Best modern keyboard or company

[92u]

Il nominate gateron boyZ

[Wodan]

Gateron is a previous winner of this category and cannot be nominated

[davkol]

Wait, what? I don't see that anywhere in the rules.

[Wodan]

That's pretty much a dead giveaway. You can't win an award for the same reason twice. Convince them to make a keyboard and nominate that if you must.
results-f94/best-keyboard-company-or-br ... 12367.html

Let me be a little more specific before this becomes more controversial. They won the award for:

Gateron • Gateron rocked the keyswitch and keycap markets by introducing high quality Cherry MX switch clones and PBT keycaps.

If there is a new achievement they deserve to be nominated for, I am all ears.

[davkol]

The OP only reads:

Please suggest nominees for the best modern keyboard or company active in 2016.

The nomination of Cherry shouldn't be accepted by your token, esp. if the reasoning is "being the reference", because there's no new achievement involved. Cooler Master's "active community involvement" isn't anything new either (and I'd argue, that their presence in the community is on the decline).

Now, I'd agree, that 92u hasn't fulfilled the requirement to "provide a short explanation for each suggestion."

[Wodan]

You're misunderstanding me, I'll try again in simple English:

Gateron won this award in 2015 for keycaps & switches.
Nominate Gateron for something other than keycaps and switches.
Or name a switch- or keycap innovation since the last rewards that justifies a nomination.

[davkol]

You're misunderstanding me. Where's the rule, that a company cannot be nominated, because they won the award last year? Because it appears, that you've made it up on the spot.

[Wodan]

You're misunderstanding me. Where's the rule, that a company cannot be nominated, because they won the award last year? Because it appears, that you've made it up on the spot.

I am not misunderstanding you. You have switched back to your old argument after you realized that your previous post was crap. We're back at your initial concern that I already adressed:

That's pretty much a dead giveaway. You can't win an award for the same reason twice. Convince them to make a keyboard and nominate that if you must.
results-f94/best-keyboard-company-or-br ... 12367.html

Let me be a little more specific before this becomes more controversial. They won the award for:

Gateron • Gateron rocked the keyswitch and keycap markets by introducing high quality Cherry MX switch clones and PBT keycaps.

If there is a new achievement they deserve to be nominated for, I am all ears.

I will gladly add it to the rules if that makes you feel better. Feel free to challenge any exiting nomination based on this principle.


Edit: aaand done:

EDIT: Since there has been some controversy about this, previous winners of this category cannot be nominated for the same reason they already won an award for. Please include a short explanation why a potential candidate has become eligible for the same award twice and I will review it with the other DTA mods.

You can now invest your energy into coming up with a short explanation explaining the reason why you believe Gateron has earned this reward again since their last win, 12 months ago.

[davkol]

I haven't realized my objection was crap. I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted your claim as if it was about nominations, but there's something else, that stinks: you're literally making up a new rule on the go, halfway through the nomination stage.

Of course an award can be won for the same reason twice. IBM buckling springs were voted to be the best switches in 2013 and 2015.

[ohaimark]

OK, the Kingpin is weighing in.

The rule isn't arbitrary. Certain other categories, such as best keyswitch, are handled a little bit differently. Both vintage and modern switches can be nominated for the category, which is why IBM BS switches could win multiple times. In other words, the category isn't limited by time or specific qualifiers.

The entire point of the Best modern keyboard or company category is to recognize modern achievements. We limit the category by recognizing specific achievements in a given year, thus it is limited by time and specific qualifiers. If the company doesn't differentiate itself somehow from a previous year, we aren't interested in considering it as a candidate.

So let's get to Gateron. Has it created any new products? Has it done anything noteworthy/new since last year's win? If so, nominate it for that reason. If not, it is ineligible. Pretty fair, reasonable, and simple.

Cherry can be nominated because they released a new keyboard, for example. New switches, too. I'm not fond of their nomination as "the reference," but if they haven't been nominated for that reason in previous years it still sort of works.

[davkol]

Then I challenge the nomination of Cherry "for being the reference", because their new switches/keyboards are hardly a reference.

edit: Ha, ohaimark's ninja-edit mentions Cherry now.

[ohaimark]

I'm going to allow it because Cherry hasn't been nominated "for being the reference" in previous years. In addition, they have done some new stuff with their product lines this year.

Edit: I ninja edit a lot.

[davkol]

Cherry was nominated in 2014:

And Cherry? If we have modern mechanical keyboards we must ONLY thank Cherry...

[ohaimark]

But did they win? Nope. Thus they can compete again for a similar, if not exactly the same, reason. My last post was poorly phrased.

results-f85/best-keyboard-company-or-br ... t9377.html

So, to clarify:

If a company is nominated for X one year and wins, they cannot win another year with X.
They can, however, be nominated again for X if they don't win.
Lastly, they can always be nominated for ∆X (change in X) or a new reason.

[Wodan]

I think davkol has resorted to trolling now. Cherry can be nominated until they win. That's the point where I would like to see some REAL progress. They have launched several new keyboards (check category name) and switches this year (being an active company) and your opinion about them doesn't count when it comes to the nomination.

Feel free to express your opinion by not voting for Cherry or write a passionate entry in the election threads why you think Cherry should not win.

[davkol]

In that case, I'd highly recommend phrasing the rules explicitly and beforehand, because this is a mess. Esp. considering that there were basically no such rules previously, and companies like Tipro or IBM were nominated repeatedly.

[ohaimark]

We will next year. And this isn't a mess. You're the only person who's making a problem out of this.

[kbdfr]

In that case, I'd highly recommend phrasing the rules explicitly and beforehand […]

The following rule was in the OP from the outset:

[…]
Nomination rules:
[…]
Individually modified/customized keyboards (ex. […]), companies (ex. "Cherry"), and mass produced modern keyboards (ex. […]) are welcome in this category. […]

[davkol]

No word about novel reasons for nomination, though.

[kbdfr]

No word about novel reasons for nomination, though.

[…]
Nomination rules:
Please suggest nominees for the best modern keyboard or company active in 2016. You must provide a short explanation for each suggestion. […]

[davkol]

No word about novel reasons for nomination, though.

[kbdfr]

No word about novel reasons for nomination, though.

[…]
So, to clarify:

If a company is nominated for X one year and wins, they cannot win another year with X.
They can, however, be nominated again for X if they don't win.
Lastly, they can always be nominated for ∆X (change in X) or a new reason.

I would like to nominate Cherry - for being the reference.

They're still dominating the switch world to such a point that virtually anything new takes them as a reference, and the design of their thousand-years-old 3000 model is again such a reference that they themselves still stick to it each time they develop an even crappier version of it - from G80 to G81, from G81 to G83.

[ohaimark]

That wasn't in the rules originally, which is a fair point. It was known to an extent in the DTA Team, but we didn't put it down explicitly on a per-category basis.

[derzemel]

can I nominate a keyboard if the company has already been nominated?

I would like to nominate the Novatouch, for bringing Topre to the masses.

[Ray]

I can understand wholeheartedly when somebody complains about changing rules in a competition. But this isn't a competition. Nobody tried to do anything in particular to win this.

This is about an award given by a community. Volunteers from that community organize this. Since they are volunteers, don't expect them to be ready with perfect rules when it starts. Be fair, we are still in the very early stages of the awards, of course they can change anything as long as the community is fine with the changes!

[ohaimark]

can I nominate a keyboard if the company has already been nominated?

I would like to nominate the Novatouch, for bringing Topre to the masses.

Yes, I think you can.

[lot_lizard]

I can understand wholeheartedly when somebody complains about changing rules in a competition. But this isn't a competition. Nobody tried to do anything in particular to win this.

This is about an award given by a community. Volunteers from that community organize this. Since they are volunteers, don't expect them to be ready with perfect rules when it starts. Be fair, we are still in the very early stages of the awards, of course they can change anything as long as the community is fine with the changes!

Couldn't agree with this statement more. Not to murky the point, but I'm not sure why members of DTA team are ineligible either. This isn't some lottery that needs to be monitored by Price Waterhouse Coopers, and we would have trust as community that something isn't "rigged". If someone won something unfairly, it would be pretty hard to ever look at it not feel guilt. It's certainly not turning into cash prize since selling a Wingnut is understood by all three communities to be a bad move. We don't moderate here in general, so why punish the DTA for helping run the show if they contributed during the year in worthwhile ways?!? We have trust. If not for this year, please consider that for next

[ohaimark]

Because we all want to run this as professionally as possible. We don't even want a sliver of doubt regarding the award outcomes.

I talked the DTA team into an honorable mentions section in the DTA news page. If you have any nominations that involve DTA team members, please post them in the News announcement topic and I'll add them.

[Wodan]

can I nominate a keyboard if the company has already been nominated?

I would like to nominate the Novatouch, for bringing Topre to the masses.

Is it okay if I just add this to the existing Coolermaster nomination?
Are sure you don't want to nominate them for taking away Topre from the masses again?

[ohaimark]

That has already happened in The *Ping*.