The Realforce 104 Euro Tour - Round 3

[Muirium]

A keyboard that actually gets better with a revision? Leopold could teach the industry a thing or two.

Matteo speaks very highly of the FC660C. He thinks it's the best sounding Topre of them all (and he's tried many) so I would definitely consider it. We have a little mini-GB of them in mind, in fact, as he has a man in Korea…

[BlueBär]

I haven't tried the FC660C, but I know it's metal plate mounted unlike the HHKB and I think it should feel pretty similar to a Realforce for that reason. The other good thing about the FC660C now is that they finally switched to dye-sub legends, so no more crappy worn off laser caps.

Tbh, I don't like the look of the dyesubs of the FC660C at all. The colour looks somewhat dirty and is probably a pain to match to anything. I would have much rather preferred something like black blanks or black on black dyesubs like the RF boards.

[amospalla]

Is it late to enter the tour?

I am in the process of trying it all. Next steps for me on my research are Topre and Matias.

[nourathar]

nice to read about the experiences in the tour so far and to catch up with its progress, can't wait to try it myself !

[Muirium]

Indeed!

Is it late to enter the tour?

I am in the process of trying it all. Next steps for me on my research are Topre and Matias.

You should be fine. Hopefully 002 gives you the nod, and you're in.

Topre and Matias are both well worth checking out, by the way.

[002]

Well now I'm going to look like a bit of an arsehole for pointing out his join date is after the original post
Rules is rules, I'm afraid! If you happen to know someone on the forum who does meet the criteria and will vouch for you then there's no trouble to add you to the list.

[amospalla]

Oh, sorry, didn't check that. My fault having set you in the situation of have to say no ( with good reasons ).

I'll wait for next tour, I'm sure there will be any in the future.

Thank you anyway for making this tour posible!

[noesc]

^^
This is the reason I like this forum. Appropriate manners even in times like this.

Welcome amospalla, stay active and get on the next tour!

[waffl]

I am writing this on a Filco Brown, which feels too light to me now and way too loud. I only got to use the Realforce for about two and a half days due to scheduling, I didn't want to let go of it, but it's on its way to BlueBär now.

I'll start with the cons:
It's physically a bit too big

That's it.

The Pros:
Aesthetically, I quite like the beige 'office' aesthetic of it, very sharp and high quality keys as mentioned. An absolute pleasure to type on. It's really the plate-mounted solidity that I really appreciated about it. Its heaviness and everything made it feel very grounded and comfortable. The variable keys did not bother me a single bit, I'm not sure if I really noticed it either way actually, I wasn't really aware of the variation in weight afterall.

Overall, I am considering selling my Filco and Poker and getting a Realforce TKL or the Leopold. I have used a HHKB and even then the feeling of PCB vs plate mount is very different. It's really a shame there isn't a plate mounted HHKB.

There is something very satisfying about pushing a plate-mounted topre that is hard to explain. It feels very 'well made'. I suppose the reason it doesn't feel cheap is because it isn't

So, in the end, I loved the feel, sound and aesthetic of this board, would highly recommend. Looking forward to everyone elses' experiences.

Thanks a ton @002, now I know what I'm missing out on every time I'm tying. Really thankful to have been able to try out a realforce.

@Muirium, please keep me informed if a GB for the Leopolds ever arises!

[Muirium]

I'll try to remember!

Also don't forget the NovaTouch. If CM sends me an update so I can review the production model, instead of the prototype, I'll compare it to the Realforce. Well, what I can remember of the Realforce, back last autumn! TKL is a great size and the choice of Topre switch boards there is really heating up now.

[BlueBär]

It arrived yesterday, thanks waffl!
First impression: Some stuff I like, some I really don't. The weighting on the A is terrible, it's not very tactile and just feels mushy and wrong to me. The center keys (DFGHJK) seem a lot better, and the 55g Esc is very interesting. Would like to try an all 55g board next.

[Muirium]

I could probably get used to any weight of Topre. 002's touring board is the most interesting one to try, though, because of the selection. The lightest switches were a bit unsatisfying, tactility wise, although I do love a nice light linear so I didn't mind. But sure, if you want to dial up the feel, 55g is the way to go.

[BlueBär]

I like linear switches actually, but the Topre switch under the A reminds me of Cherry MY switches - really undefined mushy feel.

[Muirium]

How about the Q and the Z? There should be a few 30g switches on the board:



This diagram is a little optimistic. 002 will know for sure, but I think there's just 2 or 3 discrete weights (besides the lonely Escape key) across the keyboard, not a whole smooth spectrum like this!

[BlueBär]

QWASYX are all the same as far as I can tell. EDC seem a bit (although not much) different than RTFGVB. That would mean three weights in the typing area. Sounds about right to me?

[Muirium]

Naturally, I should always first check the wiki:

There is some debate about whether or not Topre’s diagram representing the variable force weight distribution is correct. Community measurements have indicated that modern variable force Realforce keyboards actually have three distinct weight levels of 45 grams, 40 grams and 35 grams (excluding the ‘Esc’ and, on full size keyboards, 'Num Lock' keys which are weighted at 55 grams).

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_Realforce#Key_Weight

Kurk measured every key on his and made this chart:


http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ver ... t7088.html

[BlueBär]

That's an all 45g one though.

[Muirium]

Good point. If you follow his link you'll see how weird his first one was. Essentially randomly weighted! But the replacement was much better.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I like linear switches actually, but the Topre switch under the A reminds me of Cherry MY switches - really undefined mushy feel.

I find the same with Topre — the light switches on a variable weight board feel terrible, but strangely enough, I really don't notice at all unless I purposefully poke one of those keys.

[BlueBär]

It depends. After using it for one day now I noticed that it sometimes actually feels heavier than the inner keys (probably because the bump is kind of missing), other times I didn't notice it at all. Still if I would get a Topre I would definitley go for a uniform one.

[Muirium]

I'd probably go uniform weighting in practice, too. Especially if I wanted 55g. But ergo weighting bothered me much less than I thought it would, and I'm not even a well disciplined touch typist by any stretch. Valuable experiment!

[BlueBär]

The Realforce is on it's way to suka! I used a new box since the old one was pretty beat up and it fits perfectly. It was an interesting first experience with Topre and I wrote a review and made a video review, too. Both will be up... soon™.

[suka]

The keyboard arrived safely, and BlueBärs packaging really was great! Could not test it yesterday as I had to be someplace to watch the Worldcup

It is sitting on my desk now, solid first impressions and I think .... well, going into detail now would be a little too early.

Btw, noobie94 [Austria] hasn't sent me his address yet, how shall I proceed if I do not hear from him by next week? I guess madhias could advance then...

[002]

Cool
Yep let's give it until next week and if he has given no response by then, we can swap his and madhias' spots.

[noobie94]

Don´t worry.

[suka]

The keyboard is on its way to Noobie94 now, so time for a little write-up of my experience with it:

First impression: Dang, this board is heavy! As I exclusively use 60% or less boards nowadays, I could probably hardly judge this anymore. But it definitely looks solid. And it also sounds that way to me when typing - a deep, dampened "thock" only interrupted with a well audible ring from any stabilized key once in a while and none of the higher pitched MX bottoming-out and release sound I have become so used to.

Which brings me to the typing characteristics as I personally observed them: A well pronounced activation point, somewhere in between my Lenovo chiclet and MX clears in force, but with a very pleasing feel I could get used to. I assume its mechanical design favours such a smooth motion that feels perfectly aligned with the sound and thus makes a very professional impression.

I tried both MX reds and clears as well as my laptop chiclets blindly against it and must say while the linear reds are of course completely different (yet preferred by me since I grew so accustomed to them with my split daily driver) I have a hard time deciding which of the others I like best. In the end though, o-ringed clears won for me.

Now the most important question I had beforehand: Would I want to have a Topre board now that I got a feel for it?
Given the general price (up until now, maybe things will get more affordable with other vendors) probably not, although it seems justified for what amount of technical detail there is in a capacitive board. Most problematic for me, however, is the lack of ergonomic boards, or moreso the general lack of switches/parts and the inability to built custom boards with them (easily as with MX, that is).

Thank you 002 for making the keyboard available: I'm really glad I was able to get my hands on a topre, and finally I do not have to guess anymore what all the fuzz is about when it comes to discussions around the switches.

[002]

Nice review -- thanks for sharing your thoughts. Likewise to others who have done so to this point. I really like hearing how people feel about Topre switches. It seems that most people who have tried them and don't love them can at least appreciate or understand why others do.

[noobie94]

Keyboard arrived today. Can´t wait to try in evening

[Madhias]

Thanks to noobie94 i got the Realforce 104UW keyboard today. I'm using it right now, typing this post.

What can i tell you, using the board now for about 2-3 hours? I feel like i'm typing on clouds! It's a solid, quiet feeling. I do not want to read right now more about the switches and the modifications on this board, just to get the feeling for myself. I can definitely say that i will get sometimes a Topre board. It's a nice new feeling for me. A little bit like the MX Clears on my Ducky board, but softer and 'cleaner'. If i would buy a Topre board, it will definitely be a 55g version (if that value is right).

Also it's for me the first time using an US kezboard lazout. Damn that Y and Z. I like that all the important characters like ' \ | [ ] / = - are in one place without using ALT! I don't know if i will miss the diaeresis signs (what a strange word). At home not, at work for sure.

Here and here are pictures of the board!

[Muirium]

Nice, isn't it?

I much prefer the ANSI Return key, especially. I was born and raised in ISO-land, but ANSI is where I'm native!

There's only one 55g switch on the whole Realforce you have right there. See if you can find it…