Soldering iron

[Mackem]

Any recommendations from Amazon.co.uk for a soldering iron and whatnot for simply desoldering / soldering Cherry MX switches? I know I'll need an iron and a desoldering pump but specific recommendations would be great. Won't be used for anything else than switch soldering.

Cheers.

[Daemon Raccoon]

A temperature controlled one is a must, since most things use RoHS solders these days that need hotter temps to melt. A wide chisel tip is also needed.

[Mackem]

Any product recommendations? Not really looking to buy anything too expensive as I need to desolder and solder one switch.

[jdcarpe]

You didn't like this one I linked you on GH?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004X25LW8/

What do Deskthoritarians think of that pick?

Of course, I still stick with the general recommendation of a Yihua 936 for a budget setup, which you can always find on eBay, shipping from China.

[matt3o]

I've got this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Qtx-703-123UK-D ... B000L97ZWG

it's pretty decent.

Anyway since you need it just for 1 switch... well... go with this http://www.amazon.co.uk/CostMad-Solderi ... B004MZYQZ4

[kint]

A temperature controlled one is a must, since most things use RoHS solders these days that need hotter temps to melt. A wide chisel tip is also needed.

I call bullshit on that statement.

Get the station matt3o linked this one, it is a known one and seems to be ok, as they are sold for some time now, and don't have major flaws. If you plan to use it for more than 2 years get some replacement tips and maybe a replacement iron too. station, tips, iron

As for desoldering pumps, any 5$ one will do, like this one

[Mackem]

I bought this one. It seems decent enough. Got some 63/37 rosin core solder with 2% flux as well as a desoldering pump and a few other bits and bobs.

[Parak]

A temperature controlled one is a must, since most things use RoHS solders these days that need hotter temps to melt. A wide chisel tip is also needed.

I call bullshit on that statement.

Which part of that statement is bullshit?

[Mackem]

On another note, anyone know where I can get a single MX Red switch? KeyboardCo have them but including delivery it was going to cost over £6 for a single switch!

[Muirium]

I have a few spares. But delivery would still probably cost more than the switch!

[HzFaq]

PM me your address, I can send you a couple.

[Muirium]

Take him up on his offer. Bad things happen when you have no backup!

[Mackem]

Thank you HzFaq, very kind

[kint]

A temperature controlled one is a must, since most things use RoHS solders these days that need hotter temps to melt. A wide chisel tip is also needed.

I call bullshit on that statement.

Which part of that statement is bullshit?

sorry, in this generalization imo all of it.
I'm assuming you're talking "temperature setting" by the user - as all of the irons are "controlled" in some way.

ROHS 2006 made lead free solder mandatory for manufacturers. Leadfree has a melting point of ~220°C vs leaded has one around 190°C. Typically you choose around 100°C more for soldering, so any iron that can deliver 350°C (as in: any iron apart from the real crappy 10$ ones) is suitable for soldering ROHS compliant.
Soldering is about getting the required heat, and just that, into the components as fast as possible. No more.

So with lead free you want 320°C at the components in no time. Temperature setting will do nothing for you in this way. In fact it's rather hindering, because soldering beginners will crank the heat up when they don't get along with 350°C. But atopof 350 °C you start burning flux, and the danger of grilling components increases rapidly. And they'll do that because their iron can't compensate the temp drop in an acceptable time. In other words: when on a budget, skip fancy temperature setting, go with a quality iron that'll push heat instead. As in: wattage and quality build with good temp sensing.

Bigger tips deliver more heat into the component than smaller ones so I'll go with you on that. But if you have a capable station, you can choose a smaller tip as the station will compensate for drops. So in general, a wide chisel (what size anyway) ain't needed. you'll choose the biggest one that handles the situation comfortably, but only to reduce the time the components are exposed to heat. As far as MX switches go - they'll tolerate a lot of that.

[Parak]

I'm assuming you're talking "temperature setting" by the user - as all of the irons are "controlled" in some way.

Well, yes, because even a basic variable temp soldering station is a better buy than the even more basic simple soldering irons.

ROHS 2006 made lead free solder mandatory for manufacturers. Leadfree has a melting point of ~220°C vs leaded has one around 190°C. Typically you choose around 100°C more for soldering, so any iron that can deliver 350°C (as in: any iron apart from the real crappy 10$ ones) is suitable for soldering ROHS compliant.
Soldering is about getting the required heat, and just that, into the components as fast as possible. No more.

So with lead free you want 320°C at the components in no time. Temperature setting will do nothing for you in this way. In fact it's rather hindering, because soldering beginners will crank the heat up when they don't get along with 350°C. But atopof 350 °C you start burning flux, and the danger of grilling components increases rapidly. And they'll do that because their iron can't compensate the temp drop in an acceptable time. In other words: when on a budget, skip fancy temperature setting, go with a quality iron that'll push heat instead. As in: wattage and quality build with good temp sensing.

But... you linked a temperature controlled station... but I digress. Realistically, the point of using a temperature controlled station with ROHS solder is that you can turn it up to tackle ROHS or larger thermal masses when needed, but you can also turn it down to avoid unnecessary heat when working with regular solder. Just like with any tool, a user should learn how to use it, and using a tool wrong is not really a reason to suggest a simpler one.

In addition, the only control that most temperature controlled irons use is basically a setting that tells it how much power to pump into the heater. This has little relevance to the actual temperature at the tip due to many factors, and stations that can sense or calibrate that in some manner are much more expensive.

Bigger tips deliver more heat into the component than smaller ones so I'll go with you on that. But if you have a capable station, you can choose a smaller tip as the station will compensate for drops. So in general, a wide chisel (what size anyway) ain't needed. you'll choose the biggest one that handles the situation comfortably, but only to reduce the time the components are exposed to heat. As far as MX switches go - they'll tolerate a lot of that.

The size and configuration of the tip should always reflect the type of component that one is working on. For TH soldering, a chisel or at least a hoof tip of 1.5-2.5mm size is highly recommended. Chinese generic stations really suck at having decent temperature recovery as well as tip plating. Using the wrong tip for the job just makes working with them much worse. Conicals will rapidly oxidize or lose their plating especially when used for desoldering, combined with higher temperatures. Obviously, more tip plating = more tip life, and conicals have the least amount of plating due to their configuration.

A simple test is to use a thermocouple on the tip working area to see how fast the set temperature on the station is reached after initially turning it on. The best and quite expensive stations take a few seconds. Chinese generics can take upwards of 30 seconds - YMMV, as some are somewhat better than others, tip choice and freshness, etc. So as the temperature drops during soldering or desoldering, they'll take comparatively much longer to be able to work on the next area to solder.

Pardon the minor thread derailment.

TL;DR: I like soldering.

[Mackem]

So what heat do I want for the 60W station I bought for soldering / desoldering switches? I'm going to be using some 63/37 rosin core solder, 2% flux. I don't want to go overboard with the heat I guess, but thought I'd ask people with more experience than me.

[kint]

so do I. As Mackem seems settled I don't see anything wrong in derailling a thread...

I'm assuming you're talking "temperature setting" by the user - as all of the irons are "controlled" in some way.

Well, yes, because even a basic variable temp soldering station is a better buy than the even more basic simple soldering irons...

As for that...one vs two.

...But... you linked a temperature controlled station... but I digress. ..

I linked the 931 station because Mackem said he wants to buy from Amazon.co.uk. And the Ersa Multitips are highly overpriced there. Otherwise I would have linked here where they cost 31GBP. And would have had to explain that he likely needs a power plug adapter since Ersa never got the international drift really - sadly. The 931 station is on the market for roughly 6 years now and their flaws are more or less known. google ZHONGDI ZD-931. I stumbled over this when I was in the market after my Multitip broke some time ago.
TL,DR: The iron has the same problem like Wellers older irons, those 3 screws, and the capnut but thats it. The heating element is shot after roughly 2 years in most cases (hence I recommended a spare iron), the handle is said to get quite warm after time, and the ever so important replacement tips are available for 6+ years now, for rather cheap.
Altogether that's why I linked to it (too), not because its temp controlled/sensed. Which it is btw. Heating element contains a thermocouple. It is a nifty little station for that price...

... Realistically, the point of using a temperature controlled station with ROHS solder is that you can turn it up to tackle ROHS or larger thermal masses when needed, but you can also turn it down to avoid unnecessary heat when working with regular solder. Just like with any tool, a user should learn how to use it, and using a tool wrong is not really a reason to suggest a simpler one.
In addition, the only control that most temperature controlled irons use is basically a setting that tells it how much power to pump into the heater. This has little relevance to the actual temperature at the tip due to many factors, and stations that can sense or calibrate that in some manner are much more expensive. ...

I disagree. The point of using a temperature sensed station is that you set the temperature doing the job and the station pushes the heat as needed. Regardless of large mass areas or anything else. When you get sticky on large mass you choose a bigger tip. Still get sticky - choose a bigger station... That's why metcal and Magnastat are so higly regarded. Instant regulation, that - of course- requires good sensing (curie temp) and some power behind it. The difference between leaded and leadfree solder is rather irrelevant resp a one way route -imo- it should be capable of going 350°C. I don't see the need to go below 320°C when using leaded, I do all soldering at 320 degree setting, other factors compensate for that. But that may just be my opinion, ymmv.
I do agree that the temp sensing ain't 100% exactly tip temperature in most cases, except Metcal ofc.

... The size and configuration of the tip should always reflect the type of component that one is working on. For TH soldering, a chisel or at least a hoof tip of 1.5-2.5mm size is highly recommended. Chinese generic stations really suck at having decent temperature recovery as well as tip plating. Using the wrong tip for the job just makes working with them much worse. Conicals will rapidly oxidize or lose their plating especially when used for desoldering, combined with higher temperatures. Obviously, more tip plating = more tip life, and conicals have the least amount of plating due to their configuration.

A simple test is to use a thermocouple on the tip working area to see how fast the set temperature on the station is reached after initially turning it on. The best and quite expensive stations take a few seconds. Chinese generics can take upwards of 30 seconds - YMMV, as some are somewhat better than others, tip choice and freshness, etc. So as the temperature drops during soldering or desoldering, they'll take comparatively much longer to be able to work on the next area to solder.

That's the point. Chinese generic. You don't know what you get with a station because as as soon as problems occur the even more shiny followup model with .5°C display appears. Now as for ERSAdur tips vs chinese generic....
And tips are wear items, just like the solder itself, which most people don't know. "There is 4 of them included" - all fine. 2 years later they are no longer available. That's why I'll always recommend a known branded tool.

I'm with you in most cases. Problem is -imo-: "temperature control" in most cases is like the display on a Logitech G15. To get a really good temp sensing/controlled station you need to cash out at least 150€. And it will be an analogue one no fancy display...uuh.oh

btw I use a Pace with TD-100 iron. Wouldn't trade it for JBC .

[kint]

So what heat do I want for the 60W station I bought for soldering / desoldering switches? I'm going to be using some 63/37 rosin core solder, 2% flux. I don't want to go overboard with the heat I guess, but thought I'd ask people with more experience than me.

More heat = more wear to the tip. Your solder has roughly a melting point of 190°C. My guess is that any setting below 270°C won't bring a satisfying experience. I wouldn't go much higher than 300°C as a beginner with that solder, if it doesn't work nicely, train on some old PCBs. You want to be able to get a solder point done in below 3 seconds. For desoldering you can go up to 350°C but again more heat more wear to the tip. Solder is an important factor for heat carriage so always tin the tip with some fresh solder, even when desoldering from time to time. And if possible stay away from the fumes.

Edit: The 350°C for desoldering, I implied you are just after the switches. At that temperature the danger of burning the solder pads on old PCB increases too.

[Mackem]

Yeah I'm literally desoldering one switch and soldering a new one in.

[Vierax]

TY guys for the lesson I know why I suck at this skill : need better tools

Is it wise to use a 60W soldering gun like this for desolder switches on an old PCB ?

[Daemon Raccoon]

If you're not planning on reusing the PCB at all and generally don't give a fuck, it'd work.

[kint]

...Is it wise to use a 60W soldering gun like this for desolder switches on an old PCB ?

The tips on these are heated directly by current flow through it, as opposed to regular irons. To make this system work it uses low voltage but high current - they are likely to fry electronic circuitry. It won't affect a MX switch much but as Daemon Raccoon said the PCB will likely get shot during desoldering. They are good for tinning fat cable ends like speaker wire or cutting through plastic rope - you'll see them in every sailors shop selling rope. But that's about it.

[Vierax]

hmm okay, I use a gun to salvage components before the device goes to trash.
I really need to invest in a reliable soldering iron and some flat tips to mod my Tipro : As you explained before, my 30W noname soldering station with a cylindrical tip lightly unglued some traces of unused places (I had to remove the spring of one of the MXBlack under 2unit keys) so it's not a tool I want to reuse for a desoldering work even if I success to find a rectangular replacement tip.

[kint]

make sure you'll heat more of the switch wire than touching/scratching the pad itself with the tip. You'll want no mechanical stress to the pad at all. Remove the iron tip just the fraction of a second before you trigger your desolder pump. There is some action and motion when the spring in the pump actuates which can cause motion of the tip, which can then scratch the pad. Most pumps are powerful enough to suck from a distance of 5mm to. Sorry I don't use wick regularly so I can't comment on that.

[Vierax]

I carefully don't touch the pcb but it seems that my Basetech JLT-13 isn't powerful enough to melt quickly the solder to not heat too much the pad, even at full power. It can take more than ten seconds between contact and melting so this is why I think the pad suffers heating. Is this ERSA 30W iron enough for this kind of work or It needs at least 40W ?
I don't use wick too, I tried but I had worst results. I should retry with a branded tool and a proper chisel tip.

[kint]

10 seconds is way off. This isn't only related to wattage, I did solder with a 15W iron for some time and it works for switches too. Tbh I suspect you have a worn/oxydized tip much rather than a problem with the power of the station. Solderd some plastic of MX switches? scratched over metal with it?
Try the following:
Heat the station to what you think is around 350°C, say 2/3 or 3/4 of the dial. Have a wet/moist cloth and a good chunk of solder wire ready. Now continously feed the tip with solder wire directly. You just melt the solder on the tip, in a way until 3, 4 drops of solder have dropped off of the tip. Move the solder while doing from the very tip up to maybe 5mm- 1cm away from the very tip, twist the tip. In other words make sure that everything of the originally plated tip was covered with solder, the yellow area as seen here.
Then take the wet clot and wipe the tip. Be careful as its hot, but also apply *some* pressure. Rub it like you would clean a dirty plate while dishwashing. Redo.
Switch the station off and inspect the tip. The tip should look very consistently matte silver. like this one: although different shape there should be no black spots or worse black areas on the tip. If you find some, rub with the cloth. If they don't go away switch the station on, wait till its hot and feed the solder wire directly to the black spot. If it doesn't melt easiliy there you've found a oxydized area. As in: the tip is toast.
Normally you'ld buy a new tip and be good to go. When, say, it's saturday night and you want to finish your job and have no replacement tip ready you can -carefully- sand the black spots with some 400 or finer grain metal sand paper. Very, very, very lightly, single strokes and then check. Just to remove the oxydized material. wrap the cold tip in solder wire, 3 layers, and very tight, then switch the station on and dial up to maximum heat. When everything has molten you might have a usable tip again. If not - redo. if you do that too often you'll damage the tin plating of the tip -> toast, but it was already before.

As for the Ersa irons: I'ld go with the multitip series, as in C-15, C-25. C-25 most likely. Get a replacement tip, a small chisel one, like the 172KD too and keep the conical as spare or when you do fine pitch, SMD, that stuff.

[Vierax]

What a lesson ! Thank you so much
As I didn't really take care of the tip you must be right : I just looked at it and it's really dirty. I'll do that this afternoon, checking the 350°C setting with the thermoprobe of my multimeter (the recurrent problem of setting any analogic device as old wave synthesisers ^^ ). I think I have brutally sanded it already so I don't expect a miracle. There is no replacement tip in the box but it seems that Ø 6 mm is not so rare in chisel.

The Ersa is very tempting, I add it to my basket

[kint]

The Ersa Multipro is even nicer as it uses the same tips the more expensive Ersa Stations use, so the choice of tips is way bigger than on the Multitip series. But it's another 5€ more and those who really have use for concave tips or conical .5mm tips will likely go with a more expensive station anyway.

A simple hack to a plug in iron would be to use a light bulb dimmer with the power plug. This is power regulation not temperature regulation but it can come handy. You can also easily turn the power down when leaving the workspace for a few minutes so the iron won't heat unnecessarily during that time (tip wear).

Back in the days when soldering was about bulding the roofs gutter and not electronics there were only pure copper tips, unplated. Pure copper oxydizes real fast especially when heated. So when the tips won't take solder due to oxydation they got filed some and then densified with some very light hammer strokes. A relic from that time often found in hardware stores until today is ammonium chloride mostly found in the shape of small bars. With heat these degrade to hydrogenchloride, basically hydrochloric acid which is also the ingredient in solder fluid. This will etch away the copperoxide from the tip, and oxides from the workpiece.
You should carefully avoid those in modern plated tips. They'll degrade the tin plating in modern "longlife" tips too. Longlife in this context refers to simple plated tips as opposed to pure copper, not the even longer life special composition tips some manufacturers offer, like the Ersadur or diamond class tips from pace.

The tin plating of modern electronic iron tips is brittle and it's only about 0,3mm thick. So too much heat stress, mechanical stress like scratching on metal (or sandpaer), prying with the tip, anything like that can cause cracks in the plating, which will then result in oxydation. It's only a matter of time until the tip will be unusable. So avoid that. Also avoid burning plaastic with the tip. PVC for example, which is a common plastic for cable isolation, releases hydrogenchloride when getting hot and there we have the hydrochloric acid again. On real cheap plated chinese tips the tin plating can even popp of when getting stress.

Now when all things fail, and as the very last resort sand the whole tip down to the pure copper and tin it like mentioned above with layers of solder wire before heating the tip up. A tip like this will last you from several minutes up to some work hours depending on how much care you take.

Any tip, even new longlife tips benefit when you melt some solder on it before switching it off for storage. Just leave a drop of solder on it and wipe it away before you use it again next time. This will prevent oxidation of the tin plating of the tip. As for cleaning a tip when soldering: pot cleaning sponges can be found in most supermarkets and are cheap. Be sure to buy these which are based on cellulose I think as opposed to the even cheaper plastic ones like these. Using the soft side of course not the scratchy side. Just keep them moist not wet. There is a temperature drop/shock for the tip so a lot of people are moving to these dry cleaners instead made of brass - 2€ more will give you a stand for your iron too. Avoid the steel variant from the supermarkt, it'll scratch the tin palting of the tip.

One last thing that can be a lifesaver is the edsyn tip tinner. One shouldn't use it normally, think of it more like the blade of a pocket knife when you really need a screwdriver. It is basically flux with some tin in it which will replate the tip when you stick it hot into it. There are different brands out there, with different names on it and if you just solder one or two switches you won't need it, but if you solder regularly and run into it for say like 5€ or less just drop it into the basket.