Too many tabs?

[Medowy]

I work with max 5 tabs. Personally I get really frustrated if I have 10+ tabs open.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In just over a week, I've crashed the browser from memory overload. It seems that the crash point is 2 GB, but it's possible to allocate all the way up to 3 GB:

Task Manager.png (58.42 KiB) Viewed 2324 times

Once you hit 3 GB, the program spends all of its time in the kernel:

Process Explorer.png (13.95 KiB) Viewed 2324 times

Even if I were to try the unofficial 64-bit builds, before long I'll need to upgrade to more than 8 GB RAM.

[7bit]

I never get why Windows people are still using the 32 bit version. Even I upgraded to 64bit and never had any trouble.


Also: Firefox crashed because Windows can't handle data that large!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

There is no official 64-bit version for Windows, unlike the other target platforms. I did read at one point that it was unstable, and possibly that's why it was abandoned. It shouldn't be a problem — find more wiki editors and I wouldn't need to be juggling so much. There is no good reason for ever needing to allocate so much RAM in the first place.

I know the soft limit is 2 GB (3 if you change the user/kernel address space balance — which may be the default by Windows 8), but I'm confused about how it managed to allocate another 1 GB after crashing. Clearly the allocation limit is 3 GB, not 2, but Firefox can't see above 2 GB.

(Though the ceiling is either 3 or 3.4 GB depending whose readings you believe — memory figures are complicated.)

[bhtooefr]

32-bit Windows processes can't actually allocate over 2 and work properly, IIRC.

And, 2880x1800 native on a laptop, everything at 100% zoom, is awesome. If you struggle to read it, get glasses.

[Muirium]

I already have glasses, what I'd need is a microscope…

1440x900 in 2x retina mode, that's the way. Pixel perfect sharp and not going to give me a seizure trying to look at it!

Straying back on topic: why Firefox when it's crippled by an architecture limit? No one should have to live in 4 gigs on a real computer these days. Is IE out of the question? (It always used to be, back in the IE6 days.) I'd go with Chrome for WebKit's sake if I had to use Windows.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

32-bit Windows processes can't actually allocate over 2 and work properly, IIRC.

Looks like it's complicated:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/arc ... 18527.aspx

This might help deepen your confusion:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/arc ... 13468.aspx

Why is Firefox still 32-bit in Windows? Pass. Would I seriously want to use Internet Explorer? No, it sucks. Chrome? Can't even do <select> properly, has terrible address bar history lookup, settings are a mess, and basically feels like some sort of a bad joke by Google. Browsers basically all suck.

[7bit]

Maybe you should use Firefox in the environment it was born for!

It does not make sense to use free software on top of a closed source environment. It is much more difficult to develop any software for that, than for an open source environment.

Here you start:
http://distrowatch.com/index.php?language=EN

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The very fact that Distrowatch even has to exist is an indication of the magnitude of failure of the Linux community. Human beings suck more than words can ever express.

[7bit]

Just hit "Random Distribution".


It can't be worse than Windows, ever!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A colleague has set up a laptop in the office with Ubuntu+Gnome or something. Pressing the Windows key brings up some sort of screen with ZERO keyboard navigation. You can't do anything with it, except search for programs, which, as with Windows 8, is the only thing that doesn't even show up. In the middle of the screen are thumbnails of all active processes, but you can't tab over to them. The side panels are likewise unreachable. Why on EARTH would I EVER press a key on the keyboard to open a panel that's not in any way keyboard accessible? What sort of stupid garbage is this? What sort of utter imbecile designed it?

Also, if you insert a disc, you get a pop-under message that's also non-navigable unless you use a mouse.

So yes, you can get something that's a lot worse: something that torments you with a load of UI features that are completely mouse-only, which this guy advises me to just use the mouse (trackpad) for. Seriously?

It's like they've combined all the worst mistakes Apple and Microsoft made and combined them for maximum irritation.

I have to laugh at the idiots who make RISC OS skins for KDE who have absolutely no idea why RISC OS was so special. Hint: RISC OS's key strength was not that you had marble-textured widgets. That's all these guys see, though, the skin-deep side of it. The fact that it's got the most intelligent use of the mouse of any OS I've ever seen, goes over their heads.

The Linux world is a load of senseless infighting over unending bad designs and religion, with little hope of a coherent, high quality system emerging for the desktop. It's a server/embedded OS, no doubt about that. (When you need to reformat and reinstall your computer for a special distro just to install a set of programs, you know you've created a resounding failure.)

[mr_a500]

The Linux world is a load of senseless infighting over unending bad designs and religion, with little hope of a coherent, high quality system emerging for the desktop. It's a server/embedded OS, no doubt about that. (When you need to reformat and reinstall your computer for a special distro just to install a set of programs, you know you've created a resounding failure.)

Well said. And if you ever visit a Linux forum to calmly suggest improvements or criticize anything, you get a load of hostile idiots jumping all over you until you have to say, "Well, fuck you then" and leave.

I think the major problem with Linux - and you can see it in the number of competing "distros" and GUIs - is the fact that there are so many pig-headed stubborn Linux programmers who bitch and fight and can't agree on a common way to do anything.

[webwit]

Needs a Steve Jobs kind of asshole.

[scottc]

Beardsmore - http://www.firefox64bit.com/

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Beardsmore - http://www.firefox64bit.com/

I know it exists, but I don't trust it. Where does the madness end? Do I double my RAM from 8 to 16 GB, then again to 32 GB to keep up with the growing amount of tabs? (Note that many tabs, especially most of those in window 1, aren't even loaded — they're all load-on-demand, something Chrome also appears to lack.)

Needs a Steve Jobs kind of asshole.

Steve was a really interesting character. Be too nice, or too weak, and nobody pays you any attention. Be too strong, but lack a vision, and you're a cruel dictator crushing dreams. Give people too much choice, and you end up with a lack of consistency. Give people too little choice, and they brand you as evil.

You can't find a single balance point as your staff, competition, technology and the whole world will be changing month on month, year on year.

Also, if you're not adequately technical, it's exceptionally hard to determine the difference between completely impossible and easy if your staff weren't stupid and lazy, and a balance point between quality and feasibility. (Artistic routing of PCB traces is pretty pointless even if it were actually possible, and it isn't.)

I was really dismayed to see people criticising Steve right after he died.

I can never fill your wiki master role. I couldn't convince an alcoholic to crack open a bottle, let alone the cat herding required to get people to get off their butts and upload some photos. To pull off what Apple pulled off, you need a special kind of person, and since this person will be human, you'll never strike a balance between ego and reality. Steve was no angel, but an angel would have floundered and failed where he succeeded.

Sometimes you do need a Steve.