Buckling Springs in Tenkeyless or Smaller

[Muirium]

Mr. Interface's switch sampler has rekindled my interest in buckling springs. The sound and feel of them brings back old memories all right! But what are the current options like for a buckling spring keyboard that's TKL or even smaller?

Unicomp doesn't appear to make anything that's not full size. And as for used keyboards, the only TKL bucking spring I've ever heard of is the Space Saving IBM Model M. It still goes for a high price, and isn't honestly as small as I'd like to use.


More space saving, please.

There isn't anything else out there already, is there?

Another idea is to build something myself. I've heard of people building their own compact keyboards around ALPS switches (as Matteo is doing in his guide) but I've not heard of buckling springs custom keyboards. Is there a big problem with making your own, vs. ALPS? Namely in the area of plates and cases that I know the least about?

Full size donor keyboards are certainly available for a buckling spring project. I may well pick up a full size to get a feel for it in actual use. It just won't fit as my primary keyboard.

My ideal buckler would be 60%-TKL in size, with a programmable controller and USB / Bluetooth! As far as I know, the components are out there.

[Muirium]

I'm guessing that an issue could be the fact that buckling springs aren't discrete switches. Model M style works over a membrane, while Model F is capacitative. Cherry MX and Alps switches, meanwhile, are actual switches.

[Peter]

This is the other TKL Model M (M15)



EDIT :
OK, there are 3 versions of this one ..

[Muirium]

Left handed arrow keys? I like it. But a bit short on modifiers to get me by.

[webwit]

For completeness I'll post the third one, the IBM Japan 5576-003 keyboard with Brother buckling springs.

[Muirium]

Sensible space saving design compared to its whimsically wide framed American brother.

[vivalarevolución]

Whimsically wide framed. I like that.

[tipo33]

A few people have cut full M's down, folded the membrane over and done some interesting case mods.

[Grond]

Inside a Model M you have a curved metal surface, a membrane and then the plastic barrels. I believe there is no easy way to replicate all this from scratch. It's probably much easier to cut a Model M down. Then again a cut case won't get much smaller than a SSK, so you'll have to figure a way to build a case from scratch.

[Muirium]

Yeah, this is pretty much what I feared. Wonder if there's a way to remove the membrane from the equation entirely, and make each buckling spring barrel into its own discrete switch.

Are the barrels plate mounted?

[vivalarevolución]

Here is a link to a project samwisekoi is doing over on Geekhack.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40006.0

[Muirium]

Great minds think alike! And sometimes the rest of us, too. Thanks for pointing me to that.

[crowstar]

I hacksaw'd mine in half and it worked okay.

[Grond]

This is very interesting as well.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.90

[Muirium]

I hacksaw'd mine in half and it worked okay.

Wait, I thought Model M beats hacksaw?

This is very interesting as well.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.90

Indeed it is. Glad I started this thread now, I'd no idea people were getting this close.

[bhtooefr]

Without getting into custom membranes (but definitely getting into custom controllers), there's also the Wheelwriter boards.

I believe the smallest variant of the Model M is the Wheelwriter 5. But, the modifier layout is a bit screwy.

[Muirium]

Smallish.

Yes, typewriters.com, tell me about your spare keyboards. The typewriter bit, well if you could detach all that and save on shipping?

[Grond]

I once had a Model F Bigfoot and though it seems enormous on the outside, it's mainly because of the giant bezel. Once removed the case, I found that inside the keyboard was surprisingly small

Spoiler:

[Muirium]

Looking good! Just needs a custom controller and some feet, right?

The huge case must have been the way to impress customers with the sheer weight of awesome they were buying back then. What the hell place did svelte have in the enterprise? Well, turns out…

[bhtooefr]

Actually, that one, you could hook a Teensy 2.0 to, run Soarer's firmware, and adapt to USB on a modern machine.

[Muirium]

There's a few Model Fs for grabs at the moment in a Taobao group buy.

Does this one look like it has potential for using outside its case? Or are all four sections one single unit, do you think?



There's two like this. £35 / $53 before all the rigmarole of shipping of course.

[bhtooefr]

As far as I know, all Model Fs are set up as one single unit.

Those are bad ones for adapting to a PC, incompatible protocol, as far as I know.

[Muirium]

Fair enough. Thanks for the info.

Fortunately, there is an AT.

[bhtooefr]

The ATs are the easiest to adapt to modern PCs (if you've got a PS/2 port, the adapter's not even active, but for USB, best to use a Teensy with Soarer's firmware, and not a generic PS/2 to USB adapter), followed by the 5-pin terminals (a passive adapter can be made, combined with some driver hacking on the host, or for a more general solution, the Teensy can be used with Soarer's firmware), followed by the XTs (which need a protocol adapter that isn't widely available, but again, the Teensy with Soarer's firmware comes to the rescue).

And the Teensy solution is pretty dang easy.

[Muirium]

Absolutely. Custom controllers are awesome.

And where there's a Teensy, there's a way … to go Bluetooth!

[1391401]

the XTs (which need a protocol adapter that isn't widely available, but again, the Teensy with Soarer's firmware comes to the rescue).

Hagstrom makes an XT to USB adapter that works flawlessly and is readily available:

http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/prod ... xtusb.html

[JBert]

I haven't had any problems with Soarer's converter built into my XT keyboard... and it's programmable!

[Muirium]

Yep. I'm working on a custom keyboard with Matteo which will have a programmable controller in it from day one. They are a killer feature!

[Spotty1125]

I haven't read that much of this forum as I am quite lazy in this way, but from what I read so far, we're talking about having buckling spring keyswitches on tenkeyless format.
I don't use the tenkey pad much on my Unicomp Ultra Classic, and the height of the keyboard makes the enter on the tenkey pad get in the way of my right hand when it goes off the keyboard to move the mouse. Therefore, I don't want the tenkey pad, really, and I got really excited when I saw that IBM made SpaceSaver models, which had no tenkey pad.
Unicomp does make a SpaceSaver model, but it's not tenkeyless.
If Unicomp started making a tenkeyless keyboard by the time I was going to buy another keyboard (which is going to be in a long, long while as the Model M's are extremely well built), I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[dorkvader]

Don't forget the "space unsaver" model F. Kishy has well documented his 1387033
http://kishy.dyndns.org/?p=97
It was made for a semi-portable orange plasma terminal. The design is based on the older IBM graphics / CAD stuff.

I have two 6248412 keyboards which are not currently compatible with a modern computer (mainly due to them having multiple outputs (there's some evidence that they might be serial / parallel switchable) and not sending upcodes) so it's less useful, but there has been some ongoing work in reproducing a controller that the matrix plugs into. Unfortunately, the matrix requires a full 30 IO pins, despite only needing 26 (for a 19*7 matrix). I suspect this is an interoperability / cost saving technique on IBM's part, as the full sized 122-keys are four columns wider to accomodate the tenkey, and would require all 30 IO lines. Here's a quick picture I had uploaded previously, showing the "unsaver" layout.
http://i.imm.io/164xL.jpeg

The 1387033 is likely the lexmark refurb PN of another keyboard. I THINK I've tracked down the PN of it, but I'm still fighting with vendors to get them to send me a picture of the connector so I can verify. This keyboard also came with APL layout / keycaps.

There's also some evidence of other small IBM buckling spring keyboards, but actually getting them in pretty much impossible. Even finding information is hard, and oftentimes there's not even a picture. I'm trying to track down a possible Flip plate (capacitive : model F) tenkey that should exist based on some old manuals and part numbers / accessories I found, but the two vendors I found online have been sold out for a while.