.

I think this is the most professional approach. Perhaps we can find a PCB producer that will solder any surface mount components too? I think this would make it much easier and more approachable. Many people could solder switches, but surface mount it far too fragile (IMO). Better to have more members buying the kit (and not having to worry about coordinating soldering services, etc).

[vivalarevolución]

Thanks for the work on this. With the work on the DSA retro set and this compact layout, Matt3o has to be a nominee for Deskthority user of the year.

[matt3o]

I think this is the most professional approach. Perhaps we can find a PCB producer that will solder any surface mount components too? I think this would make it much easier and more approachable. Many people could solder switches, but surface mount it far too fragile (IMO). Better to have more members buying the kit (and not having to worry about coordinating soldering services, etc).

I don't know if we could find a service like that for 100/200 units. You can find it for say 10 prototypes or for production of 1000/10000, but not sure about medium/low quantities. Anyhow, if anyone has more info on this regard, please share. 7bit maybe?

[gmjhowe]

The advantage to using an external controller is that it reduces the need for for people to do surface mount soldering.

I reckon the extra cost would balance out either way. Its just a case of finding someone who would do that.

[matt3o]

great news guys!

I've found a company near here where I could have the case CNC milled. They do very high quality products but it shouldn't be horribly expensive. I've see some of their works and they are definitely better quality compared to the custom aluminum cases I've seen around.

Anyway they need a 3D model to make a final quote. Are you aware of any 3d model already available I could start from?

[7bit]

PCBwing.

Or just wait until I've got the time to search for a PCB manufacturer here in Europe.

[matt3o]

I'm working on the case design.

The idea is to make a case like this:



I'm trying to keep the case height as low as possible (every mm counts) and the design very simple to reduce production costs. Now I know how much all of you love plate mounted switches so I'm trying to work on a single-piece layout that could also hold a plate.

So this is the crazy idea:



Basically the screws that hold the plate (and the PCB) are screwed directly onto the case bottom instead of into a spacer. This should spare us approx 1-2mm of case height. The problem is that there's not end-of-travel for the screws so you have to be very careful or you risk to break pcb or switches.

the alternative would be to do something like the GH60, but the design is more complex (3 pieces).

ideas?

[tlt]

I think that would work. If the buffer is hard there is no risk of break anything by tighten the screw to much, there won't be any force on the switches and PCBs are really strong and flexible. Use a spacer under the screw head to even out the force some more and your good. You can let the screws go throw the case and mount feats on them too.

Just make sure you have somewhere to put the electronics. Even a teensy needs some space and if you want to put more stuff in you case, e.g. battery and bluetooth transceiver you need more space.

[matt3o]

If we use pcb mounted electronics that would be an issue. Of course a teensy takes a lot of space and in that case you have to design the chassis differently (taller on the back for example)

[gmjhowe]

Were you thinking of having it entirely flat then? Because I like the back of the keyboard to have a little height to it.

I guess you could add little legs to give that height, but design it to be as slim as possible.

[matt3o]

Were you thinking of having it entirely flat then? Because I like the back of the keyboard to have a little height to it.

I guess you could add little legs to give that height, but design it to be as slim as possible.

the case itself should be "flat", then we add feet for increased height. That helps to keep case cost low

edit:

[matt3o]

Tomorrow I'm going to send this to the CNC milling service



I hope 6 screws are enough to hold the plate, but being a compact keyboard should be sufficient. If you see something wrong or have suggestions, please tell.

[matt3o]

I've got the quote from the company and... it's not 100% accurate because the case is not yet final but it should be around €50... so dear friends...

[Trev]

I've got the quote from the company and... it's not 100% accurate because the case is not yet final but it should be around €50... so dear friends...

For Alu, that seems really reasonable

[matt3o]

indeed, the trick is to keep it simple.

[Okeg]

Well, that price is buyable/sellable
Maybe I should write a update on the alps topic now?

[matt3o]

sure, why not.

I asked them a quote for the plate too. It would be great if we could do everything in the same place

[Okeg]

Yea.

I'll try to make the update tomorrow, got a big test tomorrow, that's why i've been son unavailable.

[matt3o]

a quick update regarding the case. To the final cost I think we should add the "anodizing process" (or something like that). That would give a nice finish to the case. It can also be finished in silver, gold, black, blue and red if we want to. I think I'll try to have 2 prototypes done, they will be more expensive than the production units, but I have to be sure that everything fits.

To spare some euros I'm also trying to have the inside of the case not polished. I think that shouldn't be a problem.

[Okeg]

Great, I promise to make an update when the prototype is finished

[Jmneuv]

would you like a chassis like this?

That style should be great for the low cost approach;
the plate could sit on top of the rim, saving the thickness in case height; screwed on mounting guides (tiny screws) on the plate underside could provide for a more solid fit;

I'm liking the "smaller right side" based layouts a lot!

[matt3o]

I'm waiting for the case prototypes. I'm having 2 or 3 of them. I'll post them as soon as I get them.

In the meantime I'm trying to work on the PCB but it's more complex than I thought. Is there anyone that could work on that? Even modifying the GH60 layout?

[matt3o]

another quick update regarding the case. Unfortunately cnc milling services tend to put me way down in the queue being this a very small gig for them. So this is taking more time than expected (plus Easter holidays).

Anyway I'm also going to have a "sandwich" prototype done in Alu or even Stainless steel.

This is just to say that the project is not dead. I'm wondering if it could be a good idea to kickstarter this, with a big budget on our shoulder it would be easier to deal with manufacturers.

[ideus]

would you like a chassis like this?

This is really awesome, where it can be bought?

[matt3o]

it can't maybe on OTD if you speak Korean

[Trev]

As I've been discussing with Matteo, this is my favourite Mac layout so far:


Standard Mac modifiers for the bottom row, the same as current gen compact Apple keyboards. This is really hard to find on mechanical keyboards. The left function would control a layer for display brightness, volume, media keys, window management, etc.

I suppose the left ctrl will become caps-lock, but I'm hesitant to even give caps-lock the privilege of being printed on a keycap.

[vivalarevolución]

As I've been discussing with Matteo, this is my favourite Mac layout so far:


Standard Mac modifiers for the bottom row, the same as current gen compact Apple keyboards. This is really hard to find on mechanical keyboards. The left function would control a layer for display brightness, volume, media keys, window management, etc.

I suppose the left ctrl will become caps-lock, but I'm hesitant to even give caps-lock the privilege of being printed on a keycap.

I really like this design for a Mac as well. I agree with you on the Caps lock. Put caps lock on the function layer somewhere, perhaps on function layer of control.

I have a few suggestions:

2. Remove the control on the bottom row so you can increase size of other modifiers
3. Reduce the size of the spacebar so a function key can be included on the right bottom row. I understand it may be difficult to find a widely available spacebar of that size.
4. For the left and right modifiers, perhaps go with 1.25x function key/1x option key/1.25x Command key, if there is enough room. Of course, keep command key next to spacebar on both sides.
5. Put page up/page down/home/end on function layer of arrow keys, just like the MacBook keyboard.

[matt3o]

This would be my suggestion

[vivalarevolución]

Also I understand that layout from Trev designed to mirror the current Apple keyboard, but even that layout could use some improvement.

[vivalarevolución]

This would be my suggestion

Awesome. Almost what I was thinking, minus a right function key and smaller alt/option keys. You would have to abandon a 60% case, but I think you already decided to do that?

i know this suggestion is a pipe dream, but what about somehow integrating a big-ass enter with that design? Backspace would have to get moved from it's position.

Ok, I'm just getting excited here, but what about splitting the spacebar so the right thumb is for spacebar, left thumb is for backspace? Then we could have a big-ass enter! As a Kinesis/Maltron user, I assure you the adjustment to a thumb key backspace is not that difficult, although such a feature would give this keyboard a "weird" factor and reduce the initial appeal.