Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions

[matt3o]

I feel dirty saying this, but I will probably enjoy the "clackiness" of the switches

don't be! that's what sold it to me

[emdude]

Very nice to be able to see this. The switches look neat, but as others have said, the case construction seems to be the weakest part of the keyboard. I understand that this is just a prototype though.

I will be watching for case improvements and (hopefully) the development of tactile or clicky versions of the switches.

[smudgers]

Why is a hard wired cable a plus?
I for myself like plugable more as I can use my own cables

Because first impressions matter. Based on aesthetics, low price, and the fact that it's made in China I have no confidence that any detachable hub specified for this board will be durable enough over the lifetime of the keyboard.

I'm not saying that China can't produce good products; I'm saying that you need to watch them like a hawk. You can ask Ellipse and Matias about this.

[Phenix]

Backlighting is quite nice. In RGB even better..

each for his own.

[Engicoder]

I received mine yesterday and have been typing on it for about 8 hours. After this short experience, here is my initial review of the board:

Pros:

• - Very smooth key feel
  - Very stable slider. Has very little wobble even at the top.
  - Stabilizers work well

Cons:

• - Space bar stabilizer comes apart when removing space bar.
  - Issues fitting SA space bar. Severe binding due to distance between stabilizer posts (too short)
  - On bamboo board, mod stabilizers pull out with key removal.
  - Rattle and clackiness - this has been noted and is being addressed.

Subjective observations:

• - Slight catch at bottom of keystroke when pressing below center of keystroke.
  - Activation point seems low.
  - Key travel feels slightly long (may be due to low activation point)
  - Spring feels very springy. Hard to describe.

Overall, I like this board. Green alps instilled in me an appreciation for nice linears. This board has potential to be a great modern linear board. The stability of the sliders coupled with 70g springs could make this a perfect platform for SA keycaps. With a fix for the cheap clackiness and rattle of the keys, and possibly the use of cherry stabilizers could make this very nice.

[smudgers]

I don't see how RGB is a downside. I really despise backlit keyboards but you can just keep the LEDs off...

I'm sure this will be up for endless debate but for my personal reasons:

I've never typed on a hall effect keyboard but the "hype train" is that these are even more reliable/durable than boards like Topre. To that point I would like none of the excess electrical baggage on board. Maybe I am getting old but I feel like sometimes I'm becoming more alienated by the world. For instance touch screens in cars. WTF. WHY???

Also, this will sound offensive but I'm not a child. I feel like these RGB boards are marketed towards children. Or perhaps it's not that and maybe I've witnessed a cesspool of cheap Chinese backlit keyboards invading the market with extremely terrible ugly fonts.

I hope I didn't offend anyone - these are just the ramblings of an old man.

[zslane]

- Issues fitting SA space bar. Severe binding due to distance between stabilizer posts (too short)

This is a deal killer for me if SA keysets aren't usable for any reason.

[XMIT]

Why is a hard wired cable a plus?
I for myself like plugable more as I can use my own cables

I addressed this earlier but the answer was buried at the end of another post. I'll post the answer again here:

"The reason for this is that the cable is soldered to the PCB and then the solder joints are epoxy coated. This provides waterproofing that a connector could not."

The manufacturer cares quite a lot about their promise of a waterproof keyboard.

[XMIT]

Wow, some people really don't like the backlighting. I'll talk to the manufacturer about this. There are two solutions I see here:

1. Hardware fix: offer boards without backlighting. Pro: less expensive, possibly. Con: another variant of a part could lead to increased cost or at least no cost savings.

2. Software fix: persist the "LED off" setting in NVRAM. You see the LEDs on once, turn them off, and then never see them on again. This is more likely.

[XMIT]

- Issues fitting SA space bar. Severe binding due to distance between stabilizer posts (too short)

This is a deal killer for me if SA keysets aren't usable for any reason.

Oh, excellent catch Engicoder, I had not yet thrown my SA Retro set on the board. I'll see if I can reproduce this at home.

I'll break out the calipers for this one. My guess is that Cherry gives a range of dimensions for stabilizer locations, and that this board is at one end of that range and Signature Plastics' molds are at the other end.

The way the stabilizers are mounted also depends some on the material. Bamboo, I fear, has a little bit more "give" and I wonder if things move around based on humidity. I want to see if I can reproduce this with the acrylic and bamboo bodies as well.

I had similar issues with the stabilizer for right shift. Lubrication doesn't help much. You might try this experiment: take the stabilizers apart and cut/trim the outer shell of each stabilizer to allow more side to side movement.

I prefer Cherry stabilizers for easier key swaps but we have to get the binding issues resolved. I may even end up sending a Space bar to the manufacturer to see if they can resolve this. (I wonder if it's just Signature Plastics SA profile or if DCS and DSA have the same issue. DCS Space bars are much easier to find.)

[snuci]

As one of the early adopters, I got my keyboard yesterday. Mine looks very similar to XMIT's bamboo keyboard which is 87 key, 70g springs, bamboo housing with white key caps.

The reason I wanted to participate was solely for the fact that the key switches were hall-effect based and that I wanted a keyboard that might actually be similar to one of the Micro Switch keyboards I have but actually be functional.

First off, when unpacking the keyboard, I was quickly impressed by the box it came in. Maybe I'm deprived but the box was a flat black spacious cardboard box that has magnetic clasps for closing (nice touch given the magnetic hall-effect switches used). I immediately thought about Apple packaging that is functional with lots of thought given to the industrial design of the box. There was no writing other than the word "Sample" on the box but I imagine this is only because of the "prototype" nature at this stage. The boxes my Topre's come in resemble something that would house a cookie cutter $10 keyboard. This box could hold your treasured fine china (no pun intended).

The keyboard was nestled between two high density foam rubber retainers and was covered in a plastic bag. Inside the box were two extra key switches, five extra 70g springs, two elongated springs (that I haven't figured out what they are for yet) and a round plastic finger key cap puller. Included was a single sheet with instructions which I referred to only to turn off the "light show" (more on that later).

Two slight differences from XMIT's keyboard that are plainly visible are:
1. There are added rubber feet, even with the extra angle bars in place; two in front and two in the back. They are long flat rubber feet about an inch long.
2. The metal "T" nuts that hold the bamboo layers together are reversed on mine so the screw slot side is down.

I actually like the "T" nuts like they are. At some point, I may switch it but the side sticking up is not as shiny as the screw slot side. This, of course, is me being picky. My preference would be to not see any exposed metal at all so that the bamboo is undisturbed.

The key switches are interesting. They are fairly simple in design but I think the real engineering went into the hall-effect PCB. I have not taken mine apart as XMIT looks like he's got great pics already. I can pull key caps off fairly easily but in one particular case, I can pull out the whole key switch and cap. When I do this, the spring jumps out so one must be careful. This may be because of the bamboo construction and that the two plastic holding clips don't have a thin plate to hold onto. I'd be curious if the plastic cases exhibit this behavior also.

The "jury is out" on the feel of the key switches for me. I think I've mentioned that I am a bad judge of key feel so I honestly just need some time to "feel these out". I have experienced old school Micro Switch hall-effect switches mounted on metal plates with super thick key caps and they are very stable and solid. They are a delight to type on but sadly, they are still unusable at this point because of a lack of conversion. As such, I won't compare these as I don't find these comparable. This is not to say that these new hall effect key switches are bad; they are just different. These are smooth and are great in their own way.

I was using 45g HiPro Topre key switches prior to using this new keyboard and I've only had a couple of hours of usage. These key switches feel fairly heavy but I think it's because of the lack of tactile feedback. I feel I have to hit them pretty well but when I type lightly, the keys register fine. Prior to my Topre, I was used to a buckling spring so I'm probably not a good judge for linear switches. Because of the down force I use, they are clattery and loud but that's because I bottom out on them each and every time. For the record, I am not a touch typist and don't use more than four or five fingers so I do a lot of hunting and pecking and look at the key caps pretty frequently.

The key caps do feel good but the legends are a bit of an issue (because I have to look at them every time). As many of you know, I am a classic keyboard type of guy so I hate the font used on the key caps. I understand that they are like this because of the fact that they have transparent inserts so the LEDs can shine through but it really wrecks the aesthetic for me. I knew this coming into it because XMIT provided pictures before we ordered but I figured I could live with it. With these key caps, the normal and shifted legends are in-line and not "shifted legend above normal legend" as most keyboards are. It also uses two or three letter abbreviations for key caps so key like "Home" being abbreviated to "HM" is not desirable.

I am not one for the RGB "light show", as I call it. It's nice to see that this feature is there but I have nothing to compare it to in terms of functionality and after trying out a few different modes, I turned it off. Once the "light show " is off, the key caps appear to have dark legends so the contrast with white keys is actually quite nice.

At this point, it is really too early for me to decide if I like this keyboard or not. I will try this out for a little while and see how I feel after I have used it for a bit. I would have like to try out the lighter springs to see how they feel in comparison but these feel fine. Because of my usage pattern, I think the key switches could use some dampening or something to make them a little quieter but as I type this, I think it is a pretty good keyboard at this stage. I should try out some thick Cherry key caps and see if that make any difference.

That's all for now.

[XMIT]

I've never typed on a hall effect keyboard but the "hype train" is that these are even more reliable/durable than boards like Topre. To that point I would like none of the excess electrical baggage on board. Maybe I am getting old but I feel like sometimes I'm becoming more alienated by the world. For instance touch screens in cars. WTF. WHY???

I'll note that Micro Switch made Hall effect keyboards in the 1970s and 1980s. This is the latest take on a fairly old design. Topre boards will eventually develop hardened rubber (over decades, of course) - ask 002 about what happens as they age. Capacitive sensing is even more fiddly than Hall sensing and is not robust in humid environments or underwater. Now don't get me wrong, I love Topre boards to death and own several, and most folks won't see these differences in day to day use, but I don't see the above as a reason to discredit Hall effect outright.

As mentioned earlier, too, I have a particular love for magnetic actuation mechanisms. They're simple and elegant so long as you can visualize magnetic field lines.

Also, this will sound offensive but I'm not a child. I feel like these RGB boards are marketed towards children. Or perhaps it's not that and maybe I've witnessed a cesspool of cheap Chinese backlit keyboards invading the market with extremely terrible ugly fonts.

They are marketed to gamers in China who love this aesthetic.

Please don't confuse the fonts on the key caps with the underlying quality of the board. The reason for the controversial fonts is in part, creating stencil-friendly legends that are that much easier to cast in double shot molds. Look at the letter 'O' to see what I mean.

RGB backlighting can be disabled. Key caps can be changed. Even the case material is up for modification. But I'm genuinely excited about the Hall actuation mechanism and the design possibilities it affords.

[XMIT]

@snuci: The extra "elongated springs" are 50g samples that I asked the manufacturer to include. Also, my screws or "T nuts" were installed upside down (my mistake). You can put the screws up or down as you see fit, I like them up!

It is possible to make PBT double shot key caps with better legends - see these Vortex caps as an example. They are much more expensive.



http://keypuller.com/pbt-pom-double-shot-by-vortex/

I have a set of these, and, they may find a home on my board.

[Virtureal]

Exciting to hear all this feedback from the first reactions.

I for one have nothing against the back-lightning and feel that any time and resources spent on removing that could be better used on improving the cases and all other problem areas.

I agree that the caps are super ugly, but they are used on many Chinese keyboards and must be super cheap, I would prefer something else, but I am again more interested in the switches themselves to the point where the caps don't matter much as long as they are exchangeable.

[the_marsbar]

This is very interesting.

I would really like one of these 60% boards. I looked at their website on alibaba, but couldn't find it. Do you have a direct link or something like that?

For now, please hang on until I get a group buy going. I think it will be worth the wait while we get whatever issues sorted out.

Great, thanks a lot.

I'm sorry if I missed it. But the keyboard is programmable, right? I'd probably need to make the Fn be to the far right (to look as similar to the HHKBs that I have as possible).

[Engicoder]

- Issues fitting SA space bar. Severe binding due to distance between stabilizer posts (too short)

Oh, excellent catch Engicoder, I had not yet thrown my SA Retro set on the board. I'll see if I can reproduce this at home.

I prefer Cherry stabilizers for easier key swaps but we have to get the binding issues resolved. I may even end up sending a Space bar to the manufacturer to see if they can resolve this. (I wonder if it's just Signature Plastics SA profile or if DCS and DSA have the same issue. DCS Space bars are much easier to find.)

GMK space bar was much better but still had some binding when pressing at the ends of the space bar.

[smudgers]

They are marketed to gamers in China who love this aesthetic.

Call me crazy but I'd rather see Mandarin characters on the keycaps than some bastardized version of English letters.

[smudgers]

BTW: +1 on Cherry stabilizers (preferably clipped and lubed.)

Not so much because of ease of removal of keys but they help get rid of the "tick-tick-tick" that you sometimes get with slightly out of spec keycaps (space bars/stabilized keys/etc.)

[XMIT]

I'm sorry if I missed it. But the keyboard is programmable, right? I'd probably need to make the Fn be to the far right (to look as similar to the HHKBs that I have as possible).

I don't know that it is, I can ask about this as well. If you look through the photo albums linked to in the OP you can see the photos of the manual that include the Fn key options that *are* available.

I'd really love to just open up the firmware for these to let folks hack on them, I don't know how willing the manufacturer is to go along with this.

[Virtureal]

Any idea if the manufacturer wants to just sell switches and if they would be easily usable with a teensy or something similar.

I guess it would be difficult to just sell switches since the hall effect sensor is separate from the switch housing.

[XMIT]

We're looking into DIY and other options to incorporate the switch idea into other designs...

[matt3o]

okay this is my pretty quick straight to the point overview. I'm reviewing the 60% keyboard that seems to be a bit rushed out. The pictures of the TKL XMIT posted show a more refined product, but the sample I have is --I'm sorry to say-- pretty bad.



The case design is forced into a quire big bezel due to --in my opinion-- the choice of the wrong "sex bolts" (I believe that's what they are called). They are big and they lack of... style. There are far better alternatives (example 1, example 2). Also wood is not properly treated and would need better varnishing.



The case is a simple 3 layers sandwich and the bezel is added with 2 more layers on the back. My suggestion would be to get rid of the long back foot and add two cone aluminum feet. The rubber is roughly cut and stuck, but I bet that is just the prototype. Better rubber feet are definitely needed.



The cable is hard wired, not detachable. The cable itself is pretty thin, even though it features a ferrite ring to help with interferences. The male connector to the computer is HUGE and terribly designed. It looks like coming from a low budget 80s sci-fi movie.



The cable is soldered directly to the motherboard, which for a commercial keyboard is odd and possibly wrong. Better to use an internal small USB connector. But the real problem here is the super sloppy solder job. The cables are badly soldered and glued to the PCB, it's a miracle that everything still works. Again I'm sure this is because they rushed the sample, but still a letdown.



To the right side of the keyboard, directly to the bezel there are some "touch" switches. Unfortunately --again-- due to sloppy assembly they barely work and they are very easy to short getting on the way most of the times. If you look at the picture above, the work they've done is almost embarrassing. The 4 additional keys are ESC, HOME, INS and DEL.



The legends are really terrible, everybody already agree on that Really I would better put no keycaps or blanks than the current offering.

The keyboard is RGB backlit, I don't need it, but I see no harm in having it. Just turn it off if you don't want it. Having two products (one with LEDs and one without LEDs) just makes things more complicated in production. That being said my sample has already two broken LEDs (one pictured above). Not a good sign but --AGAIN-- prototype.

Backlit options are multiple and will make the joy of your children.

The firmware is not optimized for the 60% layout, the FN layer just lets you play with the backlight, I couldn't find any way to access the arrows or PG UP/DOWN, home/end, print screen and so on. They basically just got the TKL firmware and stuck into the 60%. So I'm basically unable to actually 100% test this keyboard. I hope XMIT will provide me with a more refined firmware in the coming weeks.

The switches. The feel is good, smooth and linear. They are NOT quiet switches! This is meant to be and I love them. They have that old-cold-war-russian keyboard feel which is fantastic. Stock-stock-stock-stock. There's a little reverb and ping-ness that should be addressed but overall they are really sweet. Don't get me wrong though, you gotta love that retro-keystroke feeling, otherwise you better stick with MX red or black.

The stabilized keys feel okay but the wood plate doesn't hold them very well and they slip away if you try to remove the keycaps.

As of now the keyboard is --in my opinion-- in an early stage of development at least in the 60% incarnation and honestly this sample I have is barely usable. I will try to take the switches apart and explore the feasibility of a custom build because they are really amazing and I wished they were available as spare parts.

I want to thank XMIT for letting me test this keyboard and I hope he will sort all issues, otherwise I would probably just skip the 60% version.

[XMIT]

Thanks matt3o! It's nice to get an outside perspective on the board. I'm glad that I asked for review instead of just trying to run a group buy of the board as is.

I'll see what I can do about a firmware and some of the other concerns.

About the cable being soldered directly to the board: this was done for waterproofing reasons. The manufacturer believes that a detachable connector could short out if the keyboard is put under water. There may be other ways to do this, such as a detachable connector with a waterproof connection.

The solder and glue job may look sloppy but I assure you it works. I used to work for a computer hardware vendor and I assure you, we had internal prototype parts with reworks that looked just like this. Ugly but functional.

We are dealing with a really small manufacturing house here. These keyboards are hand built at the moment!

[seebart]

Well, lets hope the later revisions are better. Good review thanks. The switches have potential then, that's the good news. Getting the case and the rest right should not be a problem.

[XMIT]

matt3o, I can't recall - did you get the 50g or 70g springs? The 70g springs don't ping as much, perhaps this is an issue with the lighter springs?

[Virtureal]

The touch sensitive buttons on the side seem unnecessary and the functions that they provide should probably just be available from a layer. It just seems so wrong to have a switch like that on a keyboard with otherwise lovely mechanical switches.

[matt3o]

The solder and glue job may look sloppy but I assure you it works. I used to work for a computer hardware vendor and I assure you, we had internal prototype parts with reworks that looked just like this. Ugly but functional.

I'll take better pictures tomorrow of the solder job. But the cable inside the keyboard is not very well secured, maybe some glue in the place where the cable holds to the case?

Also the wires that go to the side touch switches are too thin and they are "strangled" between the PCB and the case. You are asking for troubles there, it seems they are going to rip any time.

[XMIT]

My shipment of boards just came in. I was getting ready to go to bed when the DHL guy finally showed up.

The ABS version of the board is a real winner. It is a little quieter than the others, much better put together, a little lower profile, and has much better leveling feet. Better still, a Signature Plastics SA space bar fits with no trouble at all. I'm typing on one right now.

I just opened my acrylic 60% board. The Signature Plastics SA profile Space bar works great here too. It uses different stabilizers - more Costar like, I'll need to get some photos to show what I really mean. The keys on the side - which I think are pressure sensitive - are kind of hokey and unreliable, I'm hoping we can get rid of them in a future release.

The ABS board is relatively light. The acrylic board, on the other hand, is surprisingly weighty and substantial, and feels really solid.

[Engicoder]

The ABS version of the board is a real winner. It is a little quieter than the others, much better put together, a little lower profile, and has much better leveling feet. Better still, a Signature Plastics SA space bar fits with no trouble at all. I'm typing on one right now.

Glad to hear the SA space bar works well. The problem with mine seemed to be due to the dimensions of the laser cut bamboo. I sanded the opening a bit to move the stabilizer outboard slightly and it seems to work fine with all the space bars I have.

I still have trouble with the inserts pulling out of the stabilizer base when I remove the space bar. Have you notices this issue? The inserts fit very tightly into the space bar; I have to use pliers to remove them. The space bar uses different stabilizers than the mods. Is there a reason for this?
Note: The mod stabilizers work well and do not suffer the same pullout issue as the space bar stab.

[XMIT]

Yeah, I think it's all based on dimensions, I've asked the manufacturer about this.

I don't know why the space bar uses a different stabilizer. It looks like there are a couple of different stabilizer types kicking around. I'm hoping that we can be consistent about Cherry stabilizers across the board.

Remember that these are still prototypes! I'm glad that we are working through all of these issues before production.

I'm really liking these 50g springs quite a lot. I don't usually go for linear switches but these are some of my new favorites.