Group Build prototyping phase

[ekx]

Same thing happened to me... fortunately you can solder 5v and ground to their respective pins and data + & - to the 2 smd resistors next to the traces.

[mr_peck]

My final keyboard design :



Size of keys (only first and second rows are modified, i forgot to permute ESC on this one) :



The us version (but i forgot to permute ESC on this one) :

[matt3o]

I know that keycaps color combo!

[mr_peck]

Yep DSA GRANITE.

[pyrelink]

So, this thread has reinvigorated my interest in building a custom keyboard. My main goal is to build a nice wooden case for it. I have access to a workshop, and have been wanting to make a case out of wood for a while now. Since this seems to be a great way to acquire a plate and a PCB to build around, I figure I might as well start also sourcing some wood and sketching some ideas. Will be following this thread closely, but did want to ask a couple things.

1. What is the most likely plate material we will wind up with? Aluminum?
2. I am guessing this isn't a problem, but just to confirm, would buying only a plate and a PCB from the GB be possible? Depending on my finances once this finally comes to the table, I might just skip on the case if possible.

[Muirium]

We went with stainless steel plates last year at Matteo's suggestion. Apparently, aluminium flexes too much to feel quite right, even with standoffs. So, some of us went with all steel layers, while others went with steel and aluminium hybrids. I alone went for mirror steel! And I still really prefer it.

Certainly, you can join in piecemeal. Our chances of making prices get better with volume aren't much better than last year, frankly, when no two designs were alike! But the more the merrier.

[Nuum]

Don't you have to be carefull with aluminium + steel because of contact/galvanic corrosion? Or does this happen only with certain types of steel?

[Muirium]

Good question. I've only used steel, so I don't know.

[pyrelink]

Don't you have to be carefull with aluminium + steel because of contact/galvanic corrosion? Or does this happen only with certain types of steel?

I think thats only when there is a current running through them... I could be wrong, but in that case, you would just need to make sure that the bottom of the PCB/Teensy are not in contact with the bottom of the case.

[matt3o]

1. What is the most likely plate material we will wind up with? Aluminum?
2. I am guessing this isn't a problem, but just to confirm, would buying only a plate and a PCB from the GB be possible? Depending on my finances once this finally comes to the table, I might just skip on the case if possible.

we are not set yet on the material. Aluminum is preferable because it's flexible and better suited for the plate, but it's also more expensive than all other materials. I could have a wooden or acrylic case and an aluminum plate. Another option would be to have just the bottom layer made of steel just to add weight. But each material we add it increments the final price. I'm still making some tests and asking for quotes. If you have ideas please speak your mind.

I'm in contact with a company that seems very interested in the project and they are willing to help us source all the components. That would be great, quality would be very high and price lower. But I'm not set yet. I believe the next step is to try a wooden prototype.

[pyrelink]

1. What is the most likely plate material we will wind up with? Aluminum?
2. I am guessing this isn't a problem, but just to confirm, would buying only a plate and a PCB from the GB be possible? Depending on my finances once this finally comes to the table, I might just skip on the case if possible.

we are not set yet on the material. Aluminum is preferable because it's flexible and better suited for the plate, but it's also more expensive than all other materials. I could have a wooden or acrylic case and an aluminum plate. Another option would be to have just the bottom layer made of steel just to add weight. But each material we add it increments the final price. I'm still making some tests and asking for quotes. If you have ideas please speak your mind.

I'm in contact with a company that seems very interested in the project and they are willing to help us source all the components. That would be great, quality would be very high and price lower. But I'm not set yet. I believe the next step is to try a wooden prototype.

Okay very cool. My main issue is that I have very little CAD experience. By very little, I mean I really have not put much effort into it, so I am not all that useful there. I will say though, a wooden case would be far nicer as solid pieces. Its tricky since you want to keep costs down, and the best way to do that is to waste as little raw material as possible. The case that I plan to make would be carved directly out of a block of wood, leaving quite a bit of unusable waste.

If the wood case were to instead be made out of layers, I assume they would be cut by some sort of CNC machine? I don't know a ton about CNC machines, but 1 thing that I have noticed is that when wood is often cut by a CNC machine, the edges get a very unique "burnt" color, and texture to them. I believe this is when the wood is cut by a laser style CNC machine. Maybe some people like it, but any wood that I see with that burnt edge, is immediately noticeable to me, and really detracts from the piece. Supposedly this can be fixed by having your CNC machine settings tuned for wood, and increasing the air supply to the machine. No clue what your set up actually is, but the less "charred" the edges the better.

I still think some sort of metal plate would be far better then wood. I just don't see a thin wood plate, feeling nearly as sturdy as a metal plate. Also not sure how good it would feel or sound, compared to metal. And lastly a purely personal preference, darker wood would look nicer as a case? No clue if anyone else feels the same, just throwing that out there as a suggestion.

Finally, I think a solid wood construct would be heavy enough as a case. A layered wood construct, might not be heavy enough. Like has previously been suggested, a heavy metal layer towards the bottom of the case might suffice. The other option would be to add weight in the stand. Having some nicely shaped wood blocks attached to the bottom, to "prop" the keyboard up, with some no slip pads on the bottom, could be enough of a weight increase in itself. I do think it is important - in a wood case, to go as wooden as possible. A metal switch plate is needed, but besides that, I think this "wooden case" should be made with just as much wood as possible.

Again maybe I am crazy, or have no clue what I am saying, maybe I am batman. Just throwing ideas out there...

[SL89]

I still think some sort of metal plate would be far better then wood. I just don't see a thin wood plate, feeling nearly as sturdy as a metal plate. Also not sure how good it would feel or sound, compared to metal. And lastly a purely personal preference, darker wood would look nicer as a case? No clue if anyone else feels the same, just throwing that out there as a suggestion.

Again maybe I am crazy, or have no clue what I am saying, maybe I am batman. Just throwing ideas out there...

Keep the ideas coming, you might be onto something!

What about a Metal / Wood case hybrid. Kind of a audiophile sort of look without being too vintage.
I was thinking someting like a Marantz or even an Atari sort of look.
Like a Lightsaver 'wedge' profile with wood sides and an stainless faceplate.

[pyrelink]

I still think some sort of metal plate would be far better then wood. I just don't see a thin wood plate, feeling nearly as sturdy as a metal plate. Also not sure how good it would feel or sound, compared to metal. And lastly a purely personal preference, darker wood would look nicer as a case? No clue if anyone else feels the same, just throwing that out there as a suggestion.

Again maybe I am crazy, or have no clue what I am saying, maybe I am batman. Just throwing ideas out there...

Keep the ideas coming, you might be onto something!

What about a Metal / Wood case hybrid. Kind of a audiophile sort of look without being too vintage.
I was thinking someting like a Marantz or even an Atari sort of look. Like a lightsaver 'wedge' profile with wood sides and an stainless faceplate.

I was originally thinking nothing but wood+a plate, but I could definitely see a nicely done hybrid. Unlike the Atari, it would need to be done so that the wood, looks and feels like its made of wood, and NOT like you just glued on some veneer.

[SL89]

I was originally thinking nothing but wood+a plate, but I could definitely see a nicely done hybrid. Unlike the Atari, it would need to be done so that the wood, looks and feels like its made of wood, and NOT like you just glued on some veneer.

Just wood would be cool, but I was thinking more like old school stereos / car dashboards with solid wood scales.

Definitely not veneers. Veneers would just be tragic.

[pyrelink]

I was originally thinking nothing but wood+a plate, but I could definitely see a nicely done hybrid. Unlike the Atari, it would need to be done so that the wood, looks and feels like its made of wood, and NOT like you just glued on some veneer.

Just wood would be cool, but I was thinking more like old school stereos / car dashboards with solid wood scales.

Definitely not veneers. Veneers would just be tragic.

Actually I have a really good idea for an awesome looking case. No clue how feasible it would be (cost wise) though. I also have poor drawing skills and no CAD skills. So I am going to just give a rough depiction. Take from it what you can.

Its a case very similar to my Cromemco (and seemingly many other keyboards/pads of the time) case. Imagine that the case was flattened out to about the height of your average keyboard. The blue part of the case was just side paneling and was made in stainless steel or what ever. Increase the height over the white part of the case a little bit. Creating a sort of "wing" type look. Then the white part of the case was wood. Basically a wood face, back, and front, with the 2 stainless steel "wings" covering the sides. But the wood part was 1 piece with rounded edges. It is cut out on the top for the keys and switches etc. Again, not sure how the rest of the housing works, but if anyone can imagine what I am describing, then that is how I would do a "hybrid" wood and metal design. Basically looking at it all put together, would have 2 wing like stainless steel sides, sandwiching a rectangular arc type piece of wood. Very clear in my head... Not so much in words.

Now I have not slept in a day and a half so before I start describing any more sleep deprived delusions to you all, I am going to bed. If anyone does find anything useful in what I wrote, then congratulations. My main piece of advice, for any wood case especially, is to not do 5 sheet boring layered case. They are just boring.

[SL89]

Its a case very similar to my Cromemco (and seemingly many other keyboards/pads of the time) case. Imagine that the case was flattened out to about the height of your average keyboard. The blue part of the case was just side paneling and was made in stainless steel or what ever. Increase the height over the white part of the case a little bit. Creating a sort of "wing" type look. Then the white part of the case was wood. Basically a wood face, back, and front, with the 2 stainless steel "wings" covering the sides. But the wood part was 1 piece with rounded edges. It is cut out on the top for the keys and switches etc. Again, not sure how the rest of the housing works, but if anyone can imagine what I am describing, then that is how I would do a "hybrid" wood and metal design. Basically looking at it all put together, would have 2 wing like stainless steel sides, sandwiching a rectangular arc type piece of wood. Very clear in my head... Not so much in words.

That sounds pretty awesome! It's the inverse of my idea, but i like it just the same.

[facetsesame]

I noticed those Cromemco cases, they're very nice and rather like the Hammond 1456 series. Interestingly there is indeed a version with actual walnut sides. The dimensions aren't really right for most keyboards though - I've been curious as to whether they would quote for a small run of custom sizes.

I reckon blatantly fake veneers can have their uses, but it can be a very fine line between a clearly deliberate choice and just looking cheap.

[pyrelink]

I noticed those Cromemco cases, they're very nice and rather like the Hammond 1456 series. Interestingly there is indeed a version with actual walnut sides. The dimensions aren't really right for most keyboards though - I've been curious as to whether they would quote for a small run of custom sizes.

I reckon blatantly fake veneers can have their uses, but it can be a very fine line between a clearly deliberate choice and just looking cheap.

Thats awesome! I was thinking something similar to this: http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg2/1456PH1WHCWW_AB.jpg

Except wood where the metal is and metal where the wood is. Very cool looking case.

That would be awesome to get a small run of those cases going. Even if totally unrelated to this build, please let me know, as I would love to get in on that.

Oh and when it comes to keyboard cases, I don't think we should even consider veneer. Hybrid cases are cool, but I think a true wooden keyboard case with a metal plate, would be super freaking cool to have in this GB. Maybe others don't agree, but I think, if done right it could look awesome.

[SL89]

I noticed those Cromemco cases, they're very nice and rather like the Hammond 1456 series. Interestingly there is indeed a version with actual walnut sides. The dimensions aren't really right for most keyboards though - I've been curious as to whether they would quote for a small run of custom sizes.

I reckon blatantly fake veneers can have their uses, but it can be a very fine line between a clearly deliberate choice and just looking cheap.

That is pretty much exactly the sort of hybrid i was looking at, but with stainless instead of the beige.

Also thats a nice table. Veneer def has its places.

[matt3o]

Thats awesome! I was thinking something similar to this: http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg2/1456PH1WHCWW_AB.jpg

this should be feasible. aluminum for the plate, wood for the sides and possibly bottom. I have to think about it. Alu can be easily bent. I have to do some 3d modelling...

[pyrelink]

Thats awesome! I was thinking something similar to this: http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg2/1456PH1WHCWW_AB.jpg

this should be feasible. aluminum for the plate, wood for the sides and possibly bottom. I have to think about it. Alu can be easily bent. I have to do some 3d modelling...

Doesn't have to be aluminum also. If there is a noticeable difference in price, or durability compared to stainless, or some other metal, then that can work too.

[Muirium]

I've heard good things about brass. Aesthetically, it goes with wood very well.

[matt3o]

Thats awesome! I was thinking something similar to this: http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg2/1456PH1WHCWW_AB.jpg

this should be feasible. aluminum for the plate, wood for the sides and possibly bottom. I have to think about it. Alu can be easily bent. I have to do some 3d modelling...

Doesn't have to be aluminum also. If there is a noticeable difference in price, or durability compared to stainless, or some other metal, then that can work too.

we have brushed steel which is reeeally nice, but anodized alu is also very good and --as I said-- I believe it is a better material for a keyboard. It costs about 20% more than steel.

Brass is also an option but I never tried it and it is a little risky.

[Vierax]

Brass should be as tender as aluminium. The difference is that its aspect tends to change with time, being mate, but raw alu without anodizing may evolve too.
Brass contains copper, and copper's oxide is a poison (this green stuff was used as pigment in paint) avoiding that toxicity, brass is still used in plumery (less dangerous than lead), used in guitar frets and sometimes to build e-cigarette rebuildable atomizer. I like the beauty of its patina and it's golden colour but I really don't want to touch it so brass should be avoided for a mounting plate.

[pyrelink]

Brass should be as tender as aluminium. The difference is that its aspect tends to change with time, being mate, but raw alu without anodizing may evolve too.
Brass contains copper, and copper's oxide is a poison (this green stuff was used as pigment in paint) avoiding that toxicity, brass is still used in plumery (less dangerous than lead), used in guitar frets and sometimes to build e-cigarette rebuildable atomizer. I like the beauty of its patina and it's golden colour but I really don't want to touch it so brass should be avoided for a mounting plate.

OH! So THAT is why I am always getting violently sick after licking all the brass plumbing in the basement...

[matt3o]

This is a quick diagram of the bent alu/steel case

frame.png (14.55 KiB) Viewed 5155 times

The problem is that there's a minimum distance that we can bend and I don't know which is it. Also, we would have to find a way to connect the bent metal to the side/bottom wood.

[Vierax]

Also, we would have to find a way to connect the bent metal to the side/bottom wood.

(I don't know the name in English )

[matt3o]

actually I was thinking to have some slots in the wood and insert the plate inside. I don't know I have to think about it.

[pyrelink]

actually I was thinking to have some slots in the wood and insert the plate inside. I don't know I have to think about it.

Yup that's what I was thinking. It might be easiest with the wood being individual pieces that fit into grooves. The 2 wood sides fit onto the edges of the metal case and then you could add a wood base, using grooves in the 2 wood sides.

Basically they all press fit together and then if needed use some of those coroner type bracket things to hold it together.

[matt3o]

you can have 2 holes to the bottom of the side wood pieces so you can screw the metal to them. And also like you said, 2 holes to the side to hold the base.

IT
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CAN
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BE
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DONE
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!