Group Build prototyping phase

[Brian8bit]

I was bored, so for the Mac users.

Arrow keys on the right (up via fn+shift): http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... 895d73b527
Arrow keys on WASD via fn layer: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... bade768774

If I knew the most common key cap sizes I'd have a go at making those more accurate. I've sized those examples above just for symmetry.

Added a version with keycap legends: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... 458e751da8
Added a poker-esque version: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... bd10cb38ad

[matt3o]

I'm telling you... if you want a full ALPS keyboard like this



you better find yourself a Focus FK2001 because I have the plate ready for it

[scottc]

Exactly like that... except without the big-ass enter!

[elmin]

Another design I'll throw into the mix:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... 2aaaea20e2

[Memoren]

I've never seen a keyboard with a layout like that before would definitely be unique

[elmin]

I use a mac, and I use emacs a lot, so for me it seems like it could be a big improvement. I'm always hitting key combos like Ctrl+Alt+something or Cmd+Alt+something (Cmd-Alt-Shift-V is one I'm particularly frustrated with these days), and emacs has many key combos that I can't take advantage of due to the lack of a hyper or super modifier. Finally, I've noticed that I always hit space with my right hand and I'm always contorting my left thumb to reach the modifiers over there.

I'm sure it's possible it will totally suck, but that's what prototyping is for, right?

[aaron]

What about this?

2014-01-01-221140_797x284_scrot.png (27.17 KiB) Viewed 5235 times

[matt3o]

wow you people are crazy in a good way

[ullr]

I made this hypothetical layout, drawing inspiration from the kishsaver and poker layouts as well as my own ideas. What do you think?

[Muirium]

Interesting idea, moving the alphas one unit to the right. I've always been annoyed how homerow isn't dead centre in a 60%. I like what you've done to balance this up.

Not sure how practical the arrow keys would be, however. I find I frequently press left then right and up then down. Those would be much more difficult with this arrangement.

Also I wonder where you'll get caps to match the numrow. That is unless you're thinking of blanks.

[matt3o]

that would totally mess up with my brain my muscle memory would punch me in da face every time I'd get close to the keyboard

apart from that. I like it

[ullr]

Hadn't put much thought into actually producing it. When I was making the layout, one of my biggest concerns was keeping a standard 6.25 unit space bar. I would probably use mostly if not all blanks.

Also, I think that you're right about the arrow keys. They probably would be more intuitive with left and right on the left side and up and down on the right side.

I had an older, similar layout mocked up in a regular image editor with a complete function layer - one of the ideas I had was FN + A bracket key (<,>; [,]; (,); {,}) or a quote would insert two quotes and then a left key press, in most cases putting the cursor between the brackets or quotes - this always seemed like an intuitive feature that was "missing" from common layouts.

I was never sure if the function keys would be best served all on the top row on the function layer with F1 on the zero or if I should offset them one place and have F12 lower down. I always thought that zero should go before one as well, I'm not sure why it ended up the way that it is.

[collector of junk]

after watching that cherry commodore keyboard selling well on ebay I thought

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... b3ede41794

or themes along that line
mind you I've always liked the big ibm terminal boards
what about "cut along here" lines for those who want to cut parts out/off although this could increase the price???

[scottc]

what about "cut along here" lines for those who want to cut parts out/off although this could increase the price???

I remember someone suggested having a modular layout, maybe with cables like in the ErgoDox. Could be interesting to have a 60% "base", a navigation section, a numpad section, a top "F1-F12" section, and maybe a left-hand-side "F1-F10" AT-style layout

[Muirium]

So long as you can plug them together however you like. I'd put things left of the 60% section, for example, where they belong…

[elmin]

Random idea on the "modular" side... what about using layers to combine functions on the numpad? Something like this:

numpad_combo.png (46.49 KiB) Viewed 5023 times

You could use Fn, Nav or Num Lock to sticky-select a layer or you could have a dominant one (set by a hardware switch?) and use the others via chording.

[collector of junk]

use a cherry mx lock (7 bit needs us to order more )

[Vierax]

I had an older, similar layout mocked up in a regular image editor with a complete function layer - one of the ideas I had was FN + A bracket key (<,>; [,]; (,); {,}) or a quote would insert two quotes and then a left key press, in most cases putting the cursor between the brackets or quotes - this always seemed like an intuitive feature that was "missing" from common layouts.

I made macros on my keyboard to make pair of signs in a single press : «», <>, (), [], {} and "" on two macro keys with different modifiers under thumbs. It's practical when you are coding (even editing wiki pages or BBCode in forum replies) no risk to forget the closing sign and having a weird result
But I didn't add the left arrow key press and now I will since I don't use special editors like Vim. Thanks for the tip !

[rapax24]

well, i'm looking for somethinglike this actually (quick 5 minutes sketch).
probably just the left side to keep it smaller sized

[matt3o]

Okay crazy idea.

pcb.png (12.23 KiB) Viewed 4885 times

Create a series of mini-PCBs where you solder the switch directly. The PCBs are all easily connectable one another in rows/cols.

The PCBs would come in different sizes: 1 switch, 2sw, 3sw, 4sw, 5sw. You just need to connect them together and get whatever layout you want. Staggered or symmetric. Minimal, 60%, 75%, full. With or without function row. Etc...

[photekq]

Okay crazy idea.

pcb.png

Create a series of mini-PCBs where you solder the switch directly. The PCBs are all easily connectable one another in rows/cols.

The PCBs would come in different sizes: 1 switch, 2sw, 3sw, 4sw, 5sw. You just need to connect them together and get whatever layout you want. Staggered or symmetric. Minimal, 60%, 75%, full. With or without function row. Etc...

Not sure if you've seen it, but something similar has been made over at Geekhack. Quite a nice idea, actually :

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=557 ... msg1254460

[JBert]

The idea sounds good, but the PCB can't be too tall / wide or you can't stack your rows close enough together. Maybe you can stuff the solder points into the corner between Cherry switches?

At any rate it would be a great and cleaner way to get your diodes connected, and it's pretty much freeform.

The Geekhack idea of single switch PCBs sounds like it does lose the mechanical stability of 5 switches stuck together.

[Muirium]

Intriguing. I could use a version of this for my planned M84 and Matias builds. Or custom PCBs entirely.

But where are the diodes?

[matt3o]

oh gosh everything has already been done...

well anyway it means that it can be actually done.

My idea was a bit more complex than that btw. First of all, you should try to grab the biggest chunks and use the 1 and 2 units only where really needed.

Secondly, I'd like to mount the modules over a sort of specifically crafted breadboard, so soldering is really reduced to the minimum.

Of course diodes have to be added, the picture is just to give you an idea. We could also add leds.

[Vierax]

A nice idea Matt,
The PCB can handle Alps too but for a column staggered layout like ergodox, leds for MX will be on a side, not on top or bottom. And for the same layout with Alps, a legended set will have to be 90° turned too
I already thought about a modular mounting plate with some screw holes to fix them together : the 90° led issue will be fixed but Alps and MX haven't the same hole size. And it requires a lot of bolt to make a board, like a Meccano assembly

[matt3o]

I believe you need a different PCB design for vertical aligned keyboards

[Vierax]

As I said, it depends what you plan to do with it, a vertical kb with MX and without backlit is feasible with your design.

BTW, did you plan to run another metalcut groupbuy during this year ?

[matt3o]

okay sorry if I left this a little behind. The granite set totally sucked all my free time. I need another couple of days to cool down and then I can get back to this.

I wanted to home-CNC as much as possible, or at least the PCBs, but I still don't have the CNC machine. I thought I found a decent one in Europe but after 2 months they still don't have availability so I'm looking for a backup plan. Any ideas?

I could buy one from US, and I would also have a proxy but I would prefer to get it here if possible.

Anyway the laser cut thing is still valid and I'll go back prototyping starting next week.

[Muirium]

Matias…

[Vierax]

Take your time to rest Matt, there's no rush and we don't want you to have a nervous breakdown.
Sorry I can't help for the CNC, no XP with those beasts