Laptop Keyboards

[Ace]

So, lately I’ve been thinking of buying a laptop. I love my PC to death; I do everything there, from schoolwork to gaming to typing forum posts. But even I can recognize the need to have a device that you can take with you when you need to leave the house.

I decided on buying something slim, an Ultrabook (or maybe even a Chromebook) that’s powerful enough to get work done. I start looking around, and after a while, I’m pretty confident I want a MacBook Air. It’s a pretty well rounded machine. And since next week is Apple’s Spring event, I can be sure to grab the latest model.

But then something came to me: Apple’s laptops have those awful scissor keys. In fact, when I stopped to think about it properly, I realized that the vast majority of Ultrabooks have similar keys. As do Chromebooks. To be honest, this disturbed me for only a few minutes before I got over it. I mean, it’s not like there are any laptops out there with mechanical boards. But I stopped right there. How do I know that? I’m not an expert on laptops. The simple solution? This. Simply make a thread asking which laptops have mechanical switches, if any. And if none exist, which laptop’s board feels the best? I remember my father telling me a year or so back that he loved the Lenovo Thinkpad series mostly due to their robust keyboard. If it weren’t for that, he’s have switched to a Macbook Air ages ago. I found this ironic, considering that he’s attacked my hoppy more than once in the past. He described the Thinkpad boards as having a “tactile bump” on each keypress.

Essentially, even though I doubt that there are any reasonable laptops out there that include a mechanical board, I know that some laptop boards are better than others. Which laptop can you recommend as far as key feel goes?

[Stabilized]

I have to admit that the best feeling laptop keyboard I have used has been my Macbook pro.

If you're looking for a laptop with mechanical keys then this is the only one available to my knowledge:
http://www.msi.com/product/nb/GT80-2QE- ... o-overview


Alternatively you could just carry around a 60% board and have any laptop you want

[Ace]

I have to admit that the best feeling laptop keyboard I have used has been my Macbook pro.

If you're looking for a laptop with mechanical keys then this is the only one available to my knowledge:
http://www.msi.com/product/nb/GT80-2QE- ... o-overview


Alternatively you could just carry around a 60% board and have any laptop you want

Being a tech junkie like I am, I have heard of (and seen) that board, but I think you already know it's not gonna happen.

The 60% idea is one I've had, and may do, but the majority of the time I use this, it'll be on my lap (shocker, right ?). That'll kinda make it a tough option.

I am quite curious though: you said your Macbook Pro had the best feeling keys? I may be mistaken, but doesn't it have chiclet keys similar to the Air? That's really interesting..........I'll have to vist an Apple Store and feel one for myself.

Unless anyone else knows of any laptops with mechanicals, the search from here on out is basically to identify the laptop with finest feeling rubber dome board.

[Muirium]

As Andy and me were just discussing, the MacBook Air and Pro's ancestor — the PowerBook — had better keyboards.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/can ... ml#p214566

My 15" Retina MBP's weakest point is its keyboard. Which is annoying indeed as it's a mobile machine. I often pop my HHKB over the trackpad and type, but that's no way to live! (The 15 incher is perfectly sized for modern TKLs to fit across like the NovaTouch, but they feel like they double its weight!) My next Mac is a retina iMac for sure. Then I can use every board in my collection.

Sure you need a laptop over a tablet?

[andrewjoy]

I don't get it, cherry ML are still in production right ? why does nobody use them ? Sure they are thick but with modern batteries and SOC's you could make a laptop the thickness of the 13 inch MPB, with some crazy powerful ARM ( for example the latest tegra) and still fit in the nice keyboard. And you would still have space for a real ethernet port

[scottc]

I think I'd probably prefer a nice, crisp scissor switch (like an old Thinkpad) than a crappy Cherry ML. They just don't do it for me.

[andrewjoy]

each to his own i guess, i prefer ML over almost every other none liner cherry switch.

[Muirium]

Space invaders were designed to be low profile. The switch tucks right into the caps — though those aren't anything like as flat as ML's. Yet space invaders wound up used in desktop boards, exclusively far as I know!

They're superb. Better than MX, let alone ML. About half the overall height of MX, caps included. So quite a bit thicker than my MacBook Pro here!

[bhtooefr]

The problem is that laptops are having to be thinner and thinner. An entire 15" MacBook Pro Retina is 18 mm thick. Now consider that Lexmark's Model M6 ("buckling rubber sleeve" in our vernacular, although Lexmark simply called it rubber dome) family was 11 mm thick with 2.5 mm travel. Lexmark tried to go thinner with scissor-stabilized transverse buckling spring, mind you, but it didn't work out.

Note that the MBPR has a motherboard under its keyboard, too.

I do think that better laptop keyboards can be done than the current scissor-stabilized rubber dome state of the art, but it'll involve magnetics, I think.

[Muirium]

Yup. The way I'd do it is with capsense reading the position of the cliclet caps in realtime, and when movement is detected push a little force under it with an electromagnet, approximating a spring. Then when the activation point is hit, let it go. I'm not sure what that would be like to type on — the tiny travel in modern boards puts a hard limit on their effective tactility I think — but it'd be a nice experiment to try.

[Firebolt1914]

In my opinion the ThinkPad keyboards are the best I've used when it comes to laptop keyboards, however only the older ones.

[scottc]

Yep, agreed. The chiclet ones are utter rubbish. I went from a newer Thinkpad (X121e) to an older (X201) and the difference in the keyboard is very noticeable. I hear that the T60's keyboard is even better. I've got an X60 and X61 but don't remember a marked difference between them and my X201. I'll have to dig them out to try at some point.

[Muirium]

I'm guessing the keyboards aren't interchangeable.

Ah, I remember when PCs prided themselves on that. Clunky, hell yeah. But swappable? You bet.

[andrewjoy]

Yep, agreed. The chiclet ones are utter rubbish. I went from a newer Thinkpad (X121e) to an older (X201) and the difference in the keyboard is very noticeable. I hear that the T60's keyboard is even better. I've got an X60 and X61 but don't remember a marked difference between them and my X201. I'll have to dig them out to try at some point.

my x61 is very nice for a laptop keyboard that is

[jacobolus]

Here you go, a laptop with Cherry MX blue: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bondwell-B200/151610233361

[Evilcamels]

I have a Surface Pro and I love it. I can just carry around a trackpad and my FC660M or Minitouch. If you are OK with the high costs, its a great route to go for a keyboard enthusiast.

[Muirium]

Yeah, ironically the tablet form factor makes a lot of sense for keyboard people, as you get to choose what to put in front of the computer. With an appropriate stand for the screen, of course. The Surface's home advantage!

Wouldn't catch me using one of the things though. I need to cobble something up for my old iPad…

[Ace]

It's not a bad idea, but it comes back to the two reasons that convinced me not to buy a Surface the moment reviews started coming out.
1. It's too fracking expensive. For the price of the i7 version, I can get a more powerful MacBook Pro (or an Ultrabook with a GPU).
2. It's not feasible. Regardless of how much Microsoft's improved the design, it still has flaws to grave to be overlooked. Using something like a Poker with that would merely add to these issues.

I'm looking forward to the Surface 4, but the three is a little to steep to be worth it to me. Plus, removing the keyboard cover would literally tender the Surface useless as a laptop. I think what some of you guess are forgetting is that I'll be using this in my lap, not in a solid surface, necessarily.

As for the suggestion about a tablet, yes, I have one. I love my iPad to death; the majority of my YouTube viewing (and trust me, my YouTube viewing is pretty large) is done on it. A laptop won't be attempting to fill that niche either.

There's still the main question no one's been able to answer: which modern laptop has the (comparably) best keyboard. Obviously I won't get close to Mech feel, but there's gotta be at least one favored more than the rest of the heap.

[Muirium]

Good point about the Surface: it really requires one to shine!

For what it's worth, a Kishsaver is heavy enough to keep an iPad steady while typing on your lap. It's also heavy enough to feel like a 17 inch laptop in its own little right! Model Fs in general are promising candidates for that stand I mean to make. They have a lip for propping documents on, or holding pens, and it's deep enough to hold an iPad well; I just need a second point at the back. But then again I'm thinking of desks rather than squeezed laps!

[bhtooefr]

I'm actually not a big fan of the T60 keyboard, but I loved my X61 Tablet's keyboard as far as laptops go, partially because of the 18.5 mm pitch.

As far as my favorite feeling scissor-stabilized laptop keyboard, that'd have to be an old Latitude CPi A366xt that I found. Blows every ThinkPad I've had out of the water. Shame it had no pointing stick, and a Pentium II.

[zuglufttier]

I used a T60 and a X200s for some years and both had nice keyboards as far as laptops go...

I never used a laptop with a better keyboard than that. It's like finding a laptop with a good display

[bhtooefr]

Good displays on laptops are easy, I'm using one right now.

The keyboard's shit, though...

[dvorak]

As far as my favorite feeling scissor-stabilized laptop keyboard, that'd have to be an old Latitude CPi A366xt that I found. Blows every ThinkPad I've had out of the water. Shame it had no pointing stick, and a Pentium II.

I thought I was the only one!! I still have a CPi banging around that I occasionally use with a PCMCIA WiFi adapter for terminal stuff. The SVGA res is really awful, but the keyboard is unbeatable. Also has some weird Marvell video card that makes drivers a pain.

[Compgeke]

I think I have the Inspiron variation of that in the garage somewhere, no power cord though. It's not bad, just a tad scratchy from all the dust mine has.

I'm quite a fan of the keyboards on my Thinkpad 560X and Precision M60. They're the best two laptop keyboards I've ever used.

The worst has to be those HP DV6s and crap with what feels like plastic bottle switches. They're so heavy and unstable I think a plastic bottle might be a better switch.

[zts]

I gave up on built-in laptop keyboards; I use them when I have to and trying not to pay attention on how they feel. The best laptop keyboards ... the least unpleasant, that is, I had was with Thinkpad z60m (this one was probably the best one but the graphics freezing/problems with the laptop itself made me use it less), older MacBook Pro Titanium (used this one lots), and ASUS G1. There was some promising keyboards, like MSI gaming series laptop, but too much flex on the right side. The worst case scenario is to get a totally sucky keyboard with lots of flex ... makes you dislike the laptop ... the mushiness galore. Anyways, something that's the least disappointing from current offerings and easily carried around is probably MacBook Air. I'd consider Surface Pro 3 and then attach your own KB ... if they fix the yellowing of the screen problems (seems like a glue problem between glass layers).

[Muirium]

Having just watched Apple's keynote live stream, I'm keen to try out one of the new 12" MacBooks. They've ditched scissor switches over rubber domes and gone instead to butterfly mechanisms over metal domes. I don't see anything on the website about it yet, but the slow motion typing video they showed looked compelling. The travel is absolutely minimal, of course, but this could well be the most precise feeling keyboard on a portable now.

The pressure sensitive trackpad is also intriguing. Take a look at one when they show up.

[scottc]

Having just watched Apple's keynote live stream, I'm keen to try out one of the new 12" MacBooks. They've ditched scissor switches over rubber domes and gone instead to butterfly mechanisms over metal domes. I don't see anything on the website about it yet, but the slow motion typing video they showed looked compelling. The travel is absolutely minimal, of course, but this could well be the most precise feeling keyboard on a portable now.

The pressure sensitive trackpad is also intriguing. Take a look at one when they show up.

That sounds excellent! 12" and retina is exactly what I need.

[bhtooefr]

I'm suspecting that it'll feel a lot like an HP calculator, which is not a bad thing.

[Muirium]

Yeah, my instincts tell me sharp and snappy. Which is a major improvement on the chiclet board in my 15 MBP. There's also an LED under every key now, like backlit mechs. Though they didn't show any Ducky style Christmas tree lighting effects!

[robo]

I'm suspecting that it'll feel a lot like an HP calculator, which is not a bad thing.

I think that would be too much of a departure from what people are used to (it's been 15 years since I pressed an HP calculator button, but IIRC they had quite a hard 'snap' and required considerable force... also they were hinged from the bottom, which was interesting...). I imagine that the actuation force required will be in the ballpark of Apple's current rubber dome scissor switch boards and I doubt they'll make an audible snap.

It's not posted separately yet, but as an aside, even if you hate laptop keyboards/laptops/Apple/Jony Ive, you owe it to yourself to watch Apple's intro video for the new laptop. Hardware (and keyboard) porn at its finest.

EDIT: here it is - Quicktime link