Group Build prototyping phase

[Req]

The footprint is 60% however I did not think about the screw holes.

[matt3o]

yeah I did the same mistake. Unfortunately you can vary the poker layout very little or you risk to place a switch over a screw hole. You have very little freedom there.

That being said, you could always saw the standoffs away and replace them...

[Req]

I'm just trying to think out of the box. The only way to get more keys in the same space is a slight rearrange/downsize which apparently kills the case compatibility. What are the design parameters? I myself would not mind modding a case to make it work.

[matt3o]

these two layouts almost work




but still a couple of standoffs need to be replaced.

I'll give you full specs in a minute

[Findecanor]

Too bad that matt3o's custom 60% design with a nav column did not work with a Poker/GH60 case, or I would have been in on that.

This would fit in a 60% case and fits your bill I think.

The problem was that the Poker-compatible cases bolt holes/standoffs would fall right under switches in your and matt3o's layouts.

[Muirium]

A diagram for those would be most useful!

[matt3o]

The problem was that the Poker-compatible cases bolt holes/standoffs would fall right under switches in your and matt3o's layouts.

isn't that what I said?

this is a very empirical diagram

[Findecanor]

isn't that what I said?

Yeah sorry, I missed that before posting and then. "You can't delete a post that has been replied to".

Here is another dupe:

pokerstandoffs.png (11.06 KiB) Viewed 6619 times

pokerstandoffs2.png (11.24 KiB) Viewed 6619 times

[Req]

isn't that what I said?

Yeah, missed that before posting and then. "You can't delete a post that has been replied to".

Here is another dupe:

Here is(I think) a Poker compatible Matrix (Except for H). I know someone did not like the matrix idea but a few did.

[Findecanor]

Here is(I think) a Poker compatible Matrix (Except for H).

The Alt Gr key does not work though. Not all Poker cases have the post under H.

[matt3o]

it would be relatively easy to mod a poker case, but of course you then lose poker compatibility.

also there something I don't understand about plate mounted switches placed into a poker case. The plate is not held by the screws, it's the pcb that it is... so what the hell is the benefit of the plate?!

[Req]

Here is(I think) a Poker compatible Matrix (Except for H).

The Alt Gr key does not work though. Not all Poker cases have the post under H.

This fixed it I think.

[Nuum]

SymmetricStaggerISO60.png (17.51 KiB) Viewed 6590 times

Maybe someone likes it, could suit a Poker case. It has just three keycaps, which are hard to source, namely both Shifts and the Caps Lock. But you can go with blanks for the Shifts, and maybe get a Control keycaps from a Cherry G80-0904 or similar for the Caps Lock. Or go the DSA route.

[Findecanor]

also there something I don't understand about plate mounted switches placed into a poker case. The plate is not held by the screws, it's the pcb that it is... so what the hell is the benefit of the plate?!

Weight, looks, Costar stabilisers, catching paper clips ...

[Muirium]

Even if the plate itself isn't mounted to the case, it should distribute forces more evenly across the PCB by spreading them over several switches. The result should be a feel between traditional plate mount and PCB mount.

Plus what he said!

Any problems with those Poker cases and my shiny layout? I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking for…



That case remains. But I could try a remake, as the layout is a good 'un.

[pyrelink]

Even if the plate itself isn't mounted to the case, it should distribute forces more evenly across the PCB by spreading them over several switches. The result should be a feel between traditional plate mount and PCB mount.

Plus what he said!

Any problems with those Poker cases and my shiny layout? I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking for…



That case remains. But I could try a remake, as the layout is a good 'un.

I do love this layout.

I think the goal is to make sure that in the layout, the standoffs and screw placements of the Poker case, do not interfere with the switches. So making sure your layout has the screws on the edges, and in between switches rather then dead center of a switch.

Could be wrong though.

[SL89]

Even if the plate itself isn't mounted to the case, it should distribute forces more evenly across the PCB by spreading them over several switches. The result should be a feel between traditional plate mount and PCB mount.

Plus what he said!

Any problems with those Poker cases and my shiny layout? I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking for…



That case remains. But I could try a remake, as the layout is a good 'un.

I want Muirium's layout + additional keys on the left and right like Req's original proposition, and a moog like case. But thats just me.

[matt3o]

also there something I don't understand about plate mounted switches placed into a poker case. The plate is not held by the screws, it's the pcb that it is... so what the hell is the benefit of the plate?!

Weight, looks, Costar stabilisers, catching paper clips ...

paper clips! now everything makes sense!

[DanielT]

I would like something like this:

ScreenShot.png (4.69 KiB) Viewed 6505 times

The plate can take Costar or Cherry stabs, plate mounted, at least on paper so far I would love a PCB for this keyboard, but in the end also handwiring will do.

It is the same layout the shiny 60% has, for me is the best of both worlds (HHKB & Poker). I have both HHKB and Poker X, I love the layout on HHKB and the 3 extra keys on Poker X.

The final keyboard would look something like this the bottom row will be different, this was just a quick mockup (I'm basing the whole build on Round 5 ).

MyKBD3.png (28.48 KiB) Viewed 6505 times

[mr_peck]

The final keyboard would look something like this the bottom row will be different, this was just a quick mockup (I'm basing the whole build on Round 5 ).

MyKBD3.png

I really like this layout except the fn position at the right of shift. But i can easily reprogram it so i'll buy it.

[Broadmonkey]

You can already create that layout with the GH60, which in case you were not in the group buy, will most likely be available from mechanicalkeyboards.com when the gb is over as well as in the marketplace since a lot bought more than one PCB.

[Muirium]

I'd be interested in one of those too, of course! Plate and PCB. This time we can make sure the stabs get the holes they need. Last year's plates needed a bit of filing. Lesson learned!

But are Poker case standoffs a problem? Well, my layout is so similar to a Poker there's really only so much to look for:



Nothing near split backspace: hooray! But the Fn key right of right shift? Will it work?

Then it's "just" a case of figuring out where a Teensy would go. The old space bar trick? Or maybe under row 1 / 2 somewhere, in the case's greatest depth?

Man, I want this board. Again!

Edit: having read Broadmonkey's point: how does the GH60 handle the Teensy and standoff issues? Anyway, it may still be easier for us to build this here as a little group project than everyone wander off for individual trades. Especially those of us considering more than one build…

[Broadmonkey]

Nothing near split backspace: hooray! But the Fn key right of right shift? Will it work?

The KBT Pure uses the same case and has that FN key, so yes!

[Muirium]

Phew!

Now if only I had the caps to do it all in Alps…

[matt3o]

I believe I would also fancy a 1u FN between left shift and Z (1 less stabilized key)

[Muirium]

Funny you should say that: the extra key is my favorite thing about ISO boards. As I type on ANSI and ISO regularly, I always hit left Shift on the left, so that's a good gain right there. One more key to play with and one less stab!

But what legend to put on it. Hmm. Fn = Caps Lock on my IBMs, but maybe this could be worth investigation!

[DanielT]

This layout should be in theory 99% compatible with the Poker case. In my project I started from this open source poker acrylic case http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44382.120 . This was made for Poker/Pure keyboards, and at least one case was build based on this project and was a success . I started from this project and changed it to my requirements, at least on paper the layout would fit the Poker case. The plate should be modified for the Poker case, the plate I posted is for acrylic case (I wanted a Korean style 60% ).
I can make public my DWG file, it's Open Source as it's initial creator meant it (this is why I linked also his original thread).

@Muirium: You could use a green Vim key for that extra FN if you ordered one, it's row 3 SA

[scottc]

This layout should be in theory 99% compatible with the Poker case. In my project I started from this open source poker acrylic case http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44382.120 . This was made for Poker/Pure keyboards, and at least one case was build based on this project and was a success . I started from this project and changed it to my requirements, at least on paper the layout would fit the Poker case. The plate should be modified for the Poker case, the plate I posted is for acrylic case (I wanted a Korean style 60% ).
I can make public my DWG file, it's Open Source as it's initial creator meant it (this is why I linked also his original thread).

This would be very cool. I'd be interested in making this as a custom at some point.

[pyrelink]

So when it comes to fitting in the Teensy, are we talking finding somewhere to fit it on the PCB, or in the case itself, or do we need to worry about both?

[Muirium]

The Teensy can be mounted on the back of the PCB, like in PJE's OneHand:



I built one of these myself, and so long as you install the switches before the Teensy, you're all set. Just requires a case with enough depth. Which I'm hoping the Poker cases have, up at the back.

If we were to actually make several of the same design – a first in these prototyping GBs! – then maybe, just maybe, there might even be a discount. My guess is a few cents, but it's worth spending to find out!

@Muirium: You could use a green Vim key for that extra FN if you ordered one, it's row 3 SA

Between Round 5 and PBT Granite I am all set for weird and wonderful keys that have nothing to do with the work I'm doing already! But green is kinda… ack… stoppit!