[IC] it is coming... SA RETRO!

[zts]

Ladies and Gents it is finally coming! ...



Thoughts? ...

Looks good to me. Here are some shots of RF standard and HiPro keys in rows so you can approximate the angles and size differences. (white is standard; grey is hipro)

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topre_keys_1.jpeg (248.14 KiB) Viewed 5082 times

topre_keys_2.jpeg (161.98 KiB) Viewed 5082 times

topre_keys_4.jpeg (255.56 KiB) Viewed 5082 times

Note that the middle column in HiPro the caps are the same size as in the F row (like arrows, Delete, Insert, Print Screen caps); same with the dedicated numpad.

[beltet]

I think I heard Round5b....
Anyway, I think 7bit is on the right track. Same profile as Round 5 would be more rgonomic. But I don't own any SA caps until I get my round 5.
Anyway I problaby will buy your set this time aswell matt3o.
I was furiated that I missed Granite R1 and DSA Retro.
Just love your designs. Problably because your italian

[Muirium]

Intriguing, put against regular Topre caps, HiPro is more like SA than I imagined. It even uses the same rows as SA! Using SP's numbering: row 1 is the most forward leaning (the number row), row 3 is neutral (the home row) and row 4 leans back. SP has a nice diagram of it here:



In fact, Round 5 also uses the same HiPro trick of flat row 3 function keys:



But HiPro has a few more up its sleeve. First and foremost: dyesub PBT, naturally! But also there's the real matching row 4 Shift keys. See my photo on the first page of this thread to see what row 3 mods are like on row 4. It's okay, but not great. And then, finally, there's the bottom row on HiPro. That spacebar! It even seems to complement those flat "row 3" mods! Perhaps because it better matches the alphas' curve?

Again, a straight neutral tilt row 3 lineup down there is acceptable but not as cool.

[pyrelink]

I was so insanely close to buying an after market set of DSA Retro a little while ago. I will definitely not pass this one up. Can't wait, Matt3o.

[Madhias]

Additional mod colors which fit to Retro would be nice, like orange, yellow, red - you know, the 70s

[matt3o]

this is NOT final.

just to get feedback! We miss a lot of kits of course. Don't worry I'll put them back.

[ramnes]

Just add a 1.75 shift and 10/10 would buy.

[benichka]

Nice!
I'm definitely in !

[Supergeek]

I am definitely in, just not for the coffee keys or brown mods. An Amiga logo key would be cool, too, but pie in the sky.

[Mal-2]

I'm the type who wants to be able to change keys around between layouts. I'd be accepting of a native Dvorak set, but would prefer something that isn't flat (say, SA Row 4) because I do use the legs on my keyboard. It seems that every GB assumes QWERTY, perhaps with fill-ins allowed for AZERTY and QWERTZ. I can understand why, there aren't that many of us using Dvorak (and Colemak will probably eventually overtake us), but I'm totally incapable of putting a QWERTY set to good use.

That is why I generally just don't respond to the GB threads at all, but I figured I'd at least point out what the problem is for some of us. If there was a set where the alpha area is totally row-agnostic, the Dvorakites and Colemaniacs among us could jump on the bandwagon.

[scottc]

Well matt3o did mention the possibility of an all-row3 setup, which would suit Dvorak well.

[Mal-2]

Well matt3o did mention the possibility of an all-row3 setup, which would suit Dvorak well.

All row 3 would be a good start, at least as good as the all-the-same keys on cheap rubber domes (where I don't feel the key profiles are the real problem). Row 4 would be nice for angled keyboards though, simulating the slanted stems design. The direction of the movement will always be subtly different, but this is not something a mere replacement of keys can hope to address.

I also like to try small tweaks to a layout, like incorporating the Colemak "CapsLock is now Backspace" idea into any layout (never got used to it, though it's a perfectly valid idea), and am currently trying a tweak to Dvorak to eliminate one of its primary annoyances: I'm swapping L and -. In stock ANSI Dvorak, the only letter in the entire alphabet that requires me to lift my hand is L. As a consequence, I type S or R a lot instead. I don't really have a problem with lifting for ' in the other hand, so I don't see lifting for - as a huge problem either. I guess punctuation has a slightly different mindset to it.

The real problem with the stretch to L has been that it probably has been the single biggest factor preventing me from being able to truly touch-type. The lift gets me out of position, and next thing I know, I'm typing absolute garbage. I'm constantly glancing down for safety on certain letter combinations.

(I know, I know, Colemak. But this seems like a much simpler remedy.)

OT, I know, but you can see why I want a row-agnostic key set.

[SL89]

those mockups look great matt3o.

Also R3, Filco-like Filco-on-steroids are all (or almost) completely compliant for alternative layouts like Colemak right? I don't imagine they switch the numrow and F keys too much. I use my Filco set as my daily driver (since i switched from DSA) and I know its not super sculpted, but it still is very nice to use and if anything is just as true to the whole Retro vibe.

[Mal-2]

those mockups look great matt3o.

Also R3, Filco-like Filco-on-steroids are all (or almost) completely compliant for alternative layouts like Colemak right? I don't imagine they switch the numrow and F keys too much.

F-keys, no, but the numrow does not remain completely unchanged. Dvorak moves the [ ] keys from Row 2 to Row 1, - from Row 1 to Row 3, and = from Row 1 to Row 2.

Red keys are those that jump from one row to another relative to QWERTY.

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dv-jump.png (19.33 KiB) Viewed 4914 times

[matt3o]

optimistically we would sell 300-400 sets. Of those 5-10 would probably be dvorak and colemak kits (=they wouldn't tip). Very simply put, there's not enough market. As there's not enough market for Portuguese or Greek (but also Italian and French are always at risk).

I tried to contact colemak and dvorak communities at the times of DSA retro (flat layout, easy to mix), I got exactly zero replies.

[7bit]

There would be quite some market for Greek, because a lot of non-Greek people would buy it!

[malcomkern]

Please incorporate a Colemak option, I would buy one (or two, or three to make it tip).

[GuilleAcoustic]

Interesting, I like SA profile. I dig the bicolor scheme better than the monochrome one.

[matt3o]

Please double, triple, quadruple check it.

We still miss: ergodox and international kit (we will have 3: UK, DE-IT-Nordic, FR)



These are the possible color combos:

Pure Retro


Limed


Plum


Sad man


I'm not sure about this last one. We'll see

[chzel]

I don't see a 7u spacebar, but I assume it will be there when time comes!
Plum with lime esc/enter will be delicious!

[Khers]

I don't see a 7u spacebar, but I assume it will be there when time comes!
Plum with lime esc/enter will be delicious!

Mmm, plum with lime!

[matt3o]

I don't see a 7u spacebar, but I assume it will be there when time comes!
Plum with lime esc/enter will be delicious!

yes we'll have spacebars in all sizes available at SP

[7bit]

I would remove that space bar from the alpha kit and indeed add 1, 1.5, 4, 6.25 and 7 units space bars.


Also:
Throw away those thin arrows!

[matt3o]

Throw away those thin arrows!

Those are from the C64 dude!

[matt3o]

Update!

[pandp]

Is it bad idea to ask blank Base Kit?

[SL89]

looking good matt3o, will there be an EXTRA pack like Granite?

[matt3o]

looking good matt3o, will there be an EXTRA pack like Granite?

what extras are you looking for?

Blanks? dunno. If there's more interest, sure.

[ramnes]

Could you add a R4 1u blank or ~` key with the small Shift on the Pro modifier kit?

[matt3o]

Could you add a R4 1u blank or ~` key with the small Shift on the Pro modifier kit?

sure! need explanation though