Best vintage keyboard without spending life's savings?

[jadontalis]

This one’s my daily driver. It’s an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK).
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Dang that thing is a beaut! Love the rainbow logo on it too. Apple really fell off man they used to make such cool stuff.

[DiscoMike]

I am so glad I can help with your spending decisions !!!!

[keycap]

With Alps you're looking at an almost definite restore job, or you're going to be let down. Clones age even more poorly, same can be said for vintage MX clones. You can get lucky and find a real gem of a board that was kept in good condition every now and again though.
Can't go wrong with a Model M.. that is, IF you get lucky and don't have to bolt mod it to get it working. In my experience, this problem isn't as common as it's made out to be, but it's always possible. Model F's are sweet if you can get used to the layout, but the foam will eventually need gutted and replaced (not the most fun thing in the world.)
Vintage Cherry keyboards can be cool but I rarely find those where I'm at. I also know some people hate their build quality, but I've yet to experience one with that problem, personally.
Space Invaders, pretty much the same as Alps, you'll want to find them in good condition. They're at least common here in the US.
Futabas are interesting and I think they get too much hate. Similar to buckling springs in feel, unique sound, just sometimes they're a bit wonky.
Avoid most old foam and foil boards. I've run into some that were pretty nice, but those are few and far between.
Some old dome boards can be great if the thought of it doesn't drive you up a wall..

Just some general, hopefully-not-biased advice for anyone starting at ground zero that I've learned over the years.

[DiscoMike]

That is not a bad influence....

That is what I call a solid plan for all to live by !!!

[Green Maned Lion]

The big problem, really, is that you'll realise 104 keys is good, but 122 keys are better!

[przemo]

This one’s my daily driver. It’s an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK).
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I can get one AEK2 M3501 for about 100EUR in pretty good shape. Are they really so good ? Can I use it simple with normal PC/Vintage PC. I didn't decide it yet, if I will buy it so am looking for some opinion. Isn't the price to high? It comes with original apple mouse. It has polish keys but it is no problem for me. Thx

[wedgeoflemon]

I can't really tell you if AEK2s are good since it depends a lot on whether you like the switches/sound and the look. However, I have a few AEK I/2s and like them. I don't know how much they cost over there normally but 100EUR sounds a little steep for an AEK2 as they are normally quite common.

You can use them on a normal PC but you will need an ADB to USB converter or similar. I use my AEK I/2s on modern PCs and they work fine. I am actually typing this on my PC using an AEK I now.

I've seen people bundling old apple one button mice with AEK keyboards and selling them in one lot to try and get a better price. I've seen lots of vintage apple one button mice on ebay which seemed to stay there with no buyer for ages. My guess is they aren't very popular and this was done deliberately to try to get rid of the mouse.

I'd steer clear of this and try to find an AEK 2 sold on its own. Shiny key caps also mean they are somewhat worn off. Since the keycaps (apart from the space bar) are PBT, they really shouldn't wear till shiny unless the keyboard is very worn. None of mine have keycaps like that.

A few hints on what key switches you get based on the label at the back :

US model - no "S" in a box in the bottom right = salmon alps switches
US model - "S" in a box in the bottom right = cream alps switches (most common)
JP model - mitsumi switches

I'm unsure about EU models as I don't have access to those here though.

Good luck!

[modelf]

(Big version of the photo)

The keyboard currently sitting here is a 1981 IBM Model F/XT, unmodded, which was $99 on eBay, with a $30 XT-to-USB converter from Amazon. The whole setup was under $150 with taxes and shipping included.

Only thing I've done is lightly clean the case top and some of the keys with water (very lightly so as to not affect the steel plate), and update the converter to Soarer's 1.12. I use a utility called KeyTweak to remap a few keys... easier than QMK.

[AudreyGB]

I suppose mushy isn’t the right word for it, more muted maybe in sound? I was comparing them to model fs and to some extent beam springs, along with various keyboard/ switch reviews of that era. I haven’t interacted with older than a late 90’s rubber dome and 2010-present mechanicals. So take my uninformed opinions/ comments with a grain of salt there. I believe you more than I believe myself on this haha.

The only ones I can have a real opinion on are Cherry mx variants and I hate them all except for razer’s early greens and maybe blues with a some modding but that still doesn’t solve the root issue that they just lack certain feel and sound by design.

I understand the online reviews can make it sound like beam Springs and model F's are just way superior to the model m, but I don't find this to be the case at all personally. Noise is a real Factor in usability as well. I recently picked up my first model f, and while the key feel is really nice, the board is literally too loud to be useful for me. I'm going to be sticking to model M's. I've just purchased my third m122, which is my preferred board for the layout that I find very practical having both extra keys, the cross nav, and the left hand array of f keys, which I have mapped to a variety of functions that I find very useful and ergonomic. Well this also goes against the grain of what people tend to say online, I personally prefer the later blue badge models for the key feel that is lighter in comparison to at least the one silver badge m122 that I have tried out, which I own and have used regularly, before switching back to the blue badge as my preferred model m.

For me, well I like the Vintage appeal and the durability of classic keyboards, a large part of their appeal is also in usability, so non-standard layouts offer a lot to me. That's not to say that it is where functions are on the board, but rather what physical buttons are offered and where they're located. With qmk you can basically make the board do nearly whatever you would like it to do. For instance, with a model m that has the standard layout with no lgui key, that would really impede usability for me, aside from the fact that you can easily remap keys to for instance put LGUI where control is and put control where capslock is.

Another thing I like about model M's and other IBM boards is that swapping keycaps is very simple, as the board construction uses a curved PCB that allows for keys to be appropriately placed and staggered without needing the key caps to differ based on where it is on the board. I've moved away from using qwerty layouts, but I do still look at the board frequently when typing, apparently. So I find it very helpful that with a model M for instance I'm able to switch from QWERTY to Colemak DH and replace the key caps to have the Legends actually match the key function. This would not be possible with something like the Zenith Z150, which has stepped keycaps (I believe that's the right term).

The Model M122 for me is an absolute powerhouse in terms of productivity, and it's a delight to type on. The buckling spring switches are still the best switch I've tried, and that includes comparing to my Model F XT, Z150, and others. Honestly I felt I had to get a Model F based on all the hype around them, but unless I have headphones on and am listening to music, it's distractingly loud, and it makes it actually impossible to even have phone calls, which is a huge usability drawback for me as someone who spends most of the day on the computer and a good bit of that on the phone at times as well. I'll still spend time getting used to the F, and maybe it will grow on me, but I think the Model M does everything that I need from buckling springs. Still, drawbacks there are the noise, for some applications, the poor suitability of the buckling spring to gaming, and the lack of n-key rollover.

I've got a Northgate Omnikey Plus on the way. When that arrives I think it has potential to be my ultimate productivity board, with loads of keys for creating custom functionality and layers, and quieter switches that click but aren't so loud as to disrupt others around or make phone calls difficult. I don't think anything will replace my M122s, but I do want something I can use on calls without being too loud, and something I can use for gaming. I may also turn a Z150 into my gaming board. But I have not yet got a converter working for it, due to its protocol differences compared to other classic boards that are widely adapter.

[AudreyGB]

With Alps you're looking at an almost definite restore job, or you're going to be let down. Clones age even more poorly, same can be said for vintage MX clones. You can get lucky and find a real gem of a board that was kept in good condition every now and again though.
Can't go wrong with a Model M.. that is, IF you get lucky and don't have to bolt mod it to get it working. In my experience, this problem isn't as common as it's made out to be, but it's always possible. Model F's are sweet if you can get used to the layout, but the foam will eventually need gutted and replaced (not the most fun thing in the world.)
Vintage Cherry keyboards can be cool but I rarely find those where I'm at. I also know some people hate their build quality, but I've yet to experience one with that problem, personally.
Space Invaders, pretty much the same as Alps, you'll want to find them in good condition. They're at least common here in the US.
Futabas are interesting and I think they get too much hate. Similar to buckling springs in feel, unique sound, just sometimes they're a bit wonky.
Avoid most old foam and foil boards. I've run into some that were pretty nice, but those are few and far between.
Some old dome boards can be great if the thought of it doesn't drive you up a wall..

Just some general, hopefully-not-biased advice for anyone starting at ground zero that I've learned over the years.

I've just picked up a Powersource Keycat II that has Futaba switches. They're pretty curious to me. The strong tactility on the upstroke is a bit odd. But I don't dislike the feel. I'm wondering if they might benefit from cleaning up or otherwise conditioning them though. Any thoughts on this?

[Green Maned Lion]

I suppose mushy isn’t the right word for it, more muted maybe in sound? I was comparing them to model fs and to some extent beam springs, along with various keyboard/ switch reviews of that era. I haven’t interacted with older than a late 90’s rubber dome and 2010-present mechanicals. So take my uninformed opinions/ comments with a grain of salt there. I believe you more than I believe myself on this haha.

The only ones I can have a real opinion on are Cherry mx variants and I hate them all except for razer’s early greens and maybe blues with a some modding but that still doesn’t solve the root issue that they just lack certain feel and sound by design.

I understand the online reviews can make it sound like beam Springs and model F's are just way superior to the model m, but I don't find this to be the case at all personally. Noise is a real Factor in usability as well. I recently picked up my first model f, and while the key feel is really nice, the board is literally too loud to be useful for me. I'm going to be sticking to model M's. I've just purchased my third m122, which is my preferred board for the layout that I find very practical having both extra keys, the cross nav, and the left hand array of f keys, which I have mapped to a variety of functions that I find very useful and ergonomic. Well this also goes against the grain of what people tend to say online, I personally prefer the later blue badge models for the key feel that is lighter in comparison to at least the one silver badge m122 that I have tried out, which I own and have used regularly, before switching back to the blue badge as my preferred model m.

For me, well I like the Vintage appeal and the durability of classic keyboards, a large part of their appeal is also in usability, so non-standard layouts offer a lot to me. That's not to say that it is where functions are on the board, but rather what physical buttons are offered and where they're located. With qmk you can basically make the board do nearly whatever you would like it to do. For instance, with a model m that has the standard layout with no lgui key, that would really impede usability for me, aside from the fact that you can easily remap keys to for instance put LGUI where control is and put control where capslock is.

Another thing I like about model M's and other IBM boards is that swapping keycaps is very simple, as the board construction uses a curved PCB that allows for keys to be appropriately placed and staggered without needing the key caps to differ based on where it is on the board. I've moved away from using qwerty layouts, but I do still look at the board frequently when typing, apparently. So I find it very helpful that with a model M for instance I'm able to switch from QWERTY to Colemak DH and replace the key caps to have the Legends actually match the key function. This would not be possible with something like the Zenith Z150, which has stepped keycaps (I believe that's the right term).

The Model M122 for me is an absolute powerhouse in terms of productivity, and it's a delight to type on. The buckling spring switches are still the best switch I've tried, and that includes comparing to my Model F XT, Z150, and others. Honestly I felt I had to get a Model F based on all the hype around them, but unless I have headphones on and am listening to music, it's distractingly loud, and it makes it actually impossible to even have phone calls, which is a huge usability drawback for me as someone who spends most of the day on the computer and a good bit of that on the phone at times as well. I'll still spend time getting used to the F, and maybe it will grow on me, but I think the Model M does everything that I need from buckling springs. Still, drawbacks there are the noise, for some applications, the poor suitability of the buckling spring to gaming, and the lack of n-key rollover.

I've got a Northgate Omnikey Plus on the way. When that arrives I think it has potential to be my ultimate productivity board, with loads of keys for creating custom functionality and layers, and quieter switches that click but aren't so loud as to disrupt others around or make phone calls difficult. I don't think anything will replace my M122s, but I do want something I can use on calls without being too loud, and something I can use for gaming. I may also turn a Z150 into my gaming board. But I have not yet got a converter working for it, due to its protocol differences compared to other classic boards that are widely adapter.

I don't mind the noise, but interesting aside:

My wife's not a keyboard person; she does all her computer related stuff on her phone. But she actually thinks my F122 is quieter than my M122s, at least given that she is not in the room with me. Sound is a fascinating thing, including how it travels. I don't use headphones, incidentally; I have a Yamaha R-N600A hooked up to a pair of older Yamaha speakers that can be driven (among other things) by my computer.