Putting Together an Order at Elite Keyboards… No, Tenso!

[brdrgz]

Yes! I just ordered mine from EK and it just arrived yesterday. I would suggest getting a Type-S. These things are fresh off the factory line and smell like it too (looks like mine has a manufactured date of 2014-07). Also, if you are a previous HHKB owner and just prestiged and have now arrived once again at the endgame of keyboards, let it be known that you do not need the Mac OS X driver if you're running Yosemite. Just flip the DIP #2 to the ON position and you are ready to roll with all of the OS X media, power and eject functions. Might want to pick up the control/esc set and some spacebars before they become unobtainable like the colored keysets. Enjoy!

EDIT: I need to get a black USB cable ASAP. Dont' really care for the look of the white one.

HHKB + goodies

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[scottc]

I've seen a number of posts about doing a spring swap to generate 62g blacks. However, aren't stock blacks 60g? So, you want them heavier, but by only 2g?

This is a common misconception due to the ambiguous terms used when referring to springs. The Cherry ratings refer to the required force to actuate the switch, whereas the ratings of custom springs usually refer to the force required to completely bottom out. It's counter-intuitive, I know. 62g springs are somewhere between MX black and MX red, which is the sweet spot, in my opinion. I also found MX reds too light for everyday typing.

While I much prefer buckling spring, beam spring, Topre or Monterey Blues, I do find 62g MX blacks tolerable and even quite pleasant to use at work, where I need a more "SFW" board.

Thanks for the explanation! Now it makes sense! Yes, I should think that the sweet spot would be somewhere between mx black and mx red.

If I were ever to do such a mod, I think it might be on a DIY switchless board with a bag of switches that I could modify without desoldering.

Where do you get the custom springs?

I did my mod to a PCB-mount Cherry G80-1800 because they're very cheap, ubiquitous and have a moderately good layout (for a full-size board, though they are the width of a TKL). No soldering required since the board has no plate! The whole job was about two hours, including adding switch stickers. I got the springs from Sprit's recent group buy.

We seem to have drifted a bit off-topic again...

[Muirium]

That's just what we do!

@brdrgz: A couple of things put me off the Type-S. I've put damping rings on my NovaTouch, which isn't the same as a Topre anyway, but gives me a taste of what damping does in there. It improves that board, but I'm not so sure about its effect on an HHKB. I didn't find the one I borrowed at all annoying.

Ah, here's a good video of the effect. My damped NovaTouch is very similar in sound to the Type-S upstroke here:

It's an improvement, I guess. But not a compelling one, to my ears. I prefer the sound of damped Alps to damped Topre! More satisfying some way, while being just as quiet.

If the price difference wasn't as high maybe I'd consider it. But that's a big markup for something I might not actually like.

But the real reason is that "Type-S" logo on the top of the case. Unclean! Asymmetric! Better off without!

[brdrgz]

That's just what we do!

@brdrgz: A couple of things put me off the Type-S. I've put damping rings on my NovaTouch, which isn't the same as a Topre anyway, but gives me a taste of what damping does in there. It improves that board, but I'm not so sure about its effect on an HHKB. I didn't find the one I borrowed at all annoying.

Ah, here's a good video of the effect. My damped NovaTouch is very similar in sound to the Type-S upstroke here:

Spoiler:

It's an improvement, I guess. But not a compelling one, to my ears. I prefer the sound of damped Alps to damped Topre! More satisfying some way, while being just as quiet.

If the price difference wasn't as high maybe I'd consider it. But that's a big markup for something I might not actually like.

But the real reason is that "Type-S" logo on the top of the case. Unclean! Asymmetric! Better off without!

Hey man, I hear ya. Different strokes, different folks.

[iAmAhab]

Yeah, they're definitely an option. The thing I worry about, going mail order to Britain though, is something like this:

http://deskthority.net/post186348.html#p186348

Only with more ouch!

I've seen handling fees like you people wouldn't believe… Attack slips on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-notes glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those… imports… will be lost in time, like taxes… in… rain.

I am well aware of the pain of handling fees. Here it costs 12£ for product values up to 89£, and 24£ when over. I have yet to deduce a logical explenation for this. And then you have to pay 25% of the product value in taxes on top of the handling fees.

Luckily my HHKB slipped though the cracks of the system.

[Muirium]

Why do we even have these sky high taxes here? To "protect" our booming domestic keyboard industry!? There's literally no one retailing HHKBs inside Europe anyway! Talk about easy, cynical cash grab.

I wouldn't even mind if it were "only" the 20% VAT. But it's always some random booster above that as well.

[brdrgz]

That's insane. Sales tax here in Texas is 8.25% (unless you're buying cigarettes or liquor which are apparently "sins" ). Then again we've got fuckall in the way of citizen benefit and assistance programs..

[Muirium]

To be fair, we are all civilised and shit…

[Hypersphere]

@Mu: Thanks for posting the video. That guy really hammers away at those poor little HHKBs! His Type-S doesn't sound like mine. As I described in another post, my Type-S felt and sounded as if the sliders were wrapped in tissue paper. I think I prefer the sound of my undamped HHKB, plasticky return-stroke clack and all. However, I prefer the sound of my RF 87ub 55g to my HHKB Pro 2. There is some clack in the RF, but it is not sufficiently bothersome to induce me to buy a silent model or to do one of the silencing mods. I am glad of this preference, because silenced RFs have become difficult to acquire in the US.

[Halvar]

That must be a UK thing then. I have always only paid VAT and in some cases a storage charge when I took more than 3 days to pick up my stuff from the Zoll.

I wonder if TTIP will even change any of this. It will probably make nothing easier at all for consumers, because I don't see our goverment forgoing the VAT on imports.

[Muirium]

If only more Scots imported stuff. They would have voted for independence then. UK customs definitely worse than many nations in Europe (did I mention we get hit on "gifts" as well?) and being in Scotland I have to wait a while as everything goes through England, first. Late and costly. Yum!

And they're maybe getting a referendum to take us out of the EU entirely…

[Khers]

A bit late to the party, but I recently got my HHKB from EK when a friend was over in the US. I picked up both types of grease as well, originally because I had plans for some MX-switches, but I came to use both types on both my Topres. Bear in mind that the stabilizers on a HHKB come pre-lubed (at least they did on mine). In general I would say that to my experience the HHKB feels a bit smoother out of the box than an RF and therefore in less need of lubing. I did it since I wanted to try silencing and figured it was worth a shot when the keyboard was opened anyway.

Regardless of where you end up buying it from, I hope you will be satisfied. It's a pretty expensive keyboard after all. If not, it will not be difficult to pass it on.

[Muirium]

Yup. I always offer that advice for people considering HHKBs. If you don't like it, you don't need to hold onto it. They practically sell themselves over here in Europe!

I'm eyeing up an order through Tenso now. 002 was right, they're substantially cheaper than EK, even in a sale.

[Hypersphere]

@Mu: I hadn't thought of HHKBs as particularly noisy until I saw your sample video. If you had a room full of these guys typing at speed, it reminds me of this:

Boott Mills Cotton Looms. I wonder if dampening rings would help these things?

[Muirium]

So I did it. The order is placed. (In Japan, not America.) And the roulette wheel starts to spin.

Brdrgz might be pleasantly surprised what I eventually picked! I watched that video too many times. And the difference in Japan is a mere £30 so…

[Khers]

You'll have to get a normal one as well at some point!

I'm considering getting a Type-S just to see which one I really prefer... End game keyboard? HA, there is no such thing!

[Hypersphere]

@Mu, you will definitely need a standard HHKB Pro 2 for comparison with the Type-S. And a bottle of white-out to hide the Type-S name of the case.

When I use my standard HHKB, the return stroke clack starts to annoy me, but when I use the Type-S, I get the impression of the sliders being wrapped in tissue paper; this sound and feel compel me to switch back to the standard model. Perhaps the standard model with silencing pads would feel and sound better than the Type-S, which has different sliders as well as silencing pads.

We await your review!

[Muirium]

Naturally, I was considering getting one of each! They're highly sought after here in Europe. And maybe even this bargain priced JIS layout Realforce:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000EQHU62/r ... PHQMS7FO06

Which likely looks something similar to 002's one by JUST Systems:



Something about the Japanese layout really appeals to me. The legends, the extra mods, and that little spacebar! I wonder if it's already PBT?

But too much shipping spells trouble! That Realforce weighs 1.5 kg, which is around 3 HHKBs…

[Hypersphere]

Yes, the Japanese layout JUST Systems keyboard does look appealing in some ways. Nine mods on the bottom row! Not sure what I would do with all of them. However, I really like the diminutive spacebar. But I would need an ANSI layout for Enter with at least a 1.25x key directly above for Backspace/Delete.

[singing] ...three happy hacking...

[brdrgz]

The tissue paper feeling appears to go away after a while. I've almost had it for a full week now, but I can only feel a difference on some of the less frequently used keys. I love the look of those JUST Systems boards (especially the newly released full-size ones), but I really need ANSI to hack happily.

@Hypersphere I can't believe you don't like the "Type-S"! At least it's not like buying a used North American Honda Civic with a Type-R badge slapped on the back and some red H logos.

(The Honda Civic Type-R is only produced and sold in the Japanese domestic market, but a similar look can be achieved by changing some emblems, wheel colors and badges)

[Muirium]

He's just riffing off something I started. And I was just rationalising my preference at the time for the regular HHKB against the Type-S. I've clearly turned around a little bit these last few days!

Call me a hypocrite (I enjoy it!), I swung to the Type-S because I reckoned the premium in Japan is slim enough to be worth a shot. The regular HHKB Pro 2 has been slowly edging up in price for a while:

camelchart-locale-jpasin-b000exz0vcpricetypes-newforce-1zero-1w-725h-440desired-falselegend-1ilt-1tp-allfo-1lang-en2014-12-1513_55_30.png (29.58 KiB) Viewed 10358 times

But the Type-S has stayed the same. The difference now is 29,800/24,990 = a 19% premium in Japan. Compared to the 331/235 = 40% premium at EK. I opted to take the chance. I basically couldn't argue myself to turn it down!

The Type-S logo doesn't look so bad really…

Anyway, thanks for confirming my suspicion that the feel improves with use. I intend to get my money's worth from the HHKB, as it's long been my dream keyboard with one of my favourite switches in a sublime layout. And upstroke damping is something Cookie's rings on the NovaTouch has given me a little taste of.

[webwit]

Love the sound of the HHKB. Would never pay more to muffle it.

[Hypersphere]

The tissue paper feeling appears to go away after a while. I've almost had it for a full week now, but I can only feel a difference on some of the less frequently used keys. I love the look of those JUST Systems boards (especially the newly released full-size ones), but I really need ANSI to hack happily.

@Hypersphere I can't believe you don't like the "Type-S"! At least it's not like buying a used North American Honda Civic with a Type-R badge slapped on the back and some red H logos.

(The Honda Civic Type-R is only produced and sold in the Japanese domestic market, but a similar look can be achieved by changing some emblems, wheel colors and badges)

Yes, I can't believe it either! It's not that I definitely don't like the Type-S. Part of it is that it isn't what I had expected. I will bring it into my keyboard rotation to see if I warm up to it in time, although usually I know right away whether or not I really like something.

At the moment, I am typing on my new KBP V60 Matias Quiet Click Mini keyboard, and I like it much more than I had expected I would. The V60 Matias is as quiet if not quieter than my Type-S, and it feels more definitive. Another thing in its favor is that with a combination of DIP switch settings and Karabiner software for the Mac, I am able to remap the V60 to a Mac/HHKB layout. And it even has a CapsLock LED. The V60 Matias would definitely be a keeper if there were some good dye-sub PBT keycap sets for it.

[Muirium]

Love the sound of the HHKB. Would never pay more to muffle it.

I was originally thinking of buying one of each. But I don't want to be caught with my pants down if you know who finds out you know what when it reaches the thing with the whatyamaccallit.

Same with that tasty Realforce. Games for another day…

[Hypersphere]

Love the sound of the HHKB. Would never pay more to muffle it.

I was originally thinking of buying one of each. But I don't want to be caught with my pants down if you know who finds out you know what when it reaches the thing with the whatyamaccallit.

Same with that tasty Realforce. Games for another day…

Seeking perfection
He acquires silent hacking
Now inscrutable!

[Muirium]

Oh my, what do we have here, eh?

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My mum's photograph, not mine. But that HHKB Type-S has my name on it! Expect a lot more and a µ-review when her holiday's over and I pickup my loot. Including this…

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You know, just in case a black one shows up at some point and I want to make it presentable!

[Khers]

Nice, Muirium! Does this mean that you have even more stuff on the wrong side of the pond? Or will you finally receive your stuff after the holidays?

[Muirium]

Both. The HHKB is top priority for flying over. And my mum already took a shine to its cute little bag…

The 3276, meanwhile, stays in situ for me to play with when I'm over there myself. Besides, a haul like that you don't cart all at once.

[Khers]

Looking forward to your review of the Type-S! Considering getting one myself, when the timing is right

[Madhias]

Me too looking forward to your review then! I read Hyperspheres review or experience write-up, and when i remember correctly he did not like it as much as other keyboards, so it will be interesting what you think of the Type-S.