Noppoo tease a very familiar capacitive switch design

[Nuum]

Indeed it sounds scratchy and a little bit cheap, but I've never tried a real Topre.

[cookie]

A real Topre is by far superior, I can tell this just by watching the video.

[ماء]

even the box copied also

[cookie]

It is very cheeky to even counterfeit the packaging... #justAsianThings

[overstrike]

It's now available on Massdrop, if anyone's interested.

[JBert]

You can past links here, you know.

Is it this one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/noppoo-ec-108-pro ?

[Muirium]

Registration roadblock:

Screen Shot 2015-02-11 at 12.08.01 pm.png (2.27 MiB) Viewed 6851 times

They really do need to get rid of that. Which you can do for yourself by adding ?mode=guest_open at the end of the URL, but c'mon…

[bhtooefr]

As I understand, they have to have the regwall because of supplier agreements. It's a common thing in US sales that you can't just directly advertise a price below MSRP from some manufacturers, you have to put it behind a membership wall or at least require that the person put it in their cart before purchasing.

[ray4jc]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/noppoo-ec- ... guest_open#

this makes it easier to see

[davkol]

...and a review over at Geekhack.

[Stabilized]

That review makes it sound very tempting, if I could get it for the equivalent of $120, which I don't think you can currently in Europe (unless you know someone who can proxy with minimal fees from TaoBao).

I would be interested to buy one to try out if they did one in a TKL form factor (or smaller), and I am not compelled to buy a Royal Kludge unless there is another review like this one out there pointing out all the good points.

[Muirium]

Funny. When 002 had his hands on one of these, he thought it was a bit of a turd. Guess it all comes down to the reviewer.

I remember well just how scathing Matteo was about the NovaTouch! I gave it more benefit of the doubt, but the more time passes the more I find that he was right. This MX compatible Topre market is still looking for its first real champion.

[Stabilized]

So was it just the rattle that really put you off the Novatouch?

But I know what you mean; I know I am in a minority when I say that I am really not a big fan of the stock HHKB as it feels too flimsy when I type on it compared to my RF 55g, Leopold FC660C, Novatouch.

I really enjoy trying the different iterations of topre and have enjoyed all of them, I just can't pick up a full size keyboard like the Noppoo anymore! I have already given that portion of my desk to other things

[cookie]

As you said, it depends on the reviewer. I think that the mindset about clones slightly changed over the time, in favor for the clones. A hot topic on GH are Gateron switches, which are MX clones. They look different/better and as it seems they are a lot smoother than the original.

The idea of getting the real thing for less money is in fact very tempting! Time will show if they really worth the money.
I will stick to the original so long

[Muirium]

Funny how people have their loyalties. GH is all over MX clones, yet you just try to take on the Clack Factory over there…


@Stabilised: Yeah, a keyboard's got to be real special to excuse extra bulk for me, too. Helps if it's made of metal and puts me off the idea of taking a buzzsaw to it!

The rattle is indeed the NovaTouch's ultimate flaw. Most annoying. I really like the caps it opens up for me — I'm on it just now for a change, and the Round 4 SPH are as curvilicious as ever — but it doesn't feel like my HHKB to me at all. It's not crap, but it's not the real deal native Topre either. If it weren't for all my MX caps, I'd probably not bother with it. This board can thank 7bit and Matteo for remaining in my possession! As is, I still prefer it to MX. Well, modern, scratchy, stock MX…

[Stabilized]

If it weren't for all my MX caps, I'd probably not bother with it. This board can thank 7bit and Matteo for remaining in my possession!

I managed to pick a Novatouch up for pretty cheap and this is pretty much the only reason I have kept mine as well!
I have to say that I find it to be a bit lighter and less tactile then the Leopold, might be because I have used the Leopold a lot and I think Topre boobs are meant to get stiffer with use?

I too am still looking for another Cherry MX compatible Topre/Topre-esque board that feels as good/better then the Leopold FC660C, which is most probably my favourite.

Interesting you mentioned about the rattle though, I don't think I really noticed it much on my Novatouch, I know it will nag on my ears forever more now you pointed it out though!

[Sniping]

Hey, I posted that GH review a few days ago (I also take a look at Matias's new switch in the same thread).

There's are some differences in quality between this keyboard and a Topre keyboard, but the cost difference between the two is still a good amount. I'm aware that the build quality is of concern, and I opened up the keyboard as well, and I found that the case flexes a lot on its own, but the overall rigidity of the keyboard is fine when typing because it's plate mounted.

I would stick with the genuine stuff like the HHKB if you can afford it, but this adds another product to the market.

I'll be reviewing the Royal Kludge in a month or so. It's clearly made by Noppoo and RGB sounds interesting, and the pricing is almost the same as the Noppoo 108EC Pro, so we'll see how that goes.

[Muirium]

Ah, the Royal Kludge. Sounds like how our unwritten constitution came together here in Britain! Or what fannying around will befall us when Charlie's time for the throne finally comes, and no one wants him…

Noppoo is definitely a threat to Topre's continued keyboard business. (Topre does a bunch more things than keyboards, which would make withdrawal from the market more likely than them going under.) Noppoo's always going to win on price. That's the whole purpose of a cloner.

Fortunately for Topre, Realforces and HHKBs (and lately Leopold's Topre model) have a premium place in the keyboard realm, with a great reputation. Anyone who buys them in the west is going out their way to get it. Especially Europeans like me, who have to import HHKBs for ourselves, as they're sold nowhere here. Noppoo has a tall order to win that kind of high end custom.

I'd say Cherry is more threatened by clone switches from Kaihua (or whatever their name is in Latin text this week) than Topre is by clones like Noppoo. Cherry is mostly just a component in other people's boards. Topre is more like IBM was, back in the Model M days and earlier: the whole enchilada.

[davkol]

Cherry supplies keyboards to organizations just like Topre.

[Muirium]

I know. But Cherry's current* keyboards don't have a premium reputation, or price. All the action in the MX world is with other manufacturers, who use Cherry's switches as a component, rather than the whole point of the product.

When you buy a Realforce, you're getting a top notch keyboard with considerable resale value built into it. When you buy a Cherry, well, not so much.


*As the crazy prices for various rare old G80 and G81s show, this was not always the case. But I honestly don't understand Cherry collectors. Seems to be all about arbitrary scarcity and not the inherent quality of the boards themselves.

[davkol]

Both Topre and Cherry quite often let people know that they don't really give a damn about individuals. Governments and corporations on the other hand… and this sort of customers particularly cares for various certifications. Cherry can offer that, the Chinese can't. Besides, I don't see the German government(s) shopping for ICT equipment in China these days (cough, backdoors, cough).

[zts]

Well ... actually much better than I expected. I'm testing the 35g version and out-of-the-box experience is better than the initial experience with NovaTouch (which I spent weeks messing with till I simply mimicked Mu and got it to the point where it's acceptable). Or, it may be that I just had too high expectations with NovaTouch and lower than low expectation with Noppoo. Not sure if Noppoo did any meaningful modifications since the pre-public release, but they almost got it right with auditory feedback, while tactile is not there yet. It does feel lighter than 35g so maybe 45/55g would be more tactile. I think including the factory-installed PBTs is where Noppoo was right and NovaTouch cut corners.

At worst: a fake that mimics Topre fairly OK and covers the rest with aggressive pricing.
At best: in their attempt to clone but also avoid Topre infringements, Noppoo created something that is not Topre, but it's not anything else either. A unique product that may have its own market?

[Muirium]

Well, maybe if they put a knob on it…

[zts]

yeah ... a knob would probably do

[zts]

... funny thing is that this keyboard (Noppoo 108EC-Pro) boots up my PC desktop (Win 7 Pro, 64) from the completely shut-down state by touching/pressing any key. I've seen this behavior on some Lenovos where when a keyboard is attached to a specific USB port you can power the computer by Ctrl+P. Some Gigabyte mobos (which is on this PC) support this behavior for PS/2. Now, I don't mind this behavior, and in fact it's more of a feature than a nuisance, but no other, vintage or modern day, keyboard does this when attached to this system. Any ideas why?

[Mal-2]

Well, maybe if they put a knob on it…

It seems to me a linear slider would be preferable to a knob. It's less likely to get knocked about or catch on anything, and it's also a lot less visually intrusive. The down side is that it's harder to seal against spills, but it's probably no worse than the key stems are in that respect.

... funny thing is that this keyboard (Noppoo 108EC-Pro) boots up my PC desktop (Win 7 Pro, 64) from the completely shut-down state by touching/pressing any key. I've seen this behavior on some Lenovos where when a keyboard is attached to a specific USB port you can power the computer by Ctrl+P. Some Gigabyte mobos (which is on this PC) support this behavior for PS/2. Now, I don't mind this behavior, and in fact it's more of a feature than a nuisance, but no other, vintage or modern day, keyboard does this when attached to this system. Any ideas why?

Any PS/2 keyboard should be able to start the machine. What keys do so are selected from the BIOS. I have mine set to start from scratch only on Ctrl+Esc, but it's a bit irrelevant now. Any key brings it out of sleep mode (PS/2 or USB), and USB keyboards won't cause it to power up (from a cold start) no matter what key combination is used. I also have a 15 year old case with a power button that likes to stick when pressed, so that doesn't connect to anything. The smaller "reset" button is actually used for power.

If you have a USB keyboard bringing your machine up from fully powered off, that IS somewhat unusual.

[zts]

^ ... yes, it's a USB KB ... no other USB keyboard (tried with maybe 20 or more) does this. Weird. No other problems or surprise features.

[zslane]

For some of us, price is less important than selection (of various options). After all, most of us are modders who are looking for something highly custom and niche; it ain't ever gonna be cheap for us. Griping on the price of any of this stuff strikes me as rather odd.

Now, if CM made a properly damped hybrid Topre model with full ANSI layout, detchable USB cable, and choice of black or white case, then I'd be all over it almost regardless of price. But they don't (and probably don't plan to any time soon). They are leaving money on the table and allowing companies like the cloners swoop in and take that business. For the companies with good products--but with limited variety of options and hideously short product lifecycles--it is their business to lose, and I can't really bring myself to crucify the cloners for providing a product the big dogs refuse to.

I will probably never buy a board with genuine Topres, no matter how great it sounds and feels, because they can't take the gorgeous SA-family keycaps I expect to have an abundance of. So all the vaunted benefits of real Topres are utterly irrelevent to me, unfortunately. Such comparisons are meaningless to someone with SA addiction.

So given the options I am looking for, sometimes my only choice is a clone that comes close to feeling like the real thing. The benefit of clones (to the marketplace) is threefold: lower prices (usually), which promotes competition, which in turn motivates new vendors to step in an offer combinations/options that the top dogs won't. If clones like Noppoo get Topre or CM to loosen the bone on the design and availability, we all benefit.

[davkol]

HiPro

[Hypersphere]

Of the many parts that add up to more than the whole in a HHKB or RF87u, the key caps are one of the best. Unlike the variability found in caps for Cherry mx boards, Topre caps integrate with the switch to create a unified system that works perfectly. Moreover, the PBT is delightful to touch, and the dye sublimation is beautiful to behold. Topre and PFU have well-deserved excellent reputations for their keyboard products. However, no matter how good you are, if you become complacent, you eventually will be brought down by the competition.