Another browser bites the dust

[Muirium]

Having got aboard Macs in 2003, and being obsoleted real quick once the Intels came out, I'm super cautious about new stuff. But the sad truth is computers are treated as disposable items more now than ever. Apple's taken the high end from the Windows crowd but they haven't much changed their upgrade cycle. The gear's just more recyclable now.

And so goes the web. Everyone browses on new kit these days.

Pisses me off right at the core, as a vintage enthusiast. But what are you going to do? Turn your back in the Internet? Print to dot matrix and keep those floppies mailing?

[seebart]

you Apple folk, forking over big bucks for those funny named products...retina Thunderbolt. The last Apple I used was beige and had a powerpc logo on it!

Yeah I remember when Apple went Intel. People were outraged. Some bravely speculated Apple would go AMD and therefore somehow not sell out.

[Muirium]

Some people are always idiots. The AMD guys weren't alone: there were Itanium fans like Dvorak too. I remember the ones who proclaimed the iPhone would drive Apple out of business. There's an audience for daft shit like that, and so it is always written.

[matt3o]

life's so short... you should definitely use whatever makes you happy. I find silly some apple fanboys arguments (such as using apple software only for the sake of a tidy UI), but I totally respect that... if that is what makes them in peace with the world.

The original argument was: another OSS goes closed source to get more money. I use multiple browsers, Firefox is the second best but I try to use it as much as possible. My idea is that all software should be open source (NOT FREE, just open source). Closed source is a cancer to human intellect not to mention privacy and security.

[SL89]

That touches on larger issues (like Copyright, Intellectual 'Properties') and other concepts that are at work as well. Without trying to sound like the tin-foil hat guy. Isn't it in the best interests for larger profitable companies to reject OSS (and FOSS) on all of those grounds?

[Muirium]

If we lived in a world where everyone was happy at the commandline, we wouldn't have closed source browsers. Everyone would build from source, and stroke their beards as they did.

Meanwhile…

[seebart]

My idea is that all software should be open source (NOT FREE, just open source). Closed source is a cancer to human intellect not to mention privacy and security.

I could not agree more. Although I do use closed source without thinking about it. A nice exapmle is Android. Google praise themselfs for their great open source platform but don't really like ports like cyanogenmod. They tolerate it because anything else would look bad. Also I'm not sure how open source the google apps are. They make up a large part.

[Muirium]

When's Google opensourcing its search engine?

Closed source is evil. But a kind of evil that can build great things. Like pollution heavy industrialisation and slavery! It's a step along the way.

[matt3o]

If we lived in a world where everyone was happy at the commandline, we wouldn't have closed source browsers. Everyone would build from source, and stroke their beards as they did.

Meanwhile…

and here's the black or white

That touches on larger issues (like Copyright, Intellectual 'Properties') and other concepts that are at work as well. Without trying to sound like the tin-foil hat guy. Isn't it in the best interests for larger profitable companies to reject OSS (and FOSS) on all of those grounds?

apart from the fact that they make large use of F/OSS (like I said, often without contributing in any way to the project... the xbox dashboard uses some of my OSS code... they didn't even took the time to send me an email)

[Muirium]

Yup. I have respect for Stallman's objection to "open source" vs. free software. Open source alone is not the panacea it's so often made out to be. That's Free Software's job!

[webwit]

Ah. Philosophy. Real freedom is the ability to use bsd/mit over gpl in order to kill babies and puppies.

[matt3o]

Ah. Philosophy. Real freedom is the ability to use bsd/mit over gpl in order to kill babies and puppies.

... an unicorns!

[Muirium]

Unicorns are tougher than you think. The bastards keep on coming back.



(The slower the computer the more pugnacious I get. You can tell I'm Scottish! Punching is how we handle anger management.)

[andrewjoy]

My idea is that all software should be open source (NOT FREE, just open source). Closed source is a cancer to human intellect not to mention privacy and security.

I could not agree more. Although I do use closed source without thinking about it. A nice exapmle is Android. Google praise themselfs for their great open source platform but don't really like ports like cyanogenmod. They tolerate it because anything else would look bad. Also I'm not sure how open source the google apps are. They make up a large part.

There is a reason cynogen does not come by default with the Google apps , that's good as i can then just install the store and leave the rest of the crap.

I think GPL is a great idea , i always looks for a solution that's GPL first, but as long as the licence is fair and does not screw you over then i think its ok. As i have said before, stalmans idea is a good idea, we may never get there but its good to have something to aim towards.

On the other end you have microsoft doing some scary shit with windows 10 turning it into a service, i will prob get my free upgrade ( got win7 pro off Amazon for 23 quid ) but as soon as windows is something you have to subscribe to ( i totally see them doing this ) then i am going back to win7 and staying there. Say what you will about apple but there OS is free now, and even when it was not it was one version ( plus server before it became an app) and it was a fair price.
Microsoft on the other hand 100 versions of each OS all with slightly differnt capability and with slightly different rules about what you can do with them. Has anyone ever tried to buy RDP CALS for windows server ? I have, its a total mess , it was hard enough to even find where to buy them let alone what i had to buy or what was the correct one to make sure i was not breaking the licence. Contrast that to apple remote desktop, go on the store buy it done !

[SL89]

The original apps were originally and proudly OSS, but as time goes on Messenger has been replaced my Hangouts (not open) and even the browser by Chrome. The last update to the vanilla browser last time I checked was 2013, Google slowly scales up and then replaces the OSS parts with proprietary software with each version of android.

[andrewjoy]

But there are open alternatives, the old messages app is still updated as it was forked( and i still use it as hangouts is terrible!) I was also under impression the android open sorce browser ( the one that comes with AOSP version of android ) was still updated.

[bhtooefr]

Also, Chromium is available for Android, too, if you want an updated open source browser.

[scottc]

The original apps were originally and proudly OSS, but as time goes on Messenger has been replaced my Hangouts (not open) and even the browser by Chrome. The last update to the vanilla browser last time I checked was 2013, Google slowly scales up and then replaces the OSS parts with proprietary software with each version of android.

This has basically been happening since Jean-Baptiste Queru left Google, or at least to a much greater extent. Shame, really.

[SL89]

@bhtooefr I am still very suspect of Chromium being actually as 'Google-Free' as they say it is. Mostly because of the nature of it's developers. Almost all of the work is being done by Google Employees and Google's track record is rather suspect.

@andrewjoy that might well be true, but I was speaking more towards Googles method of getting it out there then swapping it out. I know even the ancient Audio app was forked and is still developed.

@scottc aye, and it seems to become more prevalent as time goes on

I use Chrome, Chromium, and Google products frequently, but I am not above acknowledging the fact that Google is contributing (in a way that is detrimental) to F/OSS projects and the culture that surrounds it and whatnot.

Edit: Google's version of open source is far removed from the Bazaar and the Cathedral and is something of a Gated Community... or a Penal Colony. Which ever metaphor you like better.

[Findecanor]

I tend to use Chromium mostly because I'm lazy... I have been thinking of downloading source and starting hacking, but it is good enough that I can live with the quirks.

[Spikebolt]

I use Chrome and I enjoy it. I don't really care if Google knows everything I search or browse.

[seebart]

I use Chrome and I enjoy it. I don't really care if Google knows everything I search or browse.

That's a valid opinion since it's your choice. A lot of users argue that they don't feel they need to support such a powerfull company like google any further. In other words google is big enough already. But they do have very efficient software solutions. Some of that "efficiency" is not so obvious to the average user.

[Muirium]

Yup. Looking forward to DuckDuckGo making a browser… I'd consider that one.

(Kidding. I'll be happy enough if DDG's still around in a few years time. I prefer their search to Google's for all the obvious privacy reasons. But make no mistake: browsers are the preserve of the big boys, nowadays.)

[SL89]

>browsers are the preserve of the big boys

Absolutely, Chrome is the single best example of that. It's like Chevrolet giving you a car to find out they actually own all of the gas stations in your area. And the mechanics. And the roads. And the parking lots...

[matt3o]

if you consider that google owns a DNA mapping company, the picture is pretty scary...

[seebart]

if you consider that google owns a DNA mapping company, the picture is pretty scary...

that whole situation has been looking scary for a while.

Yup. Looking forward to DuckDuckGo making a browser… I'd consider that one.

then threy better come up with a better name for their browser!

[matt3o]

Vivaldi looks promising

[SL89]

I'm using Vivaldi as a browser atm, it's chromium wrapped up to be a spiritual successor to Opera 12 where Opera become a Chrome clone. Tab stacking is where its at B)

edit: get out of my head matt3o

[Spikebolt]

is that an upsidedown Adobe logo ?

[Muirium]

Yeah, DuckDuckGo has two problems. One is its name. But the other one is worse: everyone already uses Google.

I'd say Google is a more powerful, and worrying, influence on the world now than Microsoft ever was at its peak. Both are evil. But Google thinks bigger.