The Oracle Answers

[Hypersphere]

@Muirium: It is okay to prize symmetry -- even to an illogical degree.

There is beauty in the form factor, symmetry, and layout of the HHKB (and the Kishsaver), and although I currently use a HHKB as my daily driver at work, I am looking forward to getting my IBM Model F 107 and F 122 keyboards up and running. These gigantic boards have a perverse attraction of their own, and they command respect out of their sheer weight and solidity. The in-between territory of TKL boards and others in the 60% - 80% domain has its charms as well. I particularly like the TKL as well as the oddball layout of the XT. Therefore, at home, I rotate through my RF 87ub 55g, IBM XT, and IBM SSK.

With respect to Cherry mx keyboards or their clones, I had a KC84 with blues that I liked (now I think they are made with Kailh switches) and I still have a Poker II with blues, but I preferred my TKL boards. If I were going to buy another board with Cherry mx switches, it would most likely be a TKL.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

WTF this was supposed to be a PM … luser error.

[002]

Haha, if you're moving to 60% you should be using an HHKB and then you could re-use the green caps
Don't worry about the caps, I was only (semi)serious. I'll probably just sell the remaining ones at some stage.

[Madhias]

Oh mighty Oracle, please listen to my plea: can the gods help me to mount a Model F AT spacebar? If they are busy please advise me how to do so.

[Nuum]

Maybe this helps: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/mode ... t6982.html At least it helped me, when I disassembled and cleaned my Model F AT.

[Muirium]

Looks like a good guide. That AT spacebar is not for the uninitiated, like me! Is the XT's legendarily bad one similar, or even worse?

[Madhias]

Thanks Nuum! I think the only easy way will be to open the keyboard (the metal plate) again, and then mount the space bar, and not when the plate + capacitive plate is mounted together again. I should have done it like that, and not to add all the caps in the end.

[Khers]

Maybe this helps: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/mode ... t6982.html At least it helped me, when I disassembled and cleaned my Model F AT.

Wish I'd found that guide a couple of days ago! I feel the spacebar is a bit on the heavy side on my bigfoot... Have to see whether I can be bothered to disassemble the board again

[Parjánya]

O wise oracle, I beseech thee to help me.

I've used the same keyboard since 1994, an IBM rubber dome, which survives to this day. I've used model Ms long ago, and liked it a lot.

Now what full keyboard should I get that:

• is easily cleanable
  has Cherry MX cleans
  has a not shiny black color
  can be modded to use spherical keycaps with a good fit
  isn't expensive (less than 100US$)

?

Perhaps this one, whose branch I couldn't find:

Also, is there any hope of buying the GB Space Cadet and the Dolch keycaps?

[Muirium]

That's some modern, blue backlit fullsize MX board. The matte black finish looks like Cooler Master to me. I know those caps quite well: they're DSA Dolch. Here's mine:



My keyboard is a NovaTouch (long review here) which takes MX caps but actually has Topre switches inside. I like them a lot more than MX clear. Topre feels a bit more like the rubber domes you're used to, but with a nice high activation point and a long lifetime, like your old IBM instead of modern mushy mainstream boards.

Neither the keyboard nor the caps are cheap though. Just those caps alone cost me 50 something dollars. The keyboard retails at 200! You can definitely get a good MX board for a lower price (although Brazil might be difficult…) but fancy caps are always extra. Especially space cadet sphericals, which 7bit is trying to rerun here. (Don't believe his timetable. They could be next summer or even later!)

Oh, and don't worry about LEDs. All the nice caps are quite opaque, so backlights are pretty pointless!

[Parjánya]

That's some modern, blue backlit fullsize MX board. The matte black finish looks like Cooler Master to me. I know those caps quite well: they're DSA Dolch. Here's mine:

What a beautiful keyboard!

My keyboard is a NovaTouch (long review here) which takes MX caps but actually has Topre switches inside. I like them a lot more than MX clear. Topre feels a bit more like the rubber domes you're used to, but with a nice high activation point and a long lifetime, like your old IBM instead of modern mushy mainstream boards.

I need to go to some stores and try the switches before being completely sure, and I'll check for the Topre ones too then : ). I play the harpsichord for five years or so, and they are so crunchy! (the action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVN6TVKtWmc, and a better sound example with a rare type of keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akGtDPVRxk) They remind me of the buckling springs. I guess I will prefer something like this with a immediate action, instead of a curve. But anyhow I need to test. Also I'm used to 60gr of weight to action the keys.

Neither the keyboard nor the caps are cheap though. Just those caps alone cost me 50 something dollars. The keyboard retails at 200! You can definitely get a good MX board for a lower price (although Brazil might be difficult…) but fancy caps are always extra. Especially space cadet sphericals, which 7bit is trying to rerun here. (Don't believe his timetable. They could be next summer or even later!)

Oh, and don't worry about LEDs. All the nice caps are quite opaque, so backlights are pretty pointless!

I don't mind paying 50~100 dollars for the custom caps, they must be hard to make, and hopefully very durable. But 200 for a keyboard seems a bit too much. I will probably import everything, and will either find a clever way to bring it here or pay a 60% tax. Hah.

What about the WASD keyboards?

And... it seems it will be much easier to change the keycaps if I get a keyboard with the ANSI layout, right? I'm used to the ISO enter and the extra key, but I can adapt...

Thanks a lot for the thoughtful response : ).

[Muirium]

You're welcome!

The NovaTouch is definitely overpriced. It's too close to other Topres, right at the high end of modern keyboards. WASD is pretty good, especially if you plan to get a nice high end cap set from elsewhere. They let you customise things more than anyone else. And they also sell switch samplers if you can't find MX locally.

ANSI is indeed easier to match. I have two NovaTouches (I beta tested for them) and those Dolch caps you see above won't fit on my ISO model, because of the different Return key and left Shift. That's why I requested an ANSI one from CM. If you can adapt to ANSI, caps are much more plentiful.

[Hypersphere]

I've never had a WASD, but they look good, and I like the customization options. However, the customized ABS keycaps would be wasted on me, because I would want to replace them with PBT anyway.

Having owned two Kul ES-87 keyboards, I can vouch for their quality and features, but I don't think Kul makes a full-size keyboard.

If your budget is less that 100 USD, you should look at the boards made by Cooler Master (CM). I had a CM QFR Stealth with mx greens that was a good solid board for those who like Cherry mx switches.

[Muirium]

Ah, I assumed WASD would let you configure up a board without caps at all. That would be ideal. Other than highly customisable caps, their stuff is essentially CM-level build quality.

If you're prepared to clean up a board, I'd suggest looking for used Filcos. Filco boards are solid, a step above CM's entry level ones, and their weakspot is (again) their caps. Filco legends can wear off with use. That reduces the value of the board, and is irrelevant to you if you're installing significantly better caps of your own.

Being into 80s vintage boards, I'm well used to stripping them down and cleaning on arrival.

[ماء]

WASD quite expensive for ABS imo but customization options indeed interisting!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hopefully the esrille Mk II will have countersunk screws :)

[Muirium]

Ouch. Tear. Ouch. Graze. Ouch.

[OMG_its_Roel]

I like this thread :)what keyswitch is the most recommended for me? ordered a bunch of switches from 7bit but i didn't recieve them yet

I only type on the keyboard (gaming on a orbweaver)
I want the best possible typing experience

what is in theory the best switch type oracle?

[Nuum]

It depends mostly on personal preference, but if you want to stay with Cherry MX commonly MX Blues are seen to be best for typing.
Trying loose switches doesn't give you the same feel as mounted switches, so be careful with that.

[OMG_its_Roel]

how can the feel variate?

[Nuum]

You have no plate/PCB where the switch is mounted on, you can get the general direction of the feel of the switch but it can feel quite different in a full keyboard.

[OMG_its_Roel]

how can i simulate a plate? make one uot of wood?

[Nuum]

Wood sounds good, if you have the capability to do that, but I didn't want to express that it is generally a bad idea to test loose switches to get a feel for them, just that you have to be careful because it can feel a little bit different when mounted in a full keyboard. Otherwise it's a good way to try the different switches.

[Muirium]

This is a good middleground:


http://deskthority.net/try-f29/cherry-m ... t7102.html

Finding your favourite switch is more of a quest than a routine purchase. Once you go further than MX, the world's your oyster… of elusive obscurities!

[seebart]

what is in theory the best switch type oracle?

impossible to answer in my opinion. There may be very popular switches but not ONE "best".

Finding your favourite switch is more of a quest than a routine purchase. Once you go further than MX, the world's your oyster… of elusive obscurities!

exactly, the more you discover the more "favorites" you´ll find. I have four already in the following order:

Capacitive Buckling Spring
Alps SKCM Blue
SMK Alps mount "Monterey"
Cherry MX Blue

you see I´m a "clicky" kinda guy!

[Muirium]

Here's a question for you Seebart: why go to the bother of stripping quote attributions? They're automatic when you hit the quote button below another post, like this:

exactly, the more you discover the more "favorites" you´ll find.

But your quotes are always bare ones, and lead me to much confusion as to who said what and when. Even when it was just me!

[seebart]

Here's a question for you Seebart: why go to the bother of stripping quote attributions? They're automatic when you hit the quote button below another post, like this:

exactly, the more you discover the more "favorites" you´ll find.

But your quotes are always bare ones, and lead me to much confusion as to who said what and when. Even when it was just me!

because I always start out writing in the full editor, don´t ask me why, it´s a bad habit. But that´s a good point I´ll try to remember.

[Muirium]

Good stuff. I often start typing in the quick reply field, then switch to full editor, then wind up pulling in links and quotes from other tabs. Because, uh, hmm. Anyway, thanks!

Have you ever tried beamspring? Do you like Topre? Because I'm a click aficionado too, and Topre is the hint at what the original clicky switch felt like. Beamspring is my reigning favourite. Not an easy recommendation for newbs, though…

[seebart]

unfortunately I have not been able to try beamspring. You know I had a Topre Realforce, that deal in our maketplace almost gone sour...you remember. I did not like Topre that much, but that will not lessen my beamspring anticipation.
When I started getting excited about mechanical keyboards a couple of years ago I bought all kinds of keyboards like a madman. Quite a few of those I don´t use anymore simply because their not my favorites. I´ve started to restrict myself and focus on the important stuff that is on my wanted list that I am still missing, but the list is getting shorter.

[Hypersphere]

unfortunately I have not been able to try beamspring. You know I had a Topre Realforce, that deal in our maketplace almost gone sour...you remember. I did not like Topre that much, but that will not lessen my beamspring anticipation.
When I started getting excited about mechanical keyboards a couple of years ago I bought all kinds of keyboards like a madman. Quite a few of those I don´t use anymore simply because their not my favorites. I´ve started to restrict myself and focus on the important stuff that is on my wanted list that I am still missing, but the list is getting shorter.

It is difficult to imagine someone not liking Topre. Perhaps you tried a variable-weight RF? I am sure that the 30 or 35g switches would be far too light to get the proper Topre experience. I find 45g a bit light, especially on the Novatouch. However, my all-55g RF 87ub is superb. But I also like my HHKB Pro 2; perhaps it could be improved somewhat with 55g switches, but the form factor and layout compensate admirably.

I can relate to buying keyboards like a madman, but I have recently tapered my buying, and I have now sold all my new Cherry mx boards. However, at times, such as during a full moon, the itch to buy keyboards comes back.

My study and the adjoining walk-in closet have shelves with keyboard acquisitions in boxes awaiting refurbishing and converting to USB. I hope to sell most of these after they are refurbished and converted, but I want to keep the more noteworthy keyboards to put into my rotation.

The ones to keep would include a beam spring, AT, F107, and F122; I already have a completed XT that is in my rotation.

Still keeping my radar operational, scanning for the elusive F77, F104 unsaver, and the F62 Kishsaver.