[Interest Check] Silencing Rings for Topre RF or HHKB

[Hypersphere]

I have been working with companies that make custom parts from various polymers and foams with the goal of duplicating or even improving upon the silencing rings used in silent Topre RF and Type-S HHKBs.

This has gone very well, and I expect to have prototypes for final testing next week. Before placing an order, I wanted to get feedback from DT members to see how many people would be interested in purchasing silencing rings for Topre switches and how many of these each person would want.

The MOQ is 500 rings for 375 USD, which would be 75 cents per ring. You would need 60 rings for a HHKB (total 45 USD) or 87 for an RF 87u (total 65.25 USD). As in most kinds of manufacturing, the unit cost usually decreases as the number of units purchased increases above a threshold value (MOQ), but I wanted to assess interest before getting quotes for larger numbers of rings.

They can make the rings in the stock thickness of 0.15 mm and in an even thinner grade (0.10 mm) of the same material. I plan to test both thicknesses next week to confirm that the new 0.15 mm rings are as effective as the rings taken from a silent RF board and to determine if the 0.10 mm rings are as effective as the 0.15 mm ones.

I will keep you posted on progress.

[ramnes]

Count me in.

[pyrelink]

I would be in for a HHKB set!

[slackface]

Would be in for 70. 70 of each if there are variances.

Edit: Not in anymore, sorry.

[TheNacho]

I would be in for atleast an 87 key set. The final piece for Nova55

[Stabilized]

Yes please, I would be up for set!

[Khers]

I'd be in for a HHKB set

[zts]

I'm in for 87.

[Madhias]

Would be interested!

[ray4jc]

Is there any discount with a larger order?

Say 1000 units?

[Ace]

I don't plan on getting any Topres ATM, but I'd definitely prefer to avoid going Type-S and go with these instead.

[kudosgodspeed]

I'd honestly be interested in going in on 200-250 units. But that is entirely contingent on how well they perform. It would be preferable to get decent performance out of the thinner variety as key travel is important to me. Please provide your findings Hypersphere and I will definitely invest if we can get consistent sound/performance better than the current soft-landing pad/dental band/silicon punch mods out there.

[Hypersphere]

Is there any discount with a larger order?

Say 1000 units?

Now that it appears there is sufficient interest to order at least 1000 units, I will request new quotes next week and let everyone know the price.

As soon as I get the prototypes, I will test them to see if they perform at least as well as the rings from silent Topre RF or Type-S HH keyboards.

[Muirium]

What are they charging you for prototypes? And are those contingent on committing to a large order?

That seems to be the case with Matteo's PBT Topre-compatible space bar GB, or at least that's my reading.

[Hypersphere]

What are they charging you for prototypes? And are those contingent on committing to a large order?

That seems to be the case with Matteo's PBT Topre-compatible space bar GB, or at least that's my reading.

After quite a bit of communication and negotiation, it appears they will be sending a few prototypes for free, but I have indicated that if the prototypes test well, then they can expect at least a minimal order of 500 units.

[Muirium]

Very good. What about extra, uncut, pieces of the material for handling stabs? You might be able to really quiet down your hacked HHKB Type-S that way. And will you test these on a NovaTouch as well? The sliders are a bit wider than standard Topre. Not much, but worth checking.

[Hypersphere]

Very good. What about extra, uncut, pieces of the material for handling stabs? You might be able to really quiet down your hacked HHKB Type-S that way. And will you test these on a NovaTouch as well? The sliders are a bit wider than standard Topre. Not much, but worth checking.

Regarding stabilizers, I had some thicker rings from the stabilized keys in a silent RF. The thicker rings are made from a material different from that used in rings for unstabilized keys. The thicker rings seemed to affect key travel and so I used the standard rings in my modded HHKB. The standard rings seemed to silence the stabilized keys just as well as the thicker rings without noticeably affecting key travel.

The modded HHKB is quieter than the original Type-S. The modded HHKB has standard silencing rings throughout plus the following additional things:

+ Lubed stabilizers and slider rails.
+ 55g domes.
+ 1/8-inch silicone sponge in the back of the case.
+ Additional rubber shock absorbers under the spacebar.

The only sound that I now get from the modded HHKB that might be regarded as undesirable is a bit of an intermittent metallic click from the spacebar. The spacebar sound seems to result from striking it with the left thumb. Next time I get inside a HHKB I will see what additional step(s) might be taken to provide additional silencing for the spacebar.

My testing of the silencing rings will include the Novatouch. The inside diameter of the rings will be just large enough to fit the NT sliders.

[TheNacho]

My testing of the silencing rings will include the Novatouch. The inside diameter of the rings will be just large enough to fit the NT sliders.

I like!

[Hypersphere]

Prototypes arrived at work yesterday. However, I was working from my home office and so I haven't seen them yet. I hope to have some time for preliminary testing this week. If the rings appear to check out, I will place an order and conduct a more thorough test by doing a complete installation in a HHKB and making recordings. Based on your responses thus far and taking my own keyboards into account, I am thinking of ordering 1750 rings.

[Muirium]

Mind the stabs.

[Hypersphere]

Mind the stabs.

On the HHKB Pro 2, the only stabilized keys are the Enter/Return, Left Shift, and Spacebar. I used the same rings on these keys as the ones on the standard keys, and silencing seems fine. In fact, my DIY silenced HHKB is a bit quieter than a stock Type-S HHKB. I haven't yet tried silencing an RF board, but I anticipate similar results.

[Muirium]

Fair enough. But a lot of demand for these rings is coming from NovaTouch users, who need them most. The damped mods I have on mine are a huge improvement. I haven't found an ideal way to tackle the stabs, though.

Using some self-adhesive pads Cookie sent me, I've managed to damp down the spacebar so much it's amazingly quiet, but the friction is too great and the spacebar is visibly slow to return to the top. Doesn't actually affect typing, but feels wrong to me!

[Hypersphere]

I've been inside HHKBs and RFs, but I have not yet been inside my Novatouch. I hope to get to this within the next two weeks, at which time I will see if I can figure out ways to silence the stabilizers other than putting a ring on the central plunger and lubricating moving parts in the stabilizer mechanism.

As an aside, I have come to appreciate the wire stabilizers on KBP V60 Matias-switch keyboards. Crisp and even response no matter where you strike the key -- and with no rattle, including the spacebar.

[slackface]

I'll have to apologize. I'll have to drop out of the interest list due to moneyissues. Sorry, and good luck with the IC.

[Hypersphere]

@slackface: Thanks for letting me know. I certainly understand. No need to apologize.

I've had a bit of a setback. I had high hopes for some ultrathin materials (0.10 mm and 0.15 mm), but preliminary testing of rings cut from these materials indicated insufficient damping. I am now having some prototypes made that are 0.30 mm thick. This is closer to the thickness of rings from a silenced RF and a Type-S HHKB. However, it appears that the 0.30 mm material might be available only with an adhesive layer; if this turns out to be the case, I will need to determine if adhesive would be useful, detrimental, or neutral for the functioning of the rings.

As soon as I receive the 0.30 mm prototypes, I will test them as soon as possible. To do really thorough tests before going for a large production run, I will see if I can get an initial small run to do a complete keyboard and make audio recordings. I will keep everyone posted.

[barkweed]

Anything that can silence my annoyingly noisy NovaTouch is welcome, so if this works out, I'm in!

[Stabilized]

As soon as I receive the 0.30 mm prototypes, I will test them as soon as possible. To do really thorough tests before going for a large production run, I will see if I can get an initial small run to do a complete keyboard and make audio recordings. I will keep everyone posted.

Any updates to report? Did you ever get the new prototypes through?

[sth]

i'm in

[chedda7]

I'm in for 215.

[IonutZ]

I'm in for 132 @ 0.75 or 215 @ 0.60