To save an Unsaver

[pyrelink]

Amazing job here. The barrel plate looks better then it did from the factory. Hell, the whole board looks brand new!

This thread gave me a few good ideas for better restoring my board. I think that the 1/16" foam looks like the best choice. Do you notice any movement in the barrels in the center-most rows, or is everything pretty uniformly solid?

[quantalume]

I'd say it's possible to wiggle the barrels a little more easily in the middle (ASDF) row than the others. However, I have a NIB 3178 for comparison, and those middle-row barrels wiggle a little too. I think the foam is still in contact with the barrels in either case, just under less compression. On the other hand, I have an old AT that I haven't restored yet, and a few of the barrels are really loose, to the point that you can feel and hear the difference when hitting a key.

I took the liberty of cutting the old Unsaver foam down the middle, and you can see that it's compressed almost paper thin in the middle rows.

P1020765.jpg (111.74 KiB) Viewed 6063 times

I think the most important attribute of the foam is that it is super soft. The foam sheets found in craft stores don't seem to be as soft, at least not the ones I've come across. If the foam is thicker but less deformable, it's only going to push the barrels further away from the top plate. This can result in the key bottoming out without actuating, particularly around the stabilizer anchors. I had this problem when I tried 2.4 mm (3/32") supposedly "soft" silicone. If you can find it, I'd say super soft foam between 2-2.5 mm might be just about perfect. If you do find some that's not outrageously expensive, please let us know!

[fohat]

If you can find it, I'd say super soft foam between 2-2.5 mm might be just about perfect. If you do find some that's not outrageously expensive, please let us know!

I still think that the "art foam" is a good choice, although it is fairly thick and makes it considerably harder to get the plates back together.

Personally, I feel like the added compression between the plates enhances the feel and possibly dampens the sound a bit, but that is an ideal trade-off for me.

At Michael's art supply there is a wide range of colors, a single sheet costing less than a dollar will do it for an F-122, and it is supposed acid-free for use in art projects and scrapbooking.

One day I may try a higher-tech sheet of something like silicone. I think that it is worth the wrestling match with the thicker and firmer products to get the extra compression.

[Hypersphere]

I used 1/8-inch silicone foam on an XT. It was indeed a wrestling match to get the plates to slide into position, but I agree with fohat's assessment that the added compression enhances the feel and perhaps dampens the sound.

When I was sliding the XT plates, I had the impression that I was mainly fighting against the friction between the plates and the surface of the foam, although compression was a factor as well. This makes me wonder if some kind of non-petroleum lubricant could be applied to the surface of the foam -- perhaps silicone oil or a dry teflon lubricant -- to allow the plates to slide more easily. Any ideas on this?

[quantalume]

At Michael's art supply there is a wide range of colors, a single sheet costing less than a dollar will do it for an F-122, and it is supposed acid-free for use in art projects and scrapbooking.

Thanks for the tip. Haven't tried looking in a Michaels yet since there are none convenient to me. I have about 5 more Model Fs I plan to restore over the next few months, so I'll definitely give it a try.

[pyrelink]

I wonder if Michael's sells a different type of craft foam then the craft foam I got. We also have a Michael's around here, so while I am waiting for my 1/16" to come in from McMaster-Carr, I might try and pick some up from there.

[cinnamonrollz]

Can't wait to see the finished product!

[quantalume]

I was reading fohat's F-122 restoration thread on geekhack (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.0), and he seems to use a few bolts even when keeping all the original locking tabs. Maybe that's just something you're likely to need on these tall boards, even with the "perfect" foam. Thirty years is a long time to expect sheet metal to be under compression and not lose its shape. XT/AT/4704 might be more forgiving.

[fohat]

he seems to use a few bolts even when keeping all the original locking tabs. Maybe that's just something you're likely to need on these tall boards, even with the "perfect" foam.

Long ago, I invented an "F bolt-mod" wherein I cut off the tabs and replaced them with half a dozen bolts. I am now convinced that this is a bad idea, for quite a few reasons.

But, I do feel that a little extra squeeze at the innermost curvature of the plates can be a huge help.

** PLEASE LOOK AT THE PCB FIRST TO ENSURE THAT YOU ARE DRILLING THROUGH BLANK AREAS ! **

I have concluded that about 3 of them are enough: approximately between 5 and F5, between 0 and F10, and between Enter and Right Arrow.

These need to be a lot bigger than Model M bolts, something on the order of 4-40x1/2" or M3x12 with washers.

[quantalume]

I installed an xwhatsit controller last night...

P1020770.jpg (87.77 KiB) Viewed 5951 times

...and tonight I installed a USB connector in back in place of the 15-pin D connector.

P1020781.jpg (75.38 KiB) Viewed 5951 times

I might install one of those nice, metal Amphenol connectors...

MUSB-E151-341.jpg (19.7 KiB) Viewed 5951 times

...at some point, but what I have will do the job until then.

[macmakkara]

Im Going to borrow this little...


Still in middle of cleaning. Im not going to take this apart yet if all keys work after i intall new controller.


Case and back.


AAAAND my kitchen table at the moment.

3276 is waiting for controller. It should arrive here next week. This 3276 was at pretty good condition when it came. Missing few caps etc. A lot better than my german 3278... need to sand its plate soon.

[quantalume]

Wow, yours looks a lot nicer than mine did. That's OK, you paid for it in shipping cost. Does yours have a 5-pin DIN connector? I'm wondering if that would work with a Soarer's converter.

[macmakkara]

Yep its 5-pin Din. Hmm.. i havent removed the controller yet and got some pro micros so i can test that out.

E. After some reading i realized that this one is 3290 Terminal and soarer haven`t listed it as supported. im temted to try this out but i was going to test this with out of the case converter. Then i realized that its terminal Din45322 connector and i don't have female one... im still thinking if im going to test it out with converter. But i have xwhatsit controller ready.

[Laser]

According to a Dorkvader@GH (talking about a different keyboard), and if my logic doesn't fail me:

keep in mind you can't just put a soarer box on it like you can the 3290 keyboard. This will require controller replacement.

... would seem to imply that the 3290 is supported by Soarer's converter.

[macmakkara]

wow i didin'realize that. Now im thinking what i should do. I have to Xwhatsit's controller ready and i also have 2 Pro micros.

[Muirium]

Might as well try the converter first, if you can figure out the pinout. Well, at risk of burning out a Pro Micro…

Are they back down in price again these days?

[macmakkara]

Got those from aliexpress with bigger order with my friends. Was something like 6.5$ ea.



Internal pinout should be same as here. But im going to check that out...

[dorkvader]

According to a Dorkvader@GH (talking about a different keyboard), and if my logic doesn't fail me:

keep in mind you can't just put a soarer box on it like you can the 3290 keyboard. This will require controller replacement.

... would seem to imply that the 3290 is supported by Soarer's converter.

3290 plasma terminal unsaver KB outputs the same terminal protocol the 122's do IIRC. I don't know of any specific examples but I do believe you can just plug and go. The controller for the 3290 KB is almost certainly the same as the 122-key.

the 5083 / 5085 cad/graphics ones will not work with soarer's converter.

You can tell the difference because the 3290 has a DIN connector and the graphics ones have two dsubs. and the cable for them is nuts.

I think you can convert them to serial with the 5083 converter box I have but I've yet to look at it under an oscilloscope though. All the other peripherals (LPFK, dials and tablet) use RS232.

[Laser]

Hi Dorkvader - thanks for the information!

The ball is now in Macmakkara's yard - will it work is this case? Stay tuned, i guess

[macmakkara]

Yeah i still have problems with my pro micros so stay tuned! I don't have time today or this weekend. But im going to give it a shots next week with linux.

[andrewjoy]

I installed an xwhatsit controller last night...

P1020770.jpg

Nice work on that mate puts my crows nest cable to shame

[macmakkara]

Got Promicro flashed. But when i plug it to my unsaver and then plug it to pc it goes crazy and starts spamming keypresses. don't have idea wtf is going on. HID listener says
Keyboard ID: BFBF
Code Set: 3
AT/PS2

[Laser]

Maybe the plates aren't seated alright, and/or not stable in the right position? Something like around this post:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48 ... msg1234667

[macmakkara]

Hmm.. Il have to see that. I didin't open internal sandwitch so i quess they should be ok. But il propably check those out.

Ok so opening sandwitch....

[macmakkara]

Been in hurry. But got today done little dissassembling and assembling. Also did some trouble shooting on found out that my the problem is in my pro micro or my wires to it. Ordered some wires because i live in middle of forest and there is no electronic shops close to me.

[macmakkara]

This is so frustrating... im going to install xwhatsits on this.... I have redone my promicro cable like 3 times already and this just keeps spamming letters. Also opened sandwitch few times to check if there is something wrong... I can only thing that my pro micro is faulty or i just can't solder cables

[chzel]

I've had key spamming when using a sub-par cable with a Pro Micro clone Soarer's converter with my Model M.
My guess is that due to cable resistance there is enough V drop to brown out the uC.

[macmakkara]

I installed an xwhatsit controller last night...

P1020770.jpg

...and tonight I installed a USB connector in back in place of the 15-pin D connector.

P1020781.jpg

I might install one of those nice, metal Amphenol connectors...

MUSB-E151-341.jpg

...at some point, but what I have will do the job until then.

mind sharing your layout?

I've had key spamming when using a sub-par cable with a Pro Micro clone Soarer's converter with my Model M.
My guess is that due to cable resistance there is enough V drop to brown out the uC.

That might be possible. But got already xwhatsits controller in and running. Just need to figure out keylayout. =)