A proposal for a new SSK

[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[matt3o]

I removed the picture because I don't want to hurt anybody's feeling (even with no apparent reason). Someone quoted my message, if you want my unholy picture to disappear from Earth you also have to contact him.

Honestly at this point, I don't care if you post any other picture or not.

[M'er Forever]

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[matt3o]

doh.png (10.98 KiB) Viewed 3463 times

[webwit]

Should have only the standard 3 led somewhere at the right. So, for example, it doesn't matter how you map caps lock.
It would be nice to have invisible/sub-surface led when not lit, like the μTRON.

Spoiler:

[7bit]

Yes, this would be the best solution, except it might not work well with black cases.

Another way would be to have them in the key caps, so they do not distrub people who don't need them (just leave them away when building the board).

ps: Welcome back!

[scottc]

Another way would be to have them in the key caps, so they do not distrub people who don't need them (just leave them away when building the board).

This would be great, I'd just use keycaps without LED windows and never have to think about the ridiculous lights again!

In fact, looking at my SSK, it doesn't even have the LEDs...

[Muirium]

Pretty ironic, right? Because that built in numpad (which I like far more than a real numpad, and got used to on PowerBook keyboards when they copied it too) is the best reason for a num lock light I've ever encountered! Ideally right in the cap, like Apple did with Num and Caps lock, but Webwit's right that the next best place is grouped together somewhere fixed on the case, as goes tradition and many a downward glance…

[M'er Forever]

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[scottc]

Pretty ironic, right? Because that built in numpad (which I like far more than a real numpad, and got used to on PowerBook keyboards when they copied it too) is the best reason for a num lock light I've ever encountered! Ideally right in the cap, like Apple did with Num and Caps lock, but Webwit's right that the next best place is grouped together somewhere fixed on the case, as goes tradition and many a downward glance…

Yeah, I actually hadn't noticed that before! It seems bizarre, since this usage of NumLock makes a lot more sense to me than "tradidional" NumLock. That is, at least, in my opinion... though I do use NumLock (once, to turn it off) on my Model F so that I can use the arrows/etc on the numpad.

[M'er Forever]

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[scottc]

Pretty ironic, right? Because that built in numpad (which I like far more than a real numpad, and got used to on PowerBook keyboards when they copied it too) is the best reason for a num lock light I've ever encountered! Ideally right in the cap, like Apple did with Num and Caps lock, but Webwit's right that the next best place is grouped together somewhere fixed on the case, as goes tradition and many a downward glance…

How about posting a drawing showing exactly how you'd squeeze an LED into a single-unit sized Model M cap and avoid issues with the wires breaking from fatigue, interfering with the stem, spring, barrel, pivot-plate, etc.?

Not so easy, is it? That's why the LED's are where they are in these renders.

There's no need to be so vitriolic in your responses. Nobody was even criticising your design. We simply said that it was an ideal place for an LED.

[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[Muirium]

I'll have to break out my crayons sometime to show what I mean. But here's an idea I know will make Mr. Beardsmore cringe: invisible LEDs like how Apple does them these days — using lasered holes in the case metal that are too small to see without a microscope but which let light through just fine — in the shape of C N and S (or whatever the order is to be). Then caps lock is a glowing C right at the top right of the case, apparently a work of magic. Most nifty.

Of course, it'd need a metal case. Or for a metal surface in that spot, at least.

The reason Daniel hates Apple's lights is because they're impossible to tell people to look for unless they're on. "What bloody light?" An unlit indicator is an ugly thing, but has its value for the uninitiated.

[M'er Forever]

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[Muirium]

Tradition! Everyone's quite used to the lock trio living together up the top right, ages away from the Caps key. I'd say that moving them down into the blank zone between the navigation island and cursor T is no stretch at all, and pretty smart. The truly elegant approach is to integrate the indicators into the caps — can you just imagine the legends lighting up with the clarity of those lasered holes! — but that's a stretch all right. Up there with metal caps and full backlighting…

[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[REVENGE]

This looks really good. Having the integrated LED design will be a good basis for shrinking down into a 60% layout too.

[7bit]

Perfect. Now get rid of the 3 fields (what are they good for?) on top of the keyboard.

[Kurk]

Wow, I love the idea of "LED spotlights"! Very elegant. A problem, however, would probably be the visibility in full daylight. But hey, one can always close the curtains/blinds

And here's my input about Fn-lock, Fn etc: I like having a Fn and Fn lock key. That being said, the location of these keys is not trivial. Options are: [1] between Alt and Ctrl, [2] right of the right shift key which would need to be shorter (1.75 u) and [3] right of F12. I like having only 1 unit space between Alt and Ctrl which in turn leaves no space for a right Win key. This pretty much leads to this design of yours:

WinSSK_nested-numpad_tri-color_media-keys3b.jpeg
http://deskthority.net/resources/image/10624

But there's more: wouldn't it be possible to merge the integrated numpad layer into the function layer?
As far as I can see there are no keys shared between these two layers.

[Muirium]

LED spotlights are a stunning idea. The best thing about them is that they seem eminently doable even with the current Model M internals. Now I want them on every key on the board for lighting's sake! It's pretty big these days as it appeals to normal punters more than us nerds. Especially with "Ninja legends" like Filco's on the front side of the caps. But that's a whole other model…

I also like the smaller space bar and more mods approach. I'd surely make good use of those with a programmable controller.

As for Fn and Fn Lock: here's a trick right out of Apple's book (and one they did well, unlike their keyboard layouts these days).

The usual, or at least obvious, way to use the keyboard shortcuts for semi-modal features like Exposé and Dashboard is:

Hit the key. (E.g. F12 for Dashboard.)
Use the mode.
Hit the key again when you’re done.

It ends up there’s a second way to use these shortcuts: press-and-hold:

Press and hold the key down.
Use the mode.
Release the key when you’re done.

I’m not going to argue that this saves any time or effort, but ever since I learned this trick, I’ve been using it whenever I invoke Dashboard and the application windows mode of Exposé. I mean, if you’re going to be using some Dashboard widget for a while, sure, you’ll want to use the regular “tap the key” mechanism — but if you just want to glance at one or more status-displaying widgets (e.g. Weather), the press-and-hold mechanism feels just right. It’s also worth noting that the Exposé shortcuts work like this in Mac OS X 10.3, too.

Daring Fireball back when it was a Mac site! But the point stands: keys can be interpreted smartly. So, say, pressing the Fn key and releasing it without pressing anything else can be read as "toggle Fn Lock". While pressing Fn then another key then releasing them both means "instantaneous Fn, no lock". That way you could get away with just the one kind of Fn. Its light can be all the feedback a user needs to learn its logic.

[JBert]

So, say, pressing the Fn key and releasing it without pressing anything else can be read as "toggle Fn Lock". While pressing Fn then another key then releasing them both means "instantaneous Fn, no lock".

Ehr, no. This sounds good on paper / screen, but once you start typing you might hit the Fn key, change your mind just before pressing a sequence, type some more and then notice that you invoked something from the second layer.

If you want to implement an Fn lock using the Fn key then it needs some sequence which is not too hard to do, yet which also can't be done accidentally. The Poker for example has some kind of Fn lock using Fn + Space, which I triggered far more often than I wanted (thank god for the Soarer-mod).

EDIT: This may make sense for shortcuts, but in that case the program knows what you want to do and knows when an action has ended. The keyboard is just the "dumb" input device, so it can't know when the Fn lock is important and when it isn't.

[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[M'er Forever]

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[bhtooefr]

I'll note that your logo is upside down.

(G, H, and B are the keys that the trackpoint is nestled in between.)

Also, it may make sense for all three of those keys to be represented.