Forum member refusing full refund after delivery sent to wro

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 12:15

I bought some bits and bobs from a forum member (let's call him Mr XX) in Europe. I paid extra for tracked postage to the UK.

Mr XX sent me a tracking number, which after just one day told me the package had been successfully delivered to the USA, rather than the UK. See screenshot at end...

I got in touch with Mr XX and he told me that he'd sent two packages out that day, one to the USA and mine, which he says he definitely sent to the UK, although there is no proof of this. He told me to wait, while he got to the bottom of it all.

After more than two weeks of waiting he tells me he is prepared to refund 50%. He's insisting that's he's completely blameless. I quote Mr XX: "I don't want to refund the full amount. I did my part of the job. I have absolutely zero real responsability here."

Does this seem fair to anyone here?

I'd expect to receive a full refund.

What do you think?

Nuum · 29 Jan 2015, 12:17

Doesn't he have the tracking number to the UK package?
As long as he can proof that he shipped the items, he can not be made reliable for a lost packet or other errors while shipping, I think.

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 12:26

The tracking number he gave me is the one in the screen grab above. It says package was delivered in the USA, rather than the UK.

This suggests that he may have incorrectly addressed the package. The tracking number he gave me doesn't show the address that was put on the package.

Muirium · 29 Jan 2015, 12:27

In any case, it's definitely not your responsibility, Moley.

Nuum · 29 Jan 2015, 12:34

If he has sent two packages he should have two tracking numbers, ask him for the other one!

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 12:35

Muirium wrote: ↑In any case, it's definitely not your responsibility, Moley.

So a 100% refund, yes…?

Halvar · 29 Jan 2015, 12:36

If he has no tracking number that matches this transaction he obviously did not do his "part of the job". Even if it got lost in the mail, the mail service can only investigate with the tracking number.

100% refund, clearly.

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 12:36

Nuum wrote: ↑If he has sent two packages he should have two tracking numbers, ask him for the other one!

Mr XX said this:

"I didn't made any mistake.

I try the other tracking number and it is also in US. the two letters are supposed to be arrived in the US.

I send an email to the postal service. I am waiting for an answer.

I don't know if it is lost or if there is a chance that they correct their mistake and send it to UK.

I keep you informed."

Halvar · 29 Jan 2015, 13:03

FWIW, you can track what happens in the US at the USPS. Looks like it hasn't reached its destination in the US yet. When it has arrived, the sender will at least be able to say which tracking number was which.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmA ... 00097018FR

Nuum · 29 Jan 2015, 13:11

If it's a mistake of the shipping company -> 50% refund (or maybe no refund), if it can't be resolved with the shipping company, otherwise full refund.
If it's his mistake -> full refund.

Muirium · 29 Jan 2015, 13:13

Jamaica, NY? It's in Wrong Island!

bhtooefr · 29 Jan 2015, 14:30

If you told the seller to ship the item to your address, and paid them to do this at a rate that you and the seller agreed upon, then it's the seller's responsibility to ensure that it makes it to you, regardless of the cost to them.

It'd be another story if you paid a courier to pick the item up from the seller - at that point, the seller's delivery obligation would be complete upon the courier's receipt of the item, and any problems would be between you and the courier service. But, that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 14:30

It is me.

I send two letters from France, one for the us and one for the uk.

kudosgodspeed received his package without trouble (he lives in the US).

I have proof of payment that i send two letters on this day with tracking number. But i didn't take picture of the letters. First time i have trouble with this so i am not use to do that.

I did no mistake when i put the sticker on the letter. So i gave moley the good number and i have no idea why it is now in the US...

I keep him informed regurarly since the trouble and i told him that i couldn't go to the postal office until saturday morning because i work too much this week. And he preferred to post it here...

Less than a month passed since the shipping, it wasn't a priority letter, we all know that it could take a lot of weeks.

Moley didn't quote my complete message.

i ask him, if it seems fair to split the responsability. And in a few more weeks i would have refund half of the total amount if nothing happen.

He didn't pay for insurance.

The transfer of property started when the package left my home.

I have clearly zero responsability here, i am not a pro seller and i thought it would be fair to split the amount. Since the tracking number seems to not work properly, i will also never have proof that he didn't received it.

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 14:36

If it is now in JAMAICA and if USPS continue to update the track then there is still hope

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 15:00

Hi Antoine,

Might as well keep this in the open.

I paid EURO 5.10 for registered/tracked postage - 100g package.

According to La Poste R2 packages automatically have insurance up to EURO 153.00

If the package isn't delivered it will return to sender, that's you... So, either way you're covered and will not lose out.

Please can I have a full refund.

After all, you are insured and the package will most likely turn up at your address.

Thanks,

moley

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 15:05

It is not a R2 letter.

It is a "Lettre suivie internationale" for 5,20€

"Service d'envoi suivi international de lettres et petits objets jusqu'à 3 cm d'épaisseur"

There is not my address on the package so it cannot come back to me.

Please send me your quote on the La Poste website.

The letter is still moving through US so i will not made any refund until it is declared lost.

Nuum · 29 Jan 2015, 15:15

Jup, I'd say it's a good idea to wait with any possible refunds until tracking stops. Have you asked your postal service what is going on there? Why didn't you put your address on the letter, Ichigo? May I ask how high of a value we are discussing here?

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 15:23

We speak about 32€ if i remember correctly.

I send emails but it is not the way to communicate with them, i have to go to a postal office to get a real contact.

I didn't put my address, because it is not a shipping method that assure you that it will be send back to you in case of wrong address. So it is useless.

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 15:37

I found the insurance on this page: http://www.french-property.com/guides/f ... -services/

fohat · 29 Jan 2015, 15:40

This is an area of great frustration to me.

As a seller, after I have securely packaged an item, addressed it properly, and handed it over to the shipper, I have no control over it any more.

I disagree with the "ebay philosophy" that it is my full repsonsibility to ensure that the item arrives undamaged into the buyer's hands.

Frankly, when the box crosses the counter at the Post Office, and I have received the ticket with a tracking number on it, then it is completely out of my hands, both literally and figuratively.

But ebay has always been heavily biased in favor of buyers and against sellers.

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 15:41

First, is is not the website of La Poste. Price and insurance are wrong (we are in 2015).

R2 is more expensive than that (7,30€), give only 150€ of indemnisation and it is only for DOCUMENT.

You should have paid 13,15€ instead of 5,20€ to get a 32€ insurance.

seebart · 29 Jan 2015, 15:46

hmm bad situation, but if you addressed the envelope to moley correctly than it is not your fault, but if I read all this correctly then that can only be proven once that envelope is returned?! I have experienced similar situations where DHL claimed they could not read the address and simply improvised by sending it to where ever they saw fit. I guess in the age of smartphones with cameras it could be a good habit of simply taking a shot if the envelope, but then again I never do either!

fohat wrote: ↑This is an area of great frustration to me.

As a seller, after I have securely packaged an item, addressed it properly, and handed it over to the shipper, I have no control over it any more.

I disagree with the "ebay philosophy" that it is my full repsonsibility to ensure that the item arrives undamaged into the buyer's hands.

Frankly, when the box crosses the counter at the Post Office, and I have received the ticket with a tracking number on it, then it is completely out of my hands, both literally and figuratively.

But ebay has always been heavily biased in favor of buyers and against sellers.

I agree, if the sender did his best than it`s not his fault, he should help the best he can to clear this up. So in this case two packages, one to UK and one to the USA. Both went to the US? Damn disgrunted postal workers!

I not sure about the refund at this point! Is there any hope on getting it back to either of you?

moley · 29 Jan 2015, 16:16

Hi Antoine,

Will you be able to go to the Post Office this weekend?

copter · 29 Jan 2015, 16:24

Two things that come into my mind.

1. Isn't there any way to check is the address correct? This probably is solved when Ichigo87 goes to the post office on Saturday. So after that it's probably known where things have gone wrong and what in the end will happen with the package etc. Making assumptions before that I think is a bit too early, as there still might be a way to salvage the situation. This might not be the case here, but our local post always gives receipt that includes copy of the address where the package has been sent (if it's tracked).

2. During last 15 years I have had maybe 3 packages that I have shipped inside Europe, which still because of some strange mail routing system error etc have actually gone through US (and Asia too!), then returned back to Europe and found their way into sender or receiver. Not very likely, but it's definitely possible.

Spikebolt · 29 Jan 2015, 16:34

Seems like posting here was a pretty hasty and unfair situation. If the guy was going to the post office on saturday why not wait until then?

If the post office lost your stuff then 50% compensation is pretty fair since it's not your buyer nor the seller's fault. Splitting the damage seems fair. The seller shouldn't refund you anything until this situation was 100% clear with the post office.

Muirium · 29 Jan 2015, 16:38

Ugly situation indeed. I still think Moley is in the right, mind, and deserves a 100% refund if this vanishes. Which seems likely as Ichigo neglected to add a return address. That's crazy! The post office here refuses to send international parcels without a return address and customs declaration. And even for super cheapo post it still works.

A recent example: my old man had a small parcel bounce back from Moscow this month, marked unknown at this address. I found it on his doormat while house sitting. It was something he sold on ebay, and he's a miserable penny pincher so you can bet it was cheapest possible post. No fees required in any case. Post systems prefer to clear these things off their hands. Even Russia's.

matt3o · 29 Jan 2015, 16:48

recently happened that a parcel shipped to me went to Australia instead (from UK). it happens... when it happens it needs up to two months for the package to be routed to the correct destination.

I don't see how it could be Ichigo87's fault if the tracking he gave is the right one.

ramnes · 29 Jan 2015, 18:39

That's exactly why I always take a picture of the package just before giving it to postal guys.

Ichigo87 · 29 Jan 2015, 18:51

In France, with cheap shipping method, no need to put return address because they will not send it back to you. And when you add a tracking number, it is only a number that you sticked on the package unlinked to the address you wrote on the package.

So i did nothing crazy, i just followed the rules and choose the method that moley valided with me.

I even immediatly refund moley of the difference between what i asked and what i really pay.

Muirium · 29 Jan 2015, 19:35

They might not advertise the fact that returns happen, but the fact I've seen them from plenty of places (including Russia now) says to me that it's standard international procedure. If there's one thing these companies hate more than losing an upsale, it's having to deal with parcels with nowhere to go. It will come back to you if you put a sender address on it.