F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[DMA]

Built to last months, not decades

LOL. But let's just wait until those beam springs accumulate 50k keypresses, that storm will be way larger.

@mbarszcz, can you post a photo of the keycap insides? There are 4 "corners" of each keycap which actually stabilize the keycap within the barrel, I really like to see those.

[webwit]

Heavy F62 HHKB user, almost 4 years daily driver, still going strong.

[wobbled]

Heavy F62 HHKB user, almost 4 years daily driver, still going strong.

Shame your website isn’t going strong, guess things go to crap when you’re a greedy asshole that sells to the highest bidder vs someone that gives a shit.
Understandable why you defend ellipse so much, your personalities are identical!

[webwit]

Shame you campaigned against Ellipse taking over. How did that work out for you, eh? Good job.

[wobbled]

Shame you campaigned against Ellipse taking over. How did that work out for you, eh? Good job.

Literally no one wanted to give money to Ellipse so he could buy DT lmfao, he could’ve bought it out of his own pocket but he's far too greedy for that, you are so incredibly tone deaf.
We had one greedy asshole owner before (you) and look where that got us, eh?
Fucking leave already, you’ve done enough damage.

[webwit]

Yeah yeah Ellipse did the unimaginable horror of... *checks notes*... creating a small business to sell new F and beamspring keyboards to enthousiasts. And he offered hosting with like a working wiki. You are really good in picking your battles. So the conclusion is you rather wanted DT to die than having Ellipse run it, and helped make it happen.

And why? Because of some Marxist jealous bullshit. You wanker.

[wobbled]

Yeah yeah Ellipse did the unimaginable horror of... *checks notes*... creating a small business to sell new F and beamspring keyboards to enthousiasts. And he offered hosting with like a working wiki. You are really good in picking your battles. So the conclusion is you rather wanted DT to die than having Ellipse run it, and helped make it happen.

And why? Because of some Marxist jealous bullshit. You wanker.

He didn’t offer shit, he was asking other people to buy DT *for* him, while offering no shared ownership.
If he wanted to own it, he could have bought it himself with the profits he’s made from DT users in the past.
I guess you’re the only person dumb enough to have thought this was a good idea.

No one wants DT to die, the only exception to this is you. You sold to the highest bidder with 0 fucking regard for the community.
If you want ellipse to own it so bad, maybe you should have sold to him in the first place you troglodyte.
The ONLY person to blame for the death of DT is you, chump.

[mbarszcz]

After reviewing your additional notes and photos, I can't really diagnose whether there is an issue from here so it would be great if you could wash all the keys (soaked in water, not only wiped by hand) and send the full set back to me for testing. The parts must have all lube and debris removed. (Ultrasonic bath cleaning with dish soap would be best, if you have it)

I will send you a new set as a replacement. Please email me the tracking number after you have sent it back, and let me know if you have any questions with the above steps.

I also suggest cleaning out the barrels with a cotton swab / Q tip and 99% rubbing alcohol before reinstalling the new set. I have found that this helps Model M keyboards as well to improve smoothness.

However I do think that this is just something to do with the typing style you noted, pressing on the edges of the keys, that is more evident with the new production keys which may have slightly tighter tolerances in terms of space between key stem and barrel compared to your particular F122. As I mentioned, the keys should be more difficult to press on the edges than in the center, based on IBM's design, and I'd imagine everyone else has not noticed such an issue because they don't type near the edges of the keys. From what you have described, this is either an issue with one bad key set or due to abnormal usage patterns, so when I receive your set back I should know one way or the other.

Ellipse,

This is going to be complicated. I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, so I can't ultrasonic clean them before sending them back. Secondly, at least initially, the keys only seem to be scratchy in their usual barrels, so I doubt you'll feel the same thing i you install them in a keyboard and try it out. However, you would be able to get a better look at them. Swapping the keys around or moving them to my F122 does not cause the same scratchiness. Third, my keyboard is a combination of standard keys, Icon keys, keys with lube (large keys around the edges) and keys without. Instead of trying to explain it, here's a picture of the current state

PXL_20250208_050120871.jpg (3.46 MiB) Viewed 6503 times

.

With that in mind, tell me what you do and don't want back. I highly doubt though a new key set will behave any differently over time though if they are ultimately all the same. The same issue will likely just resurface after a few months of daily use.

Regarding some more photos and some more information on the wear:

Upon close inspection of the keys, there are 4 distinct spots that are wearing on all 4 key corners. The wear is occurring on the "corners" of the stem from the bottom of the step up to several mm from the bottom of the keycap. You can see that outlined the photo below in red on a bad key, green on a good key.

PXL_20250208_051946947.jpg (2.04 MiB) Viewed 6503 times

While the keys with the dry lube are not scratchy at all, you can see that same contact/wear patch happening easier on them because of where it rubs off.

PXL_20250208_052346553.jpg (2 MiB) Viewed 6503 times

PXL_20250208_052714398.jpg (2.21 MiB) Viewed 6503 times

I would be very curious to hear from any other new Model F owners see this same wear pattern on their heavily used keys. If you can, please pop a few keys off and have a look for me. Surely it can't just be me. I double checked and found that this wear pattern is not occurring at all on my F122 keys even after 40 years despite looking nearly identical. Blaming it on my "typing style" is as absurd sounding as Apple telling people they were holding their iPhone 4s wrong back in 2010. If there is a manufacturing problem, materials issue, or tolerance problem, then that is what it is is and should be addressed as such. And if there is one, then it should affect everyone with that same batch of components equally. Whether they notice it or not is inconsequential. Either the wear is occurring prematurely or it isn't.

I type on old Alps keyboards, Model Ms, Original Model Fs, A handful of different Cherry MX switches all the same way and this seems to be the only keyboard that has a problem with it. I type quickly (110wpm) but surely my typing style along with resonators's isn't all that unique compared to everyone else. And to be clear, I'm not typing at the edges of the keys all day. The issue is that the heavily used keys become scratchy and have more resistance than the non-scratchy keys. When typing quickly it causes missed letters because those keys bind and don't press down all the way. That's obviously not the case with ctrl, alt, tab, those just feel bad when pressed slowly. The feeling is exactly like typing on a dirty Alps keyboard on those keys when they are pressed in just the right way. Chryrosran22 knows what I'm talking about.

[Ellipse]

Your earlier post noted "The biggest difference I noticed between the keys though seemed to be in the "corners" of the barrels. I'm really not sure what we're looking at there though. Is that is wear in the barrel plastic or stem material that has rubbed onto the barrel?. Dust? Nothing? Swapping in a new stem "fixes" the problem (until it would wear again) though. After swapping my scroll lock and T keys, the T barrel with the scroll lock key is perfectly smooth, while scroll lock with the worn T stem feels the exact same, scratchy. So in other words, the feeling follows the stem."

If the feeling follows the stem in different barrels, would that be different from what you noted above?

Again, without replacing the keys we won't know if it is an issue of some bad keys from the injection molds or some other issue.

It seems like letting the keys soak in warm soapy water for an hour, then rinsing them two or three times with non-soapy cold water may be ok. The lube may have to be removed with a hand towel.

For now I recommend that I just replace the main US key set. In a little while from now we will know if it wears the same with your particular usage.

Also have you checked that all springs match the updated photo in the manual, with the keyboard held vertically, space bar end up? Maybe springs in the non-ideal position may contribute to keys not working well over time.

Have you tried burnishing the back stem area with your fingernail with the process noted in the manual? That does smooth out keys in my experience.

[mbarszcz]

I guess I did contradict myself between the two posts. It all depends on the situation I suppose. What I'm trying to say is if the scratchy feeling is going to follow anything, it seems to follow the stems once they are damaged. Once a stem is scratchy, it seems to be scratchy in its original barrel, always. Moving it to another barrel is SOMETIMES scratchy, sometimes not. Moving a "fresh" stem into a previously scratchy barrel never seems to be scratchy. (after I wrote the rest of this post, it makes even more sense).

I'm unclear on the intent of why the keys need to be washed. Is this to wash off possible debris that you think may be causing the issue, to wash off the dry lube, or just that you don't want someone's "dirty" key caps back? There are only 10 keycaps on the board with dry lube applied, most of which are from the icon set anyway. I'd rather take the time to wash not wash every other keycap on the board if I don't have to. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not sure what we're getting at here.

I checked the springs and the end of the springs point towards the top of the keyboard.

All that being said though I think this is all a moot point after discovering some more information.

Because the mechanism is impossible to see once it is in the keyboard, I pulled out a spare barrel from the first aid kit to line up the wear pattern on the stem with the position on the barrel, and I think I am almost positive now as to what is causing the wear. There is a burr inside the bottom of the barrel damaging the stems.

The wear pattern on the stems aligns precisely with the "rim" of where the barrel meets into the bottom ~1mm thick part just before it opens up to the area where the flipper goes. You can see it (and feel it) from the underside easier.

20250208_180301.jpg (1.62 MiB) Viewed 6308 times

There is an ever ever so slight ridge/burr protruding out. To the naked eye it looks like a sharp edge, but with the tip of a needle or screwdriver, you can feel the fine point catch on the burr. When the stem is pressed slightly skewed in the barrel, it rubs against this protruding ridge and this is what causes the wear on the parts that touch, the corner.

To try to draw a diagram of it, it would look something like this:

burr on barrel.png (13.75 KiB) Viewed 6308 times

This correlates with what I'm seeing inside my F104 barrels, you can see right along that that ridge looks even more white, with what looks like worn stem material around it.

20250208_175752.jpg (3.76 MiB) Viewed 6308 times

If anything needs to be deburred, it would be the barrel itself, but that is impossible without removing every single barrel and doing something with that edge.

Take a look at the original IBM F122 barrel, that burr is not there. The shape is the same, the barrel goes down, there is a bevel, and then it goes straight down again to the bottom of the barrel, but the transition is perfectly smooth with no burrs.

20250208_183651.jpg (1.43 MiB) Viewed 6308 times

Pull out a few new barrels and compare them against any old Model Fs you may have. Check and feel that edge, I bet you'll find that it is there on the newly manufactured parts.

To me this seems to be a pretty definitive explanation to what is going on here. The burr on the harder fiberglass reinforced barrels (or whatever they are) is scraping against the softer PBT causing the scratchiness and wear. If the barrels are damaging the stems, that also explains why replacing replacing the keys just causes the problem to come back over time. It also explains why the "scratchy stems" that have been damaged don't "scratch" in the IBM barrels, because that burr isn't there for them to rub on.

Only you know exactly how the factory manufactures those barrels, but I would take a close look at whatever tooling or process determines what how the bottom edge of the barrel is manufactured and see if something can be done about it. The end result is definitely different than the way the original IBM part though.

[Oelmuvun]

I actually already started lubing keys on my F104 in early January.
It began with L-Ctrl and L-Alt. Lately I have been noticing letter keys starting to not feel quite right and sometimes very very rarely starting to bind if I hit them too lightly and a slight off-angle. I'm certainly no expert, but any time I am dealing with worn out plastic the excess wear allows parts to wonk off at angles and bind up, so I don't agree with any sort of 'wearing in' concept where these keys get better over time.

One notable difference is that I did not go straight for the dry lube. I am comparing white lithium grease with 3M 08946 Silicone Paste. I have had this jar of silicone paste since around 2017 and it has never separated in it's jar, or on anything I have ever used it on, so I feel pretty confident that it's not going to ruin my keyboard.

So far the 3M 08946 on L-Ctrl is winning by a very large margin with delightful key feel. The Lithium on L-Alt is slowly starting to fetch up again.... And I use L-Ctrl more than L-Alt, though perhaps I use L-Alt at more extreme angles with the thumb? I normally hit L-Ctrl on the side with my pinkie anyway as my hands aren't small. Probably a tossup as far as usage goes.

Either way, in a matter of months I have seen more damage to this F104 just typing and gaming on it normally than I ever did to a real Model M, a UniComp Classic 104 Trackball(what a miserable useless heap that was, it's controller ended up dead anyway), and a Das Keyboard Model S Professional that I purple modded(is that what you call black springs in blue switches?). I think the only keyboard I have ever actually worn out was one of those garbage Apple USB Keyboards, the fruit coloured ones. In the end the keys needed to be pressed very firmly and straight-on; sounds pretty familiar.

I have two real IBM Model F boards, but I never did use them as my primary keyboard, one being for my IBM 5150 and the other being that annoying AT layout, so it's perhaps not fair to compare them. They are both awesome though, and the reason I was interested in the F104 in the first place.


I'm very curious about the results of de-burring the barrels and if that is the ultimate solution here. It's not that I can't lightly lube every key... and I'm considering it before things get too bad... but I shouldn't have to.
I shouldn't have to de-burr my barrels either, but I will if that's what it takes. If I have time I might experiment with one of my spares, not promising anything though.

[DMA]

I have two real IBM Model F boards, but I never did use them as my primary keyboard, one being for my IBM 5150 and the other being that annoying AT layout, so it's perhaps not fair to compare them. They are both awesome though, and the reason I was interested in the F104 in the first place.

If you have an XT _and_ AT - you should have enough barrels to rebarrel the F104. You can chop the XT nubs off - they don't really do much if you're hand-assembling the keyboard anyway. Yes, the barrels will be rotated slightly, and it's not what you expect in general by paying $400+ for - but it's a workable solution.

[mbarszcz]

Oelmuvun thank you for sharing your experiences with the problem.

The reason I went for the dry lube was to try to avoid any grease/oil attracting dirt/debris since the surfaces are exposed to the outside of the switch mechanism (unlike the rails inside an MX style switch). Have you found either of the lubes you tried to have attracted any gunk? How long have you used it for? I lubed my Alps white switches' sliders and rails with the same (literally) dry lube 9 years ago now and it has been flawless despite heavy use to the point where the keycaps are worn and shiny and nearly a decade of dust, crumbs and cat hair. I'm hoping lubing the stems yields similar results with the F104 unless there is a new batch of deburred barrels released or someone else discovers a better solution. Without doing anything to address the problem, I wouldn't be surprised if the keyboard felt too shitty and annoying to use after 5 years (which would be a damn shame).

[Oelmuvun]

If you have an XT _and_ AT - you should have enough barrels to rebarrel the F104. You can chop the XT nubs off - they don't really do much if you're hand-assembling the keyboard anyway. Yes, the barrels will be rotated slightly, and it's not what you expect in general by paying $400+ for - but it's a workable solution.

It may hurt feelings but the funny thing is that out of the three, this F104 is the second class citizen. It being something different and not a real original board. Also both of the originals are in pristine condition and I actually have an IBM 5150 that I use occasionally, so it needs it's keyboard.

It'll be a real shame if people start hacking up originals to fix these new ones, so we need to get this sorted out even if it means manually de-burring.

Have you found either of the lubes you tried to have attracted any gunk?
...
How long have you used it for?

It's only been a month as of yesterday. When I pulled R-Ctrl some lint was on it but it looked freshly deposited and otherwise clean. then I put the keycap back and pulled a couple more times and each time there was slightly more lint/debris... So I think if I had left it alone it would have been fine and the shock from removal jostled things around.
Oh well, I've got a spare barrel out and will hum and haw a bit. I have a feeling this may involve breaking the edge with some sort of dremel bit by finger-power. I can't imagine it taking much.

This is what we're starting with.

PXL_20250209_191348281.jpg (1.91 MiB) Viewed 6023 times

[mbarszcz]

That is a much better picture of that burr.

Being recessed down in the barrel like it is, I have a feeling is going to be tricky to remove "automatically" as most deburring tools are designed to take a burr off an edge not in the middle of a tube. Plus the rest of the barrel needs to be kept as smooth as possible, otherwise there will just be another rough surface to rub against.

Possible a very small Dremel drum with 1200+ grit sandpaper is all I can think of, but my god would that be a miserable process at scale.

[Ellipse]

Thanks, this is a helpful discussion. I have just asked the factory to remove the burr and send some samples for evaluation.

If anyone has any other specific improvements or adjustments please do let me know, either here or by email. Small adjustments can possibly be made, but remaking all new molds for other adjustments is not feasible.

However, I still disagree that this is something that more than 0.1% of folks will ever notice, even if the burr remained. Thousands of boards with these barrels have been in use for years now, and folks who say they heavily use the board daily tell me that there are zero issues. The molds have not changed, so I just don't think this is noticeable to all but those who are looking for problems or are most sensitive to it.

Based on your research it may be best to hold off sending the keys back until you can send both keys and barrels back, after the new barrels arrive. Regarding sending back just the US full key set and not the icon or other keys, yes the reason is all of the above.

The reason for cleaning the barrels with rubbing alcohol is to remove any existing dust or debris from outside and inside the barrels and also because I have found using a Q tip dipped in 90%+ rubbing alcohol to result in smoother key operation, at least for Model M keyboards. Maybe it interacts with the plastic of the barrels, at least for the dozens I have restored over the years.

[Oelmuvun]

The only hangup I have now is that I don't want to dismantle this thing 15 times, I am in an all-or-nothing mood. The debate is whether I leave near-to-original finish or see if I have something I could use to polish it a bit. They weren't exactly pretty to begin with but if the surface gets taken down too much that is going to add wobble.

As for as molds go, is it possible there is a tooling lifespan issue? Or have there not been enough produced for that? It looks a whole lot like the casting line where the two halves meet, but I am not an injection molding guy and I don't know what I am talking about.

PXL_20250209_194904258.jpg (1.7 MiB) Viewed 5974 times

[mbarszcz]

Oelmuvun, you can really see in your photos the difference before/after with the shadow cast by the burr disappearing.

What method did you use to remove it? I wonder if it would be possible to test the difference outside of disassembling and reassembling the whole keyboard for one barrel.

I hate the feeling of bending those tabs that hold it all together. It always feels like it might be the last.

[Oelmuvun]

Oelmuvun, you can really see in your photos the difference before/after with the shadow cast by the burr disappearing.

What method did you use to remove it?

I don't have a huge selection, but the first was done with some dremel bits I had in a set. The pink one is a stone that was rubbed longitudinally with the barrel, then the blue one is more of an abrasive rubber that was used to try to smooth things out. Keeping in mind that I'm doing this by hand, there are no powered tools involved here. The pink stone might be a bit rough, but I don't have anything slightly finer at the moment.

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PXL_20250210_025555644.jpg (2.5 MiB) Viewed 5845 times

I wonder if it would be possible to test the difference outside of disassembling and reassembling the whole keyboard for one barrel.

I must admit though, I'm not terribly inclined to just sit around tapping these keys for hours on end for who knows how long.
The one on the right is the control Ctrl in it's original barrel, I hadn't lubed it yet despite it's rough feeling. The one on the left is the fresh smoothed out barrel with a fresh key, it's nice and smooth, as one would expect. I will do one of the other rough keys from the board in a few hours, just a bit busy right now and poking at it sporadically.

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[Irving]

Hello folks,

I recently got my FSSK (ISO-DE) delivered and now I am facing reality in the sense that macOS is not fully supported in the sense that it acts as if it were an Apple keyboard. (Now I am aware this is due to Apple not going along the USB HID standard.)

I am looking for some input on how that would be achieved/what needs to be changed and maybe some help to compile the QMK firmware locally, including Apple's vendor ID I found some bits here and there, but no consistent, up to date info on this for Ellipse's recent Model F keyboards.

This is what I would like to achieve:
o I would like to have the Globe/fn key (as a key code) available for MacOS windows management as well as for bringing up the character viewer.
o In addition, I would want the function keys acting as the media keys etc. as available on an original Apple keyboard.

I asked this a while back and Arkku gave some hints here a while back, based on his own QMK fork:
o viewtopic.php?p=513469#p513469

But as far as I understand, the latest firmware is based on NathanA's work (I tried to reach him, but to no avail.):
https://www.newfxx-firmware.nconx.com/


Recently, I stumbled across this, but again, I am struggling to put this all into a consistent approach/(step by step) guide:
o https://skip.house/blog/qmk-globe-key
o https://gist.github.com/lordpixel23/874 ... 258a667efd
o https://gist.github.com/fauxpark/010dcf ... e37414c6c4 (media keys toggle)

It would be great if one of the firmware geniuses round here could lend me a hand!

[Ellipse]

Here we have a terrific in-depth review of the new Model M style Model F keyboards:

https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/20 ... style.html

I like how everything is explained so well. You really do need an extended length article to explain things sufficiently, which has been done well in this article. I think this article could serve as an excellent reference for those who are new to the keyboard hobby as well as those who have some experience with buckling springs.

My feedback to the author is copied below:

F62 and F77 keyboards started shipping in 2019, not 2021.

Ellipse is my user name on the forums, not Elipse.

Some Model F's used two piece keys like some of the F122's other than 6110344, while some Model M's used once piece keys such as some of the terminal models like my 1392980 terminal SSK. Generally your point is accurate about one piece being more common for F and two piece being more common for M.

This note is only correct for the XT and AT style Model F keyboards with the extra long spacebars; the rest do not use that huge spacebar that requires taking apart the plates: "Cleaning Model Fs is a time-consuming process. You can remove every key except the spacebar, which has stabilizers that are connected underneath the top steel plate. To remove the spacebar, you must separate the two steel plates. Every barrel and spring/hammer combination will have to be set properly when the plates are put back together. People have broken the stabilizer retention clips on the spacebar by trying to remove it without removing the stabilizer wire beforehand."

[ChairmanNow]

Is this layout possible, either now or in the future? For the Classic Style Model F.

PXL_20250210_214154597.resized.jpg (28.53 KiB) Viewed 5613 times

I think that the shift key is available in the HHKB set, and the pipe-backslash is shown in the picture in the extra key set. Not sure about the BigAss enter key (saw some discussion that it was possibly going to be available in the future).

I really want a Classic Style Model F, but it'd be ideal if I could do a "Northgate" style layout (which is my daily driver, and thus, the crusty keys).

[Oelmuvun]

After sitting here for three hours rapidly tapping switches taped to my desk I think I would like to hold off on the de-burring operation.

So to re-cap(ha, puns):
L-Ctrl and L-Alt were the first to start fetching up originally. In early January L-Ctrl got silicone and L-Alt got lithium. Once month later L-Ctrl was still great but L-Alt was starting to bind up again.

As a test just within the past 24h I got out a new barrel and cap, de-burred the barrel, and it seemed really great initially.... It is now starting to get scratchy if pressed off-centre.

Since cleaning L-Ctrl and L-Alt(both have burr) with 99% isopropyl alcohol they are both operating equally smoothly, and at least so far, they seem even better than the fresh de-burred switch when it was still fresh.

I tried de-burring R-Alt and went a little harder on it than the fresh barrel. It was not all that much better initially, but has come around to a second-place completely reasonable state with a tiny bit of silicone grease.

The A key is also de-burred but a bit lighter than R-Alt. However I only have so many fingers here and haven't played with it for very long.

R-Ctrl is my control, it has never been lubed or de-burred and will remain that way for the time being. It is not a very nice switch to use, though did improve slightly once cleaned. It's still the worst of the lot currently.


I am wondering if I might need to eat my words about keys breaking in. I am wondering if the lubricant allows for easier wear-in by holding the particles in suspension so they can do their abrasive thing but still allowing easy gentle movement.

I really want to just skim the whole board with silicone grease and see what happens.

Some other thoughts...
The burr, if properly broken in, perhaps is less surface area and less friction? But will the lack of support/bearing surface(skinny burr VS. wide flat barrel) ultimately cause more wear when the lube is removed in the future?

I'm pretty sure my surface finish is not as smooth as the natural as-cast finish, unfortunately I am not really equipped to deal with that at the moment. But I don't know enough about plastic to know if it should actually be glassy smooth or have some texture to reduce friction. I guess it depends on the viscosity of the lubricant you are trying to hold, if any at all.

Someone smarter than me knows this answer for the plastics involved in this. But for the time being when I get back at this again I am going to see what happens with the whole thing getting silicone grease. Those two initially lubed keys are really nice during bench testing. So smooth, and crisp, just how a Model F should be. They are practically seamless when pushed from basically any angle.

[Ellipse]

Yes ChairmanNow, you can get that PC AT big enter key from a wheelwriter or borrow one from a PC AT keyboard; both are compatible with Model F keyboards. In recent months I posted someone's use of the wheelwriter enter key on a new Model F. The other keys are correct and can be done with the HHKB style split right shift option.

[Oelmuvun]

A really quick note to close out my tangent:

I used a q-tip in a drill with some polishing compound to polish the area affected when removing the burr. This was performed on the R-Alt barrel. Initially key feel was almost indistinguishable from the two that had been lubed with a burr for a month(and now dry), but after an hour of tapping it rapidly it started to feel scratchy as it did before, and as others did before. It still ranks in second place for key-feel and is still totally usable at this point in time.

Given that, I put the board back together and lubed almost everything.
A is lubed and had it's burr roughed off, but not fully polished.
L-Ctrl and L-Alt were previously lubed, but are currently un-lubed and have burrs. L-Ctrl and L-Alt are currently the best feeling larger high-use keys on the whole keyboard.
L-meta, R-FN, R-Alt and R-Ctrl are unlubed, R-Alt is de-burred and polished, R-Ctrl is original from the beginning.

So now I wait another month or so and see what happens.

[mbarszcz]

Oelmuvun, thank you for trying the different things and reporting on them. I'm not sure we arrived at any definitive conclusions other than the fact that there are multiple people experiencing premature wearing causing scratchiness/binding with heavy use.

A barrel with no burr (originally from the factory) may still perform better than one that has been deburred manually after the fact, or maybe not. We don't have such a thing yet, but it seems that attempting to removing it by hand though has not yielded great results unfortunately compared to lubrication, although it may contribute to less wear over time.

Despite PBT supposedly being self-lubricating, perhaps that property is not substantial enough when interfacing with the plastic of the new barrels. Maybe the application of an additional lubricant (sparingly) really just is the simple answer. And if so, what kind works best over a long time remains to be seen. What stays in place and what simply wears away? Dry PFTE? Silicone? A thin grease like Tribosys 3203?

[resonator]

I put the caps and barrels I replaced aside and just checked over them now. The barrels each have distinct wear marks where they stem has rubbed. I cannot fault mbarszcz's findings so far. I agree with and have experienced everything they've posted so far.

Since replacing my barrels maybe a month ago, everything is still fine. I did try to swap my backspace cap (above enter HHKB style) with another legend, and it immediately started binding when pressed off centre. I swapped the cap back and it has been fine since. My experience -- and this has been also stated by mbarszcz -- is that it can be the combination of keys and barrels. I've also noticed that once a barrel becomes bad, swapping the cap stops helping. It's like some caps causes can cause the barrel to become scratchy.

@Ellipse, if it's helpful I can send you my damaged barrels and caps in exchange for undamaged ones. There are four of each, but I didn't track which cap was in which barrel.

[genericusername57]

I hade some scratchy keys too on my F62 which I solved (to my satisfaction at least) by polishing them with a whetstone for kitchen knives. Don't remember the grit but pretty fine. I'm guessing you've tried something similar already though.

[tron]

RE: scratchy key feel. I ordered three boards that shipped with the original first batch: F62 compact, F62 and F77. IMO all three feel very similar to my OEM model F boards with a lighter key feel (which I feel is more practical for most people). IMO swapping around key caps or asking for replacements and using the board will smooth out the key feel over time. You could also try using the board for a few months as a daily driver then cleaning the barrels with iso. RE: paint finish. I must be one of the lucky ones because the original formula paint finish on the F62/F77 boards hasn't degraded or flaked over time. I even have a wood wrist rest pushed/rubbing against the case without issues.

[ChairmanNow]

Yes ChairmanNow, you can get that PC AT big enter key from a wheelwriter or borrow one from a PC AT keyboard; both are compatible with Model F keyboards. In recent months I posted someone's use of the wheelwriter enter key on a new Model F. The other keys are correct and can be done with the HHKB style split right shift option.

Thanks for the response. Any chance that you're going to offer the PC AT big enter key in the future? I can harvest from my banged-up PC AT model F, but I'd like to keep it intact if possible.