Apple II reference page

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've moved Apple IIc to [wiki]Apple II[/wiki] — please add any other switches used to this page (with references) and to the relevant switch pages. I've added everything I know at the moment/could find on other pages.

[mr_a500]

I see that orange ALPS for Apple IIc are listed at Sept. 1988-1990. That must mean they switched to orange ALPS for the Apple IIc Plus, which was a different model from the regular Apple IIc. (different keyboard layout, different internal floppy, different colour case)

Pity... I was hoping to find an Apple IIc (non-Plus) with orange ALPS.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm only going by what I referenced — but that references more sources itself, so I evidently need to read further.

It's not something I know a lot about, but I don't have any minions.

[bhtooefr]

Not only that, but the IIc Plus wasn't available outside of the US market. (And, it was 4 MHz instead of 1.) But, yes, that was what I was trying to get across.

Also, there's the IIGS, which used the original Apple Desktop Bus Keyboard, which had orange Alps SKCM, and I believe some might have used a Mitsumi switch?

[mr_a500]

I was surprised that the Apple IIc Plus wasn't even authorized to be sold in Canada. Usually (English) Canada gets things intended only for the US and they just avoid selling things in Quebec. (which needs French)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The IIGS keyboard was orange Alps, and white SMK:

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t6375.html

Sadly there's nothing on the PCB anywhere that indicates SMK (logo, or SMK-style part numbers). I've seen "SHOWA" (the S in SMK) moulded into the case of the SMK version of the Keyboard II (confirming that at least the latching action "white Monterey" is genuine SMK), but I have no idea whether there's anything like that in the IIGS keyboard. It would be nice to prove conclusively that white Monterey is SMK.

Nice to see that someone's updated the Apple II page with the corrections.

[bhtooefr]

Split the IIc Plus out into its own sub-section of the IIc (much like the IIe Enhanced is split out), and added the IIGS referencing the ADB keyboard.

Also, hrm, should check what the IIe Platinum has.

Also, how do we want to handle formatting this? Apple typically stylized (in both logotypes and in ASCII text) the models as the following:

Apple ][
Apple ][+
Apple //e (for original and Enhanced)
Apple //c
Apple IIc Plus
Apple IIe (for Platinum)
Apple IIGS in logotypes, Apple IIgs in plain ASCII text

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm using "II" for everything. The Topre Realforce is still "Realforce" even if Topre can't tell 'A' from 'Λ' (lambda/variant Л/make-the-alphabet-up-as-you-go-along).

[mecano]

Not sure if it's good to post this here but here goes an ebay auction with some more pics of what looks like a IIc type 1.c keyboard! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRES-RARE-CL ... 51c9370606

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Well, the trick is get the photos onto the wiki. eBay auctions, and the photos therein, are subject to random disappearance. Some pages stick around for ages; for example, HaaTa asked on my behalf (since I don't have an eBay account and I would have no reputation even if I did) if we could have these photos:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270795152459
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270794697731

They're useful reference photos for scrawly switches in Focus keyboards. I don't know what HaaTa said, only that there was no response. The photos are now several years old, and still there (as is the listing), and surely of no use to the seller, but we still can't have them.

Other photo sets vanish long before the auction. Officially, "Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing" (says one listing that vanished and took away a wonderful set of photos) but in reality, I don't know what triggers auctions to go, as those FK-2001 auctions both ended in August 2011! I don't know if eBay days are made up of Microsoft minutes, or what, as it seems a bit random to me.

I know that the Type 1.C keyboard exists, because I wrote about it, but we need the photos to be on the wiki where they're secure and and reliable, easy to access, and hassle-free for people trying to read the page through Google Translate who just want a nice easy page. It's important to remember that people will be referencing the wiki who don't speak English (especially the Asian communities), so inline images are much easier to deal with than references to eBay

However, we've been around this loop too many times, and it's clear that the wiki is a dead-end that people just throw cheap plastic keycaps at.

[mecano]

I have sent a message to the seller to be able to use his pictures on the wiki.
Will post his response (and hopefully pics) as soon as I got it.

[mecano]

The seller kindly allows the use of the pictures for the site;
"Bonjour,
Pour faire suite a votre message, Oui vous avez mon accord pour utiliser les photos du clavier Apple IIc pour votre site.
Cordialement"

New pictures added in the wiki.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I see that you didn't credit them to their author. Then again, that's not my problem any more.

[mecano]

Well I know and thought about that but as he doesn't claimed credit for it, what should I suppose to do, put his ebay nickname?
I know I could have ask him his name or such but through ebay it would have looked kinda suspicious, isn't it?
So in the end, I left it as is.
Why "any more"?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If the images aren't credited to anyone, then it appears that either a) you photographed them yourself (when you didn't), or b) you stole the images. Opinions of authors differ—clickykeyboards noted earlier today that we must credit any of their images that we use on the wiki, but some authors couldn't care less about being credited—so it's best to be safe.

I make it a rule that all images on the wiki should be credited—to yourself or to someone else—so that we're all clear on where they came from, and to demonstrate that all images are used with authorisation. It's better to credit all images regardless, even where the author doesn't require it, so that there's nothing left in question.

If I can't get any licence terms off someone, I use "© $Year $author; used at Deskthority with permission". I always cite the author with a hyperlink if I can (e.g. to their website); if they don't give a real name, then that's their choice, and their screen name will have to suffice (I got tired of screen names years ago).

That's assuming there's a description at all — the description is frequently left completely blank. This is even worse when the filename is just random numbers. Images without descriptions are impossible to search for, which means that trying to illustrate a new page by checking if existing images exist (which I've tried numerous times to do), is a futile exercise.

Part of this problem is MediaWiki itself, which doesn't support any kind of image metadata beyond a big empty box and a licence dropdown (that's not configured here). I would ensure that the user is at least prompted for the correct information. There might be an extension for this somewhere.

As for your last question — I don't work on the wiki any more. I need help from the community to gather knowledge and since there's hardly anyone interested, I've hit a brick wall past which I can no longer proceed.

[mecano]

Oh, I see, thank you for your exhaustive response. Will try to get the proper credit if I can't I'll cloak it under my name as I have the authorization from the author.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

"cloak"?

You don't think it's OK to use a person's screen name if their real name isn't available? Plenty of people keep their real name secret, including Sandy and alps.tw.

[mecano]

Yup cloaked as in rights reserved used with permission from the author upped by me, me as the user you can get in touch with through this web site (deskthority) in case of problem.
No I don't believe in crediting with a person's screen name from another location/server/community. Doesn't make sense unless told to do so.
Is this person known upon the internets by this nick? I frankly don't know. Does he care to have his seller screen name be featured on third party sites? Again I don't know.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

So in essence, you're not actually crediting the author. If you cannot come to an arrangement where they're credited correctly, don't upload the image. The image should bear the identity of its author, however they choose to be known. If they're on eBay, just put a link to their eBay user page, i.e. [http:⁄⁄www.ebay.fr⁄usr⁄baostore baostore]. It's not exactly as though their eBay name and page are secret.

[mecano]

But then the netiquette would have me to ask ebay and the author if I can put a link directing to them on this site.
And, I don't know what is the Deskthority policy about outgoing links to commercial sites.
Btw the files are credited to baostore.

[bhtooefr]

You're working on about a 15 year out of date version of netiquette. Seriously, incoming links are considered a good thing. Incoming hotlinks without permission aren't (that is, directly embedding an image from a site that doesn't explicitly allow it, due to the bandwidth usage), but just plain links are fine.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I have never, ever, ever understood why people ask permission to link to a site. I mean, linking between sites is the literal definition of the World Wide Web. If you don't link to other sites, the WWW wouldn't exist.

[mecano]

If my 15 years old netiquette can save me from editing ten times the same entry that's fine

Oh and the WWW can die, we french are still keeping warehouses of minitels just in case (only problem is the keyboard is terrible).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Wowzers, those keyboards .... Ouch.